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Is rom-hacking on the decline?

Blah

Free supporter
1,924
Posts
11
Years
Absolutely. It's hard to make a great hack, and in these days, hacking standards have gone up and perhaps that intimidates new folks from joining in on the fun. Personally, I still do think the decline is mostly because less people are playing ROM Hacks. We get far fewer posts on the forums in this section now.
 

EricLostie

Banned
8
Posts
7
Years
  • Age 38
  • Seen Jun 6, 2023
Romhacking and fangames are definitively declining... I thing one of the reasons is that official Pokemon games are now in 3D, so people dont get that charmed about 2D old school-looking games.
 
2
Posts
6
Years
The biggest fear I have lingering in the back of my mind is that one day people will get bored of not just Pokemon Rom Hacks, but of Pokemon in general. I'm a weird person who always expects the worse, so this a really big unfounded fear I have.

That being said, I do think that at this point in time, the admiration and love for Pokemon and Pokemon Rom Hacking isn't going down. It's just that the tools and assets of Gen 3 haven't been completely disassembled to the point it's not as scary or intimidating to new comers.

I grew up with the 3rd gen games and hope that Rom Hacking this scene picks back up, but if it doesn't and people have moved on to Gen 4 and 5, so be it. I'm just grateful we're just getting some more Pokemon to play.
 

Deokishisu

Mr. Magius
989
Posts
18
Years
The biggest fear I have lingering in the back of my mind is that one day people will get bored of not just Pokemon Rom Hacks, but of Pokemon in general. I'm a weird person who always expects the worse, so this a really big unfounded fear I have.

That being said, I do think that at this point in time, the admiration and love for Pokemon and Pokemon Rom Hacking isn't going down. It's just that the tools and assets of Gen 3 haven't been completely disassembled to the point it's not as scary or intimidating to new comers.

I grew up with the 3rd gen games and hope that Rom Hacking this scene picks back up, but if it doesn't and people have moved on to Gen 4 and 5, so be it. I'm just grateful we're just getting some more Pokemon to play.

Hate to stoke your fear here, but if Game Freak continues on its trajectory of making content for the lowest common denominator, skimping out on meaningful postgame, and bogging down the main game with endless tutorials, Pokemon will only be played by very small children who will not want to go back to the "dark ages" of 2D games. Then, once the veteran hackers move on, there will be pretty much no one to hand the reins to and the hacking community splinters.
 
146
Posts
11
Years
  • CO
  • Seen Mar 16, 2023
I can see what you mean about the emulation @Blah...
The GBA in of its self is quite amazing for what it is capable of in the right programmers hands.

When it comes to Gen III games I don't think they will ever fully fall as there will always be some who find the games to be appealing. I my self like the sprites and tile based games over the 3D but that's just me and I'm sure I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I do agree though that when most come in to the modding seen they kinda do expect to make a hack as fast as possible and when they realize how much it really takes. They move on to something else...
Honestly, when you think about it.

Modding could be done quite fast with the right tools or tool...
Though lots of tools are quite outdated and the ones that where being made to replace them have pretty much stopped.
It would be amazing to have a Gen III IDE, as the better tools brings down the learning curve.
But I have seen it mentioned many times that each tool made, basically takes away from the real point of hacking/modding.

This is why you don't see to many patches or bases anymore.
Some Asm hacks(like the Ev-Iv-Screen) now require you to have a C dev environment to compile and install it. Ergo(for win user like me) Cygwin, Devkitpro, CMake ect... Not complaining at all as I personally don't mind, but for the ones who are not code savy but are writers and artists I can see the struggle.
Some people just want to make a good hack and not have to deal with all the technical aspects like those of us who do like trying to understand why everything works the way it does and how can we make it do what we want.
I say build them the tools and lets see what amazing fruits they create.

With things like MineCraft and so many other builder type games I can see Gen I, II and III being even more popular than ever if the community comes together in refining the documentation and tools all together.

There is quite a lot the Gen III games still have that haven't been even explored really.
From Multi-player(wireless and lan), Mini Games, and even using the Z80(where possible for sound) as some Gba games have done it.
I mean if you think about it, Pokemon JP Crystal had Mobile and Internet functionality!

That right there just shows what we could really do with the Gba and Gen III games all together.


As for Pokemon Declining, I would say it is becoming far more of a kids game and the newer games have lost appeal to me personally.
Again though if they do go with a more edgy anime and games that are not so dang predictable then I will take a look again. I can say with the Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon that didn't help their case in any way hahahaha
 
113
Posts
8
Years
  • Age 29
  • Seen Aug 3, 2023
I don't think Pokemon as a franchise will ever die, or decline for that matter. With each new game they release, there will ALWAYS be a new generation of people that play it. You just have to recognize that the 20-somethings that grew up playing FireRed are NOT the target audience, and haven't been for a long time now. Game Freak is targeting the new generation of kids that either haven't played Pokemon before or have just recently gotten into the series. That's why they can get away with recycling the same generic formula in every game they release (same goes for the anime).

Which brings me to my main point; I think the majority of people that hack Gen III are the people that played it at some point in their life. Now that we're moving into a generation of people that grew up with Gen IV, we're naturally seeing less interest in Gen III content. I take myself as an example. I hardly played the Gen II games, and the thought of hacking them is entirely unappealing to me because I grew up with Gen III. I'm sure a good majority of people that grew up with Gen IV feel the same. Problem is, Gen IV and beyond have hardly been touched. I think that until the community moves forward and starts exploring later generation games, we're going to continue to see a lack of interest in rom-hacking.
 
90
Posts
7
Years
I didn't think about it that way. My first Pok?mon game was a Gen IV (My fav!) but I still played all the generations and maybe even some rom hacks from Gen III. Played every gen (Gen I and II on emulators though), It could also possibly be because kids these days act like hacking is ALL bad. And hacking games mean getting Infinite lives and stuff. To some people rom hacking is just editing a game and not hacking because the only thing they can think of to hacking is The C0mmunity or guessing a Facebook account password. We just need to teach our kids (or other kids) that there is much more to hacking than it being illegal
 

JackHack96

Intrepid Hacker
121
Posts
11
Years
I don't consider myself a "veteran" ROM hacker, but I've grown up with Gen 1, and played them all till Gen 5 (I couldn't play Gen 6/7 because I don't have a 3DS), and I've started to explore ROM hacking around 2009. I can definitively say that at that time, hack ROM forums were way more vibrant (apart from PokeCommunity, which is international, there were a lot of dedicated forums, at least here in Italy, while now there are very few).
I was one of the first to think that Gen 3 hacking couldn't go for ever, that's why I started to hack on the DS, but it was a lot harder and limited than GBA hacking.
One of the main problem was -and actually is- mapping, with the Gen 4 came 3D graphic, which was such difficult to edit and it was nearly impossible before SDSME came (but it's still not easy.. sigh). That's why I wanted to help everyone by making DS hacking easier through easy-to-use tools.

Nowadays I'm struggling to find time for developing stuff, because university is very time-consuming, but I still have the same desire to help people renewing Pokèmon Hacking by going to newer platform, and I hope one day to hear people saying: "Hey guys, have you saw that new ROM hack? It's stunning and it's based on Pokemon Platinum!!"
 
13
Posts
7
Years
  • Age 28
  • Seen May 28, 2018
Sorry for the necrobump...I've been curious about this topic in general and wanted to see if anyone had updated opnions on this.

I think overall we've seen a shift from quantity to quality, wherein newcomers are easily deterred from outdated tools or not interested in gen 3 probably since they grew up with 4 or 5. However great hacks like the likes of Gaia are still being developed, just slower.

Also, where are we with gen 3 dissasembly. All the posts I see (from months to years ago) are all like "once it's done it'll be great" ...so... is it done? Did it happen?
 
1,906
Posts
15
Years
  • Age 30
  • Seen Oct 21, 2019
Gonna leave this open because I feel like it's a topic worth discussing.
I agree with your point on quality over quantity nowadays. It was definitely the opposite when I was active 10 years ago. Also I wanna say Pokeruby is like 90% complete and Pokeemerald is... idk probably just shy of 40% finished. Haven't been keeping up with that lately
 

Kyepha

~K Y E P H A~
19
Posts
6
Years
I remember about 10 years ago ROM Hacking was in its prime time, and we were getting more than ever! From serious projects, to just fun gimmick and meme games. I do miss those days, it was great to see everyone have easy access to unload their creativity on a passion project.

I agree that we see a lot more fan games than ROM Hacks nowadays. The market for passion projects, and the interest, has shifted I suppose. Since the rise of our currently most popular fan games, I have seen ROM Hacking decline, or at least not publicized as much anymore, which is a shame because I can think of a few ROM Hack gems that I'd love to see continued.

It has also been an interest with a particular age group. I notice that there are younger children brought into the world of Pokemon, and then they immediately turn to popular fan games, namely Brick Bronze, mostly because of their accessibility. Kids today aren't as confident sourcing and operating emulators which are usually a necessity when wanting to play a ROM Hack.

I personally hope that the core of ROM Hacking won't die out, but seeing where we are now I unfortunately see it a reality. The ROM Hack community won't die any time soon, but the market for it will.
 

Kyepha

~K Y E P H A~
19
Posts
6
Years
It was definitely the opposite when I was active 10 years ago.

Yeah, I agree, 10 years ago was a different time for ROM Hacking, now it's more about creating polished games rather the experimental things being created back then. Though I do prefer the ROM Hacking era from a decade ago.
 
32
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 34
  • Seen Jan 16, 2024
I think pokemon on a whole is facing a slow decline. It's hard to see right now, but I can see it.

1. The majority of the most passionate pokemon fans come from the RBY & GSC era

Most of these people are now grown up and even though they still love pokemon, they are tired of how repetitive and uninspired each new generation is. No real shifts in the rival+8 gyms+elite 4 +evil team formula.

2. Most competitive players and hard-core rom hackers are in their mid 20's--early 30's

When these people reach their late 20's, life will force the majority of them to drop pokemon to focus on more economically advantageous activities.
 

Yotes

GameDev
43
Posts
7
Years
I'm thinking it just got easier to use RPG maker and its a more versatile tool, so gamedev hobbyists lean to that more. As advanced tools get easier and easier to use, I bet we'll keep seeing a shift from ROM Hacks to RPG Maker fan games to Pokemon games made with free professional engines like Unity & Unreal.
 
10
Posts
10
Years
  • Age 30
  • Seen Jun 6, 2019
It will probably decline. These games are mostly nostalgic for people, and newer generations are not familiar with this. What's more, I suspect less people these days have even played the GBA games, or earlier.

Once there is a simple way for people to make hacks in the 3D style (XY/ORAS/SM), I think we'll see a pickup again.
 
10
Posts
6
Years
  • Age 30
  • Seen Oct 11, 2023
I don't think ROM hacking is on the decline, just shifting its focus. There's just so much you can do by using only the few games that are currently well understood. Hacks of Gen 7 have been made, but clearly show the process for doing so is in its infancy. Many new Pokemon fan games are custom-made for this reason.

There are better tools at our disposal now for creating Pokemon games (roughly) from scratch. There's no need to use the limited capabilities of official games anymore. I saw a thread about a Fire Red ROM base made in Essentials on these forums just the other day. There's also things like Pokemon Cobalt & Amethyst, a Minecraft map by Phoenix SC among others that uses command blocks and resource packs to create a whole new region complete with its own story and species. I think the well of creativity for Gen 3 hacks is just running dry.

If the community is to return to making fan games by modifying the official ones, it would most likely be the side games. They aren't quite as popular, but for that reason they've been basically untouched for all this time and have plenty of new features to explore and experiment on. I'm not saying there's going to be any Pokemon Ranger hacks anytime soon. Its styler gimmick probably wouldn't be too fun to go back to, especially on emulator. However the Orre games, the Mystery Dungeon series, and (though I haven't played it) maybe even Pokemon Conquest could offer such features.
 

Momoro

I'm gonna put some dirt in your eye..
269
Posts
4
Years
esperance Yes, I wasn't alive back then. NOW, I am currently creating about three Gen3 ROM Hacks, and ONE Gen4 or Gen5 Hack. So, I wouldn't say it's dead, but until I see a Sun/Moon hack(One with MULTIPLE REGIONS), I'll just call it 'Declining'

I completely agree. My whole "Not wanting to edit a DS ROM"-syndrome, would be because there isn't much DS-ROM-HACKING tools to use. Besides, I feel GBA is so much easier. I make my own tools, but I AM LIMITED :D I grew up with Gen IV, and I actually really, really miss it. 3d games are just trash(Pokemon, I mean.) They wreck the whole thing, IMO. SoulSilver was always my favorite, and when Black/White(1&2) came out, they were fun too. But then came X & Y.... That's when Pokemon made their mistake by making the game 3d/2d. I miss the old pixel feel to the game. AND I HONESTLY AM PREDICTING THAT THE NEXT POKEMON GAME AFTER SWORD/SHIELD IS GOING TO BE A Virtual-Reality THING, AND THAT MAKES ME JUST WANT TO QUIT. I will always love Gen IV, and will try any hacks people make. GEN 5(and lower) FOREVERRRR!!!!
 
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