The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

Is it okay that the link QK posted kinda frustrates me? I mean, I know that it's one of those pieces that are meant to be read by the religious folks who have a problem with gay people and that it's going to have to use their language to help them. I accept that even if I don't like it. But some of the stuff on #4 really bugged me. Like comparing homosexuality to a mental disorder. I know that's not what it was saying, but it makes a parallel and it's probably easy to get the message distorted. And the line: "To put it simply, the gay man's brain was shaped the way a straight woman's brain is, whereas a gay woman's brain was shaped the way a straight man's is." - that's reinforcing the idea that a gay man is something like a "woman in a man's body." That's not even a good description of a trans person, let alone a gay person.

Okay, rant over.

Scarf said:

Is it okay that the link QK posted kinda frustrates me? I mean, I know that it's one of those pieces that are meant to be read by the religious folks who have a problem with gay people and that it's going to have to use their language to help them. I accept that even if I don't like it. But some of the stuff on #4 really bugged me. Like comparing homosexuality to a mental disorder. I know that's not what it was saying, but it makes a parallel and it's probably easy to get the message distorted. And the line: "To put it simply, the gay man's brain was shaped the way a straight woman's brain is, whereas a gay woman's brain was shaped the way a straight man's is." - that's reinforcing the idea that a gay man is something like a "woman in a man's body." That's not even a good description of a trans person, let alone a gay person.

Okay, rant over.

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[butting in this convo] I don't know all about it, definitely not. But I know that love is all about chemicals in the brain, and pheromones which mainly attract people to eachother. The male brain responds to copulin which are female pheromones, and vice versa does the female brain respond to androstenone which are male pheromones. In this case, considering homosexuality,

"To put it simply, the gay man's brain was shaped the way a straight woman's brain is, whereas a gay woman's brain was shaped the way a straight man's is."

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this doesn't sound that strange. It might have been worded strangely, but I don't think at all that it is that strange of a claim.

:/ I don't think people should focus on "If you're born that way or if you're conditioned that way" sort of thing. Nor should people focus on a few phrases in a book written well over 1000 years ago. Seriously the bible is a massive text and if all people are gonna take from it is "homosexuality is wrong" then I really think they need to revisit what the bible actually stands for.

No offense but I rather people spend money researching cures for diseases rather than these studies. People who are hating are just going to keep hating regardless of scientific evidence because they already have their own adgendas. Forget em!

Just like who you want to like and be done with it : |.. Don't be judgin'! That's what I say!

Scientifically speaking, that's only the result of one study and hence not incredibly reliable. I know there have been studies of brain activity that supposedly show lesbian women think more like a man, and gay men more like a woman, but still I don't think the evidence is overwhelming. There are millions of homosexual men and women all over the world, and I don't think the results of a few small tests really proves anything. A scientific study is more reliable when you have representative sample, and that would be very hard, probably close to impossible, to get.

And you kind of just have too look around to know there are feminine lesbians and masculine gays. If you're a very masculine or feminine person I don't think your brain could show the opposite. Unless I'm missing something.

Not that I think it particularly matters. Whether or not it's proven scientifically that I think like a woman (although in my case that's probably at least partly true!) I'm not not going to change the way I act or who I am.

Might I be able to join? I'm someone who doesn't have even the vaguest clue as to what my sexuality is, & something is telling me that I might find answers in here.

Toujours said:

Like I said to Andy a bit ago over irc, I apologize on behalf of Catholicism.

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well this is a bit of a downer.
technically, he is also criticizing single moms and dads because, "apparently", a child should be brought up with the traditional tandem -- the mother and the father.
also, deeply disappointed because a professor i HIGHLY respect actually agrees with the Pope's views here. of course, this doesn't make him any less of a good teacher, but still... :-(

Welcome, Blade_of_darkness! I'm glad you decided to join us :)

@Toujours' article, I have never felt more disgusted and never more correct in my wariness of Catholicism and of religion in general. One quote I found rather hilarious was this:

One leading opponent of gay marriage in the United States is New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, whom the pope will elevate to cardinal next month.

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I have to wonder why he's being elevated to cardinal. Is it perhaps that he has done so well in his fight against equality that he has earned a promotion?

Dolan fought against gay marriage before it became legal in New York state last June, and in September he sent a letter to President Barack Obama criticizing his administration's decision not to support a federal ban on gay marriage.In that letter Dolan, who holds the powerful post of president of the U.S. Bishops Conference, said such a policy could "precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions."

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Yep, that was exactly the reason. I love how the Catholic Church works lol.

Some Churches that have allowed gay marriage, women priests, gay clergy and gay bishops have been losing members to Catholicism, and the Vatican has taken steps to facilitate their conversion.

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So basically it has become the dumping ground of the bigots who refuse to evolve with their own religions. One giant exclusive club for those who hate under the guise of love.

I've never understood this idea that needing a "functioning family unit" is an opposition to gay marriage, or against gay couples having children. Parents get divorced quite often these days, and I'm sure most of those children develop fine, I mean my parents are divorced and that's never caused me any kind of problems. Moreover, people argue that you need both a mother and father figure. Why? Single parents often raise children alone (I have friends testament to this) and the lack of male or female influence doesn't necessarily affect them.

A bunch of old, family-less, closeted and self-hating gay men are talking to us about raising children? Please.

I'd like to be able to pity them, but they're old enough to know better so they don't have any excuses for this kind of behavior. When children throw tantrums you're not supposed to give in to them so I don't know why anyone pays any attention to these whiny bastards when they complain that things aren't going the way they want them to.

Oh, sorry. I think I just got vitriol all over the thread.

Pikapal642 said:

-sigh- You know, I can see why gay Christians become atheists. :\

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To be fair I don't think labeling Christians all under that banner is totally fair. There are a lot of Christians who are completely supportive of gay rights, and even campaign for them. Which I'm sure you are /do. And Christians can obviously be gay, too.

You didn't offend me! I'm not Christian, myself. I just think it's quite important to highlight that there are a lot of Christians who are forward-thinking compared to the old-fashioned stance the leaders of the Catholic church take.

Pikapal642 said:

What I mean is that, while you do hear a lot of Christians being supportive

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I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.

Scarf said:

A bunch of old, family-less, closeted and self-hating gay men are talking to us about raising children? Please.

I'd like to be able to pity them, but they're old enough to know better so they don't have any excuses for this kind of behavior. When children throw tantrums you're not supposed to give in to them so I don't know why anyone pays any attention to these whiny bastards when they complain that things aren't going the way they want them to.

Oh, sorry. I think I just got vitriol all over the thread.

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I love you. I don't care if you're a woman, marry me.

Scarf said:

Pikapal642 said:

while you do hear a lot of Christians being supportive

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I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.

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Actually this is a great point. For all the people who have posted in here saying that there are a lot of Christians who are supportive of homosexuality (and I'm not disputing it, I'm sure they exist somewhere) I've never seen it once with my own eyes outside of the Internet. In my experience, religion has truly become synonymous with intolerance and I haven't once seen anything in my own life which contradicts that.

The closest I've ever seen is the "hate the sin, not the sinner" fallacy which quite frankly is just not good enough.

Pikapal642 said:

-sigh- You know, I can see why gay Christians become atheists. :\ There's just no feeling welcome anywhere. ;__; And it's **** like this that made me question my Christianity growing up. ;__;

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i think it all comes down to what you really believe in. even though some of my "brothers and sisters in faith" are disagreeable, the community itself shouldn't discourage me from calling myself a christian. it's what i believe in that should define me as a christian, not my community.

Scarf said:

I actually don't hear this much at all. Sometimes, yeah, but most of the support I see and hear about comes from people who are non-religious or only slightly religious.

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i've heard of several anglican and protestant churches that are pretty liberal minded and embrace the lgbtq* community. :-)
i really think that, for christianity as a whole, it's just catholicism that's remaining inflexible when it comes to topics like these.