Where is racism today?

I've personally never seen racism, apart from when it is accidental, which is generally funny and doesn't have any malicious intent. However little I may have seen racism, TV and the media seem to argue otherwise. There was a TV show on a while ago, where some British white people had to live with some foreign people, to see what their life was like. One of the english people wanted to take his partner to the pub, but when he got there, his partner refused. Apparently he had been attacked, and almost killed by the people who were in there, just because he was not British.

I think it is horrible that some people can harm others like this, but I'm glad that now, it is no longer considered acceptable to be racist. Often if I am talking to a black person, that I don't know, I will be very conscious of what I am saying as not to offend. Though this can turn out to be awkward and embarrassing, I think it does show that most people do not want to offend, and they know that racism is wrong.

Also, in Britain we have a group called the EDL (English Defence League), who are openly racist. Honestly, I think this just shows racism in a worse light. Most of the people in the EDL are... not the brightest sparks in the world. You can tell by the way they talk and act, that they are clearly uneducated, and end up telling the country: if you're racist, you're probably thick!

Hackbird64 said:

Also, in Britain we have a group called the EDL (English Defence League), who are openly racist. Honestly, I think this just shows racism in a worse light. Most of the people in the EDL are... not the brightest sparks in the world. You can tell by the way they talk and act, that they are clearly uneducated, and end up telling the country: if you're racist, you're probably thick!

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Just like the KKK in the US. Although the group has shrunk considerably, they're still around. In fact, my friend posted a picture on Facebook when she went to the park and saw that they were having a meet and greet. Let's just say, there weren't that many people there.

I haven't seen much racism either. In fact, I can't think of an instance on which I've seen it first hand. Of course, there's the media stories, but those can often get blown out of proportion and exaggerated just to make it more heart-wrenching.

The KKK isn't as bad though. They threaten but rarely harm - they just still believe in the white supremacy concept that arose with Eugenics. But they're much more docile now. Though they think of other races as under them, they don't chase down and slaughter people anymore. After all, many people in the KKK now are generally normal members of society - they don't train in martial arts or anything, so they just do protests and try to "get the word out".

Yes, they're racist, but their racism is based on logic. Not stupidity.

Rezilia said:

The KKK isn't as bad though. They threaten but rarely harm - they just still believe in the white supremacy concept that arose with Eugenics. But they're much more docile now. Though they think of other races as under them, they don't chase down and slaughter people anymore. After all, many people in the KKK now are generally normal members of society - they don't train in martial arts or anything, so they just do protests and try to "get the word out".

Yes, they're racist, but their racism is based on logic. Not stupidity.

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Even though hate speech and intimidation cause considerable psychological distress? I never thought I'd see a post defending the KKK and calling them logical in my life. Stop the world, I want to get off.

Slayr231 said:

Racism isn't just against non-whites anymore. In today's society, people are much more prone to react to racism when it's targeted towards a minority group. Especially when a white person says it. If a minority makes the same remark, hardly anyone notices. Don't worry, I have another example.

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ooh yeah

In the tv show "Criminal Minds", most of the criminals are shown as being white people. In fact, over half of the people arrested in similar crimes in the real world are black (not trying to sound racist here). No one really notices this because racism against whites is somewhat okay in today's society. I bet that if the show portrayed these statistics in their show, people would be all over how the show is racist.

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drink those

I'm really not trying to sound racist here, but rather trying to bring up a point that not all racism is against the minorities and that the media can't always be trusted. I sure hope it came out that way.

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white tears

Magic Christmas Lights said:

Even though hate speech and intimidation cause considerable psychological distress? I never thought I'd see a post defending the KKK and calling them logical in my life. Stop the world, I want to get off.

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And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.

I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.

#learnyourhistory

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Sure, they cause psychological distress, but so does having a car's BRIGHT @$$ HEADLIGHTS come up right behind me when I'm walking at night. And I'm nocturnal, so yes, there IS a reason why I do my walks at night.

The KKK's psychological distress is nothing compared to the majority of fake propaganda put on news channels or the random creepypasta things you find all-throughout the web.

Rezilia said:

And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.

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are you declaring eugenics logical

like

ok goebbels

I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.

#learnyourhistory

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it only seems like whites have made the most advancements because that is the biased culture you have been raised to believe in

#learnyournonbiasednoneurocentrichistory

Rezilia said:

And I pretty much expected a post which declared the KKK's actions to not be logical.

Yes, they are. Eugenics operated under the idea that purity of race helped each race better act to their own accord - for whites, this meant the recent advances in the world's culture for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS were based on purity of race and white supremacy. Thus, LOGIC.

I'm not saying that IS why whites HAVE made the most advances - only slightly more than Asia, though - in the past 2,000 years, but it's why the KKK think they have. Thus, LOGIC.

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Well yeah, in the way you're putting it most of the things in the world are logical. People will justify their actions along an assumption. I mean, does purity of race help each race act better? that's certainly debatable, and for me it's illogical. You can look at the most powerful country in the world, the United States benefiting from different races and people working together. It attracts the best and brightest - the elite - from all of the world, as well it will continue growing economically due to population growth from immigration while the European countries must fight a shrinking population.

Eugenics in a way is very logical. Removing the genetically "undesirable" would help a lot of the genetic defects be selected out of our gene pool. Of course, dignity for the individual and human rights prevents it from taking any form. Your argument about eugenics being logical is only rational in this sense. Racial eugenics doesn't really work. Also, while arguing how something is logical may be valid, it doesn't really mean anything, because most people justify their actions on something - whether that justification is reasonable or not is another story.

Rezilia said:

Sure, they cause psychological distress, but so does having a car's BRIGHT @$$ HEADLIGHTS come up right behind me when I'm walking at night. And I'm nocturnal, so yes, there IS a reason why I do my walks at night.

The KKK's psychological distress is nothing compared to the majority of fake propaganda put on news channels or the random creepypasta things you find all-throughout the web.

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That's just being ignorant. Decades of lynching and racial violence do not simply go away because the police go after them today. And MCL's right, hate speech and intimidation are big. It feels like everybody is targeting you, and whatever they do, they can get away with it. That's the power of hate speech and intimidation - it feels like there's a system bent to destroy you. I'm not sure if fake propaganda or creepypasta would be that threatening, honestly, it certainly is a lot less palpable and tangible.

Rezilia said:

#learnyourhistory

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Don't we tolerate enough of your shenanigans? You can make great posts as long as you're not watering it down with crap like this.

Also I'm pretty sure the Chinese were much further advanced not only technologically but even in per capita terms (which is impressive, considering the Ming Dynasty had a population of over 300 million. All of Europe had, what, less than 100 million? The Chinese Empire grew/ate themselves to relative collapse) until around the 1400's ;) Take white supremacy back to the Dark Ages and the rest of the world can point their fingers and laugh :P

BlahISuck said:

That's just being ignorant. Decades of lynching and racial violence do not simply go away because the police go after them today.

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Thus, why I said, they aren't AS MUCH a threat in the PRESENT DAY. I understand they were more a threat in the past. Now, they're just empty words.

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So you're wanting to do a societal advancement race here? Heheheheh...

Goody. Just so you know, I DID say Asia was right behind Europe in the past 2,000 years. But sure. Here we go.

China's idea of chemistry was poisoning an emperor and seeing what would happen. Their idea of warfare was having a person fire an explosive which generally killed the person that fired the weapon. They thought it was a great idea to sacrifice millions to build a giant wall. Sure, the wall was useful, but I'm pretty sure it killed more people than the pyramids did.

The majority of Japanese advancement was done by killing each other.

The ONLY truly useful people in Asia were the philosophers - their ideas were the only ones that actually managed to move society in a forward direction. And Europe had far, far more philosophers with more results in philosophy. Most of the Asian philosophers, by the way, came from neither Japan nor China. Lovely.

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If you include the Middle East and Egypt, Europe advanced much faster and more than Asia, even throughout various "Dark Ages". Mathematics, WORKING Science, political change on mass scale, concepts of honor and justice (other than with the Samurai), the majority of advances in the arts and languages - music, literary genres, historical records, etc - all came from Europe. Europeans excelled in structure and communication. They inspired the very world we live in today.

The only legacies Africa and America left were in, like, one region each. Everywhere else held slaughter on universal scale, where people drank from the skulls of their enemies.

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I respect the cultures of all peoples throughout the entire world, but if you want to start a "Who contributed the most?" war, you'll be thoroughly defeated.

The reason people thought WHITES were BETTER was not because of Eugenics - Eugenics was its own discipline that ended up tying into supremacy within the cultures of the societies themselves. Without Eugenics, the majority of medical and scientific advances we have made - prior to quantitative Physics - would not have occurred. It used PROPER science and had fully logical and rational bases before it turned into a race war.

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You can throw hate at the KKK and similar organizations all you want - but by doing so, you're no better than them. You seek to destroy people rather than the core issues which cause them to act this way. The KKK is not Racism itself, they are a product of racism.

ONLY by studying the REASONS for racism, their logical and rational bases, and EVERY WAY they've progressed throughout history, can we truly eliminate Racism from the world.

but if you want to start a "Who contributed the most?" war, you'll be thoroughly defeated.

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Okay, this goes for everybody. Can we please refrain from using statements like these? You never know how knowledgeable the other person (or people) is and it only makes you seem arrogant. If anyone is like me, then they want to tear down arrogant people as much as possible, so it's in your best interest not to post things like this.

Harlequin said:

it only seems like whites have made the most advancements because that is the biased culture you have been raised to believe in

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Care to elaborate on this? I thought it might bring up some good debates, but you don't put facts with your posts. If you have a counter argument, you're going to need some facts to back it up behind. Same goes for your response to what I said earlier. I don't know whether or not I can take you seriously.

Getting to the real subject, I'll agree with what Rezilia has said about the KKK not being as strong as they were, but that's about it. I do think that the threatening speeches they do say has a huge affect. How would you like it if someone wrote a letter to you saying that they were going to kill off your entire family because of your race? It has happened in recent history and it would scare the crap out of me. I would live the rest of my life in fear of being murdered in my sleep, so the argument that they're not as bad I just can't quite get behind. I see the argument, but I'm not sold on it.

Two things:

1) A shallow understanding of history. Your interpretation of Chinese history is laughable, and your reading of Western history is most superficial. I can school you on history elsewhere ;)

2) I added the last passage as a tongue-in-cheek way to point out how glossy your take on Western history was, and as a reminder to take the subject more seriously, but you've taken my passage seriously. Now you're trying to make the West look good - and you can do that, but you're trying and you don't have to try, if you're getting my drift. I've got my Chinese nationalism, but what you have for the white "race", I don't know. Let's not keep this discussion going, at least not here. People will take it the wrong way. Also, I'm not a fan of your style of eurocentrism. I'm not calling it out for what it is.

Other things that require pointing out:

Rezilia said:

Thus, why I said, they aren't AS MUCH a threat in the PRESENT DAY. I understand they were more a threat in the past. Now, they're just empty words.

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Ask a black person if they're empty words. Racial ******** is still going around, and even if nobody's organizing lynches and arson like they used to, these crimes still occur, as motivated by racial hatred. We're all thankful that the KKK isn't running wild, unrestrained, like they could - but today's race crimes and the legacy of segregation is frankly disgusting to me (and I'm not even an American).

Rezilia said:

You can throw hate at the KKK and similar organizations all you want - but by doing so, you're no better than them. You seek to destroy people rather than the core issues which cause them to act this way. The KKK is not Racism itself, they are a product of racism.

ONLY by studying the REASONS for racism, their logical and rational bases, and EVERY WAY they've progressed throughout history, can we truly eliminate Racism from the world.

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Don't play with semantics like that. It's just plain disrespectful. We're all intelligent enough not to be insulted with the way you throw definitions around. I don't see how you can equivocate "hate" for the KKK with the KKK's hate, nor the meaningful difference between being racism itself with being a product of racism.

If I had to take your passage seriously, I would criticize your understanding of society and culture. You seem to neglect that ideas have to be propagated - and it takes such an organization as the KKK to do so. Ideas don't simply exist in a vacuum, they have power because of the people that believe them - and writing as if this wasn't the case is simply intellectually irresponsible.

I'm not saying they aren't as bad because they've switched tactics. I'm saying ti based on the fact that their actions are much less direct and the membership - and thus power - has dwindled. Yes, words have power, and as I believe I've said before - I'm against verbal assault just as much as physical assault. But by claiming that one group is just plain evil, you are taking sides.

You just said I'm Eurocentric. I'm not. Many people attack those that defend Western civilization, calling them ignorant and racist. What, you think that isn't racism? It is.

I'm not saying Europians contributed the most in the past two thousand years due to being raised in a Western society. I say that because I've studied history thoroughly and know it to be true.

I recognize greatly the contributions of many in Asia, but as I said, it was generally the philosophers that contributed. And until modern times, they were so secretive in their findings that they didn't contribute as much to Asian societies as they could have, unlike European philosophers who were always open to the people.

In the past 100 or so years, Asia has made more contributions to the modern world. I'm not going to deny this. I'm greatly influenced by Eastern philosophies and especially the Social Sins. Ideas of equality and peace, unlike ever before, spread throughout Asia in volumes and contributed to the world to such extents that it can't be denied.

But I'm not going to say that their contributions affected the world throughout a longer span of years, when it was Europe that affected the world more instead. That's been proven by Europe's effect on history. Many nations in Asia, America, and Africa were so closed in everything they did that they didn't affect the world as much as they could have. That is the ONLY reason why Europe got a one up on them.

I'm about half Cherokee. I looked into most Native American histories, esp. my own. My people were traitors. My white ancestors ran and hid from their problems. Both sides abandoned their people. You think I believe I'm superior? No, I don't.

I claim that America and Africa didn't really contribute at all due to what we've found in history - that the peoples in those continents were too busy warring with each other than really making advances that altered the entire world.

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The only reason I replied as I did was to show you WHY supremacy WAS logical in nature. People didn't just move from nationalism to racism on a whim, they did it because they were united by the ways various peoples interacted with one another to make their contributions to the world.

Hating on Western civilizations is just as bad as any form of hate. It is based in ignorance because instead of trying to see the merit of a people, you attack them due to the feeling that they are denying you your history, when this isn't the case.

There's a fine line between nationalism and something more. I (should) know you well enough to know that you're just making a point, but I can't say the same for others.

Also, interesting that you brought up "hate against Western Civilization". This is a pretty big discussion unto itself.

My take on it is that "Western Civilization" is not particularly racially based, although it was admittedly more so in the past with European colonialism and the "mission to civilize". Now however, I take it as things like human rights and democracy and capitalism - norms that Western countries are trying to universalize into universal values, I suppose. I'm sure there are other ways to describe Western Civilization.

Tying it back to racism, I don't consider hating on Western Civilization to be a kind of racism. As I've described, anybody can become Western by having Western values. Also, "hating" on Western Civilization can be very intellectual. We're used to praising Western Civilization as a norm - think about how we're always talking about third world countries in terms of democracy and prosperity and thinking "why can't they just be like us?" so I think it takes a bit to think outside the box that we're used to as Westerners :P

I claim that America and Africa didn't really contribute at all due to what we've found in history - that the peoples in those continents were too busy warring with each other than really making advances that altered the entire world.

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I have an issue with this statement. America's civil war is what led to today's modern warfare. Things that were developed varied from more guerrilla style warfare to non-spherical bullets. Yes, we were warring with eachother, but don't say we didn't contribute much. ;)

It's more or less true, however. The "civilizations" of America and Africa didn't contribute much to the nation-state, Western society, nor modern science and philosophy but for the economic interaction that involved the extraction of both resources and people to the benefit of their Western overlords ;) Should I say Western of European? is anyone familiar with "American colonialism"? just tie whatever tangents you make back to the topic of racism please.

Slayr231 said:

I have an issue with this statement. America's civil war is what led to today's modern warfare. Things that were developed varied from more guerrilla style warfare to non-spherical bullets. Yes, we were warring with eachother, but don't say we didn't contribute much. ;)

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Ah, I forgot most people think America = U.S.

Normally when I'm talking about continents, and I say America, I mean this:




And I count 1700s+ as "recent" while late 1800s+ as "modern".

So, I was referring to Native America, not colonial+ America >.>

Sorry for the confusion D:

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Many people claim America is "Western" or "European", since recent or modern America was mostly influenced by Europe and its culture. For example, some people may claim Capoeira as "Western" rather than "Native American". This is because the slaves created it under European rule, specifically in response to European rule.

When I talk about those 2 continents, I say "the Americas", when I only talk about the Northern part, I say "North-America", when I only talk about the Southern part, I say "South-America", and when I talk about the country itself, I say either "America" (like most people here all it), "USA", or "United States" (not so common while writing).

In contrast, Americans tend to call our country "Holland", our Provinces "Holland", our people "Holland", but at least they don't call the continent "Holland", but they sometimes refer Europe to as "UK", and the UK becomes "England".
Recently, although I'm not sure it's true, I heard Americans call Poland "Death Camp" or "Auschwitz".

MKGirlism said:

When I talk about those 2 continents, I say "the Americas", when I only talk about the Northern part, I say "North-America", when I only talk about the Southern part, I say "South-America", and when I talk about the country itself, I say either "America" (like most people here all it), "USA", or "United States" (not so common while writing).

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This is really common outside of the United States. South Americans do the same thing, when they say America, they're referring to the entire American landmass.

MKGirlism said:

In contrast, Americans tend to call our country "Holland", our Provinces "Holland", our people "Holland", but at least they don't call the continent "Holland", but they sometimes refer Europe to as "UK", and the UK becomes "England".
Recently, although I'm not sure it's true, I heard Americans call Poland "Death Camp" or "Auschwitz".

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While people in North America colloquially call the Netherlands Holland, they've been calling the people there Dutch for several centuries, and that's only because "Dutch" was originally used to refer to all Germanic speaking peoples and there were more "Dutch" than any others! We also colloquially refer to the UK as England.

The rest sounds terribly stereotypical. Who's passing these rumors along? If somebody's referring to Europe as the UK and Poland as Auschwitz I'm thinking they're making a political joke.

BlahISuck said:

Poland as Auschwitz

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Hoohoo! Me oh my! Indeed, miss, indeed! >.>

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I normally called the U.S.: Murica. That way people know what I'm talking about, and I don't say America >.>

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Back on topic y'all :O

Anyone here from the Middle East? I've always wondered if people there are generally considered white, moreso than anything else.

BlahISuck said:

That's interesting. I think Lebanese people are white. I think most Arabs are white. If you look white, you're white lol. It's interesting when the War on Terror was in its heights in the hearts and minds of the people, Arab wasn't considered white.

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A lot of people think only Lebanese Christians (especially Maronites) can be considered white. Lebanese Muslims are considered brown by a lot of people. Which is especially ridiculous since I have blond and redheaded Lebanese relatives who are all Muslim and 100% Lebanese. Some of my paternal relatives look French or English - I think my family might have distant ancestors who were Crusaders from Europe. (If that's the case, then somewhere along the line they must have converted to Islam.) Even my own facial features look more Western European than Middle Eastern, despite the fact that my colouring suggests Arab.

I am hesitant to consider myself white since I know people who equate "white" with being Anglo-Celtic. It's annoying because a lot of people have light colouring - not just people who originate from the UK and Ireland.