Overdark Dragon (RMT - Gen 5)

Overlord Drakow · Apr 27, 2011

Overdark Dragon!

Team Overview

Welcome to Overdark Dragon. I have been battling for approximately a month now since my hiatus and this is the team I have settled on using. It's nothing fancy, just a simplistic beat down team which is good for a beginner like me to utilize as I immerse myself in the new metagame.

Team Analysis

General Lead

RAGNAROK (Tyranitar) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Crunch / Payback
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

I stole the chesty rest concept from Dark Azelf for this Pokemon. However since I lack an electric attack on this team, I am going to test Thunderbolt over Rest. Switching Thunderbolt for Ice beam to see how this runs. Fire Blast handles the steel leads and Crunch is my choice of STAB, though am now contemplating Payback over Crunch as it will usually deal more damage. Stealth Rock is staple. He also serves as a special wall during battle - giving this fearsome beast added utility for the team. I am still tinkering around with this and any suggestions particularly for this Pokemon would be much appreciated.

Sweepers

DRAKOW (Scrafty) (M) @ Leftovers \ Lum Berry
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Crunch
- Dragon Dance

This Pokemon reminds me very much of myself - hence his nickname. If I was to be a Pokemon, I would have the same dual typing. I am also a big fan of Dragons so I appreciate Dragon Dance being available to him. I tried different versions of Scrafty (different movesets and natures) with reasonable success. However, the Dragon Dance set has proven itself to be the best for me. Setting up with this Pokemon is not too difficult given his great defensive bulk and with access to Shed Skin, I do not fear status which is often the bane to set up sweepers. Shed Skin also allows Scrafty to be used as a psuedo status absorber too, which is nice to have. I am now testing out Moxie and while there has been a battle or two where Scrafty has been crippled by status, Moxie allows me to forgo set up time with multiple Dragon Dances, which has proven almost invaluable. I am tempted to throw a Lum Berry onto it to handle status but I think the recovery from Leftovers is crucial. Drain Punch allows for good healing too and Ice Punch handles the flying types that try to ruin my day. Crunch is a secondary stab attack which I think is worthwhile having over something like Fire Punch, to wreck that pesky Reuniclus. I have swept entire teams with this Pokemon against unsuspecting opponents and I believe Scrafty is a force to be reckoned with.

VAN'DALGYON (Hydreigon) (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Surf
- Fire Blast

My favourite Pokemon from the fifth generation. It was about time they released a Dark and Dragon dual typing. As an aside note, my Yugioh deck focuses on Dark Dragon monsters to overwhelm the field and crush my enemies. This Pokemon is an absolute nightmare against stall teams. The phenomenal coverage that Hydreigon possesses allows it to threaten many Pokemon. His great defenses and HP also allow him to take quite a beating to ensure that his reign of destruction is not short lived. I have opted for Expert Belt over Life Orb to help preserve his stay on the fields of hell as Sandstorm combined with Life Orb truly does kill Hydreigon's ability to take hits, which is truly not a desirable state of affairs. Decided to test the recommended moveset and it has been performing well. I am still very iffy on Life Orb as most of the time, I use Hydreigon to pick off weaker Pokemon where the boost from Life Orb generally is not needed. Have now decided to run Life Orb with pretty good success. Life Orb Draco Meteor annihilates so many things, it's not even funny. I tested U-turn but I don't like it too much, since it also drains health due to the Life Orb and generally doesn't do much damage. I like Dark Pulse on Hydreigon as a secondary STAB attack and it's also his main STAB move if I do not intend to hit and run with Draco Meteor.

BAHAMUT (Garchomp) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast

Scarfchomp. This is my revenge killer and is my only out against other speedy threats, without falling back to the line of defence. Most people prefer Flamethrower / Fire Blast over Fire Fang for greater damage against the steel types who in general possess superior defense. As suggested, I will use Fire Blast. I opted for Stone Edge to hit those flying types - in particular, Gyarados.

Walls

STARDUST (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost

The physical wall. Not much takes enemy outrages better than this guy. I also have a 50% fighting weakness so Ferrothorn was out of the question. This handles Conkeldurr better than Forretress, though one on one, I am certain Conkeldurr still wins. Regardless, I have been liking Skarmory through my brief testing with him. It's a really good wall in my opinion and he gets the job done for me. His moveset is standard and I would have liked to have taunt on there, but there is just no space for it. Whirlwind is better kept in over taunt as far as I am concerned. I am not too sure on his EV spread as of yet. As I test more, I'll play around with the EVs. I do like how Sturdy can allow Skarmory to phase Magnezone away before it dies completely.

KING O' WAR (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Psychic
- Recover
- Taunt

This guy is more like a mixed wall, it can take hits from both ends of the spectrum really well. With such a huge fighting weakness on my team, this is my only real line of defence against the fighting type. I have opted to run Cursed Body over Water Absorb as Cursed Body while gimmicky, can singlehandedly shut down the effectiveness of the opponent's pokemon against the jellifish. Combined with taunt, the potential to stop enemies dead in their tracks becomes fiendishly viable. Scald is my water move of choice as Jellicent has the bulk to take a few hits which increases the potential to burn the enemy with Scald. I have ice beam over toxic say, to handle Dragons a bit better, but perhaps it's not so needed. I am contemplating Psychic as a means to counter the fighting types better and am going to test it out over Ice Beam for now.

Team Evaluation

I do like this team, but there is probably room for improvement. I must use at least three Dark pokemon and at least two Dragon pokemon in my team. So bear this in mind if you wish to make any suggestions. I have a huge weakness to payback Conkeldurr too but there's not a whole lot I can do about that, given the conditions I have imposed on myself.

Detox · Apr 27, 2011

Your Hydreigon set is whack, make it

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Fire Blast
- Taunt / U-Turn

Why you are not using its best move, aka Draco Meteor is beyond me. Also you said that you are using expert belt because of sandstorm, yet without the 1.3x boost you get you really miss out on a lot of KO's so yeah..If you are worried about Conkeldurr, replace this with Latios :/.

Forry is really outclassed by Ferrothorn in every way possible. If you remove Hydreigon and replace it with Latios, you still have 3 fighting weaks, so please do so and use standard Ferrothorn > Forry.

Why in the name of hell are you using Cursed Body on Jellicent? Water absorb is infinitely times more useful as it grants you a water resist and a reliable form of recovery for it. Also I have no idea what you are doing with that moveset or the EV's, pick a variation of this and please use it > your current set.

Yo also dont have to use a defense lowering nature to use Fire Blast on Garchomp...just use it with Jolly.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk) / Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald / Surf
- Recover
- Taunt / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Taunt

Honestly, this team seems randomly made. It looks like you just threw 6 pokmon together and hoped it worked. Perhaps a bit of info about your team building strategy (and non of that EMBRACE THE DARKNESS stuff you do) would help. I can come back later for a more in depth rate because now I am sorta busy.

Hope it helps some.

Musica · Apr 28, 2011

Syndrome said:
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk) / Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald / Surf
- Recover
- Taunt / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Taunt

Hope it helps some.

What's with the Speed EV's? Wasn't that supposed to be Sp Def? It won't try to outspeed anything since it has low Speed.

________________________________________________________________________________

Why have TTar with Sassy Nature? If you want it to have a SpDef boost, why not use Careful Nature? Also, Fire Punch is a better option that Fire Blast. Rather than Stealth Rock, use Stone Edge.

Forry seems to be a better Lead than Ttar in some aspects. It can lay down both SR and Spikes and can give a Gyro Ball scare and has access to Rapid Spin, or if you want, explosion when it fulfills its usefulness. Nonetheless, TTar can cripple leads too, but an Azelf/Deoxys-S lead will have TTar crippled before it could lay down anything.

From what I've tried:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed - Sturdy
252 HP 252 Def 4 SpDef or
~Stealth Rock
~Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Gyro Ball / Payback

You have the option of Payback for those who try to spin block you.

Will-O-Wisp is a better option for Jellicent to weaken Physical threats with a burn. A burnt Conkeldurr with Payback doesn't even harm Jellicent that much, even if it has 252 Attack stat, and can be easily healed with Leftovers + Recover.

Scrafty's good with it's balanced stats, but Moxie seems a better trait for it. It has 65 base HP and you can't expect it to Dragon Dance more than 3 times. It does have 2 main weakness, Flying and Fighting that is, so Zen Headbutt can also be an option.

Draco Meteor is a must for Hydreigon, and U-Turn to negate the SpA loss.
Dark Pulse has less coverage than Surf and Fire Blast, so it's not really needed.

Vrai · Apr 28, 2011

Musica said:
What's with the Speed EV's? Wasn't that supposed to be Sp Def? It won't try to outspeed anything since it has low Speed.

________________________________________________________________________________

Why have TTar with Sassy Nature? If you want it to have a SpDef boost, why not use Careful Nature? Also, Fire Punch is a better option that Fire Blast. Rather than Stealth Rock, use Stone Edge.

Forry seems to be a better Lead than Ttar in some aspects. It can lay down both SR and Spikes and can give a Gyro Ball scare and has access to Rapid Spin, or if you want, explosion when it fulfills its usefulness. Nonetheless, TTar can cripple leads too, but an Azelf/Deoxys-S lead will have TTar crippled before it could lay down anything.

From what I've tried:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed - Sturdy
252 HP 252 Def 4 SpDef or
~Stealth Rock
~Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Gyro Ball / Payback

You have the option of Payback for those who try to spin block you.

Will-O-Wisp is a better option for Jellicent to weaken Physical threats with a burn. A burnt Conkeldurr with Payback doesn't even harm Jellicent that much, even if it has 252 Attack stat, and can be easily healed with Leftovers + Recover.

Scrafty's good with it's balanced stats, but Moxie seems a better trait for it. It has 65 base HP and you can't expect it to Dragon Dance more than 3 times. It does have 2 main weakness, Flying and Fighting that is, so Zen Headbutt can also be an option.

Draco Meteor is a must for Hydreigon, and U-Turn to negate the SpA loss.
Dark Pulse has less coverage than Surf and Fire Blast, so it's not really needed.

You're asking a lot of questions and I feel like I can answer them for you. Jellicent runs speed so it can outspeed things like Skarmory and Taunt them before they can set up Spikes or Roost. With Taunt, Jellicent beats Ferrothorn as well as most generic stall team Pokemon aka Blissey, etc etc.

"Why have TTar with Sassy Nature? If you want it to have a SpDef boost, why not use Careful Nature? Also, Fire Punch is a better option that Fire Blast. Rather than Stealth Rock, use Stone Edge." < no no no no no nonononono. Speed isn't worth anything on Tyranitar (and in fact it's better that he's slow so his weather stays up) and no Careful because he runs Fire Blast. Fire Blast is there for mixed Tyranitar, otherwise you're stuffed by things like Skarmory even with Fire Punch. And using Stone Edge over Stealth Rock? SR is infinitely more valuable for every team. If you're going to suggest stuff, at least back it up.

And... a burnt +1 Conkeldurr (assuming you come in on the Bulk Up because most proficient players can predict when you can force something out) demolishes Jellicent. Literally, it can't outstall the damage because it's taking more than Lefties + Recover every turn.

Moxie and Shed Skin are equally useful on Scrafty. Moxie helps you out and gives you free boosts, where Shed Skin is preventing annoying things like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp from ending your sleep. Neither one really outclasses the other. Ice Punch gives Scrafty perfect neutral coverage and gives it a way to hit Gliscor. Zen Headbutt doesn't hit anything in particular except Conkeldurr which Scrafty loses to anyway. Hope I answered some of those questions you were asking.

@ this actual team: Drakow, your team is immensely Conkeldurr weak and I don't know how you've gone so long without seeing it. It gets in on every team member save Garchomp and Jellicent (and to an extent Hydreigon - it might force it out with the threat of Mach Punch though) and gets a free Bulk Up and then proceeds to clean-sweep your entire team. Literally, nothing you have can beat it. +1 Mach Punch OHKOs Hydreigon with rocks down I believe, Forry does nothing to anyone, Ttar and Scrafty obviously lose, and Jellicent dies to a +1 Payback if Conkeldurr is burned from Scald. I'd suggest going Latios >> Hydreigon, as well as perhaps adding another Fighting-resist over Tyranitar since it's really not doing that much for you besides getting up Stealth Rock which can be dropped over on Forry if you really want it. I'd pick up Gliscor if I were you, but that's because I'm a fan of it - though it does beat about every Fighting-type and definitely Conkeldurr.

Musica · Apr 28, 2011

Vrai said:
You're asking a lot of questions and I feel like I can answer them for you. Jellicent runs speed so it can outspeed things like Skarmory and Taunt them before they can set up Spikes or Roost. With Taunt, Jellicent beats Ferrothorn as well as most generic stall team Pokemon aka Blissey, etc etc.

< no no no no no nonononono. Speed isn't worth anything on Tyranitar (and in fact it's better that he's slow so his weather stays up) and no Careful because he runs Fire Blast. Fire Blast is there for mixed Tyranitar, otherwise you're stuffed by things like Skarmory even with Fire Punch. And using Stone Edge over Stealth Rock? SR is infinitely more valuable for every team. If you're going to suggest stuff, at least back it up.

And... a burnt +1 Conkeldurr (assuming you come in on the Bulk Up because most proficient players can predict when you can force something out) demolishes Jellicent. Literally, it can't outstall the damage because it's taking more than Lefties + Recover every turn.

Moxie and Shed Skin are equally useful on Scrafty. Moxie helps you out and gives you free boosts, where Shed Skin is preventing annoying things like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp from ending your sleep. Neither one really outclasses the other. Ice Punch gives Scrafty perfect neutral coverage and gives it a way to hit Gliscor. Zen Headbutt doesn't hit anything in particular except Conkeldurr which Scrafty loses to anyway. Hope I answered some of those questions you were asking.

All these 5th gen changes are still too many for me to quickly grasp. Anyway, thanks for your answers and they will definitely help me and the thread starter.

Vrai · Apr 28, 2011

Musica said:
All these 5th gen changes are still too many for me to quickly grasp. Anyway, thanks for your answers and they will definitely help me and the thread starter.

No problem. If you have any more questions you can go ahead and VM me.

Two more things I wanted to point out before I forget: I agree with Syn on your Jellicent, Drakow. The Taunt set is infinitely more useful imo because you shut down a lot more Pokemon with it, including stuff that most people switch into it such as Ferrothorn. Cursed Body vs Water Absorb is an iffy decision imo because both are useful (like Cursed Body lets you beat Fighting/Normal + coverage move Pokemon better such as Conkeldurr and Water Absorb is Water Absorb).

I also think you should get a different Pokemon instead of Forretress, though that might just be personal bias. It's really unable to do anything but set up Spikes and Spin and is the ultimate definition of set-up bait, especially for stuff like Conkeldurr which your team is weak to. :(

Overlord Drakow · Apr 28, 2011

I am not removing Hydreigon for ANYTHING. AAAAAANNYYYYYTHING. EVEN IF IT WAS GOD WHICH HAS LIKE A 100% ACCURACY SHEER COLD WITH MOLD BREAKER.

Syndrome said:
Your Hydreigon set is whack, make it

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Fire Blast
- Taunt / U-Turn

Why you are not using its best move, aka Draco Meteor is beyond me. Also you said that you are using expert belt because of sandstorm, yet without the 1.3x boost you get you really miss out on a lot of KO's so yeah..If you are worried about Conkeldurr, replace this with Latios :/.

I did not wish to run Hydreigon as a psuedo "hit and run" pokemon, which is why I opted for Dragon Pulse over Draco Meteor. Dark Pulse lets me OHKO that god damn reuniclus but I suppose it's not so desperately needed. I might give your moveset a shot though, as it does seem enticing.

Forry is really outclassed by Ferrothorn in every way possible. If you remove Hydreigon and replace it with Latios, you still have 3 fighting weaks, so please do so and use standard Ferrothorn > Forry.

We both know Forretress has some selling points of Ferrothorn and I do believe Forretress can be superior to Ferrothorn - you just have to play to his strengths.

Why in the name of hell are you using Cursed Body on Jellicent? Water absorb is infinitely times more useful as it grants you a water resist and a reliable form of recovery for it. Also I have no idea what you are doing with that moveset or the EV's, pick a variation of this and please use it > your current set.

Cursed body is a funny ability. I can spam recover until the opponent's most threatening move gets disabled and then I have a "free" turn to do whatever.

Yo also dont have to use a defense lowering nature to use Fire Blast on Garchomp...just use it with Jolly.

Alright, will do.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpD
Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk) / Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald / Surf
- Recover
- Taunt / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
- Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Taunt

The second EV spread is the one I use! I think I want to put Psychic on the Jellifish to eliminate those fighting types more readily.

Honestly, this team seems randomly made. It looks like you just threw 6 pokmon together and hoped it worked. Perhaps a bit of info about your team building strategy (and non of that EMBRACE THE DARKNESS stuff you do) would help. I can come back later for a more in depth rate because now I am sorta busy.

It kinda was randomly made. I was basically like. What are some kickass Dark Pokemon? Then I thought to myself, what are some kickass Dragons to go along side the Dark pokemon. And finally, I was like, what are some Walls which can support the team a bit. I wanted to use my favourite Hydreigon of course. Scrafty as I said, reminds me of myself so I wanted to throw him in too. The third Dark I eventually chose to by Tyranitar because he is a really good Dark type. Garchomp gets the Sandstorm support so I threw him in. With the obvious fighting weakness, Jellicent was a staple and I threw in Forretress mainly to take those Outrage hits without having a fighting weakness. Anyway, thanks for your help, I will take your advice into consideration.

Musica said:
What's with the Speed EV's? Wasn't that supposed to be Sp Def? It won't try to outspeed anything since it has low Speed.

________________________________________________________________________________

Why have TTar with Sassy Nature? If you want it to have a SpDef boost, why not use Careful Nature? Also, Fire Punch is a better option that Fire Blast. Rather than Stealth Rock, use Stone Edge.

Forry seems to be a better Lead than Ttar in some aspects. It can lay down both SR and Spikes and can give a Gyro Ball scare and has access to Rapid Spin, or if you want, explosion when it fulfills its usefulness. Nonetheless, TTar can cripple leads too, but an Azelf/Deoxys-S lead will have TTar crippled before it could lay down anything.

From what I've tried:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Relaxed - Sturdy
252 HP 252 Def 4 SpDef or
~Stealth Rock
~Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Gyro Ball / Payback

You have the option of Payback for those who try to spin block you.

I like the idea of Payback Forretress actually. It seems really cool in theory to punish those spin blockers. I might try Spikes / Rapid Spin / Gyro Ball and Payback as a moveset.

Will-O-Wisp is a better option for Jellicent to weaken Physical threats with a burn. A burnt Conkeldurr with Payback doesn't even harm Jellicent that much, even if it has 252 Attack stat, and can be easily healed with Leftovers + Recover.

I'm tight on space for moves on Jellicent which is why I opted for Scald as a potential two in one damage + burn move.

Scrafty's good with it's balanced stats, but Moxie seems a better trait for it. It has 65 base HP and you can't expect it to Dragon Dance more than 3 times. It does have 2 main weakness, Flying and Fighting that is, so Zen Headbutt can also be an option.

Three Dragon Dances is generally enough for Scrafty anyway in all honesty. Moxie is good but, so many people try to status Scrafty and so I do feel Shed Skin is truly needed on him. Having a status absorber on the team is a good thing too.

Draco Meteor is a must for Hydreigon, and U-Turn to negate the SpA loss.
Dark Pulse has less coverage than Surf and Fire Blast, so it's not really needed.

I will at the very least, test this out.

Vrai said:
You're asking a lot of questions and I feel like I can answer them for you. Jellicent runs speed so it can outspeed things like Skarmory and Taunt them before they can set up Spikes or Roost. With Taunt, Jellicent beats Ferrothorn as well as most generic stall team Pokemon aka Blissey, etc etc.

"Why have TTar with Sassy Nature? If you want it to have a SpDef boost, why not use Careful Nature? Also, Fire Punch is a better option that Fire Blast. Rather than Stealth Rock, use Stone Edge." < no no no no no nonononono. Speed isn't worth anything on Tyranitar (and in fact it's better that he's slow so his weather stays up) and no Careful because he runs Fire Blast. Fire Blast is there for mixed Tyranitar, otherwise you're stuffed by things like Skarmory even with Fire Punch. And using Stone Edge over Stealth Rock? SR is infinitely more valuable for every team. If you're going to suggest stuff, at least back it up.

And... a burnt +1 Conkeldurr (assuming you come in on the Bulk Up because most proficient players can predict when you can force something out) demolishes Jellicent. Literally, it can't outstall the damage because it's taking more than Lefties + Recover every turn.

Moxie and Shed Skin are equally useful on Scrafty. Moxie helps you out and gives you free boosts, where Shed Skin is preventing annoying things like Toxic or Will-o-Wisp from ending your sleep. Neither one really outclasses the other. Ice Punch gives Scrafty perfect neutral coverage and gives it a way to hit Gliscor. Zen Headbutt doesn't hit anything in particular except Conkeldurr which Scrafty loses to anyway. Hope I answered some of those questions you were asking.

@ this actual team: Drakow, your team is immensely Conkeldurr weak and I don't know how you've gone so long without seeing it. It gets in on every team member save Garchomp and Jellicent (and to an extent Hydreigon - it might force it out with the threat of Mach Punch though) and gets a free Bulk Up and then proceeds to clean-sweep your entire team. Literally, nothing you have can beat it. +1 Mach Punch OHKOs Hydreigon with rocks down I believe, Forry does nothing to anyone, Ttar and Scrafty obviously lose, and Jellicent dies to a +1 Payback if Conkeldurr is burned from Scald. I'd suggest going Latios >> Hydreigon, as well as perhaps adding another Fighting-resist over Tyranitar since it's really not doing that much for you besides getting up Stealth Rock which can be dropped over on Forry if you really want it. I'd pick up Gliscor if I were you, but that's because I'm a fan of it - though it does beat about every Fighting-type and definitely Conkeldurr.

I have come across a few conkeldurr. You raped me with your payback one but when I am battling on Pokebattlecenter, I send in Jellicent and they like always swap their conkeldurr out lol. I am going to test psychic on my Jellifish to combat Conkeldurr more effectively and see how that goes. I have weakened a Conkeldurr with Jellicent one time and then finished the job with Garchomp against some guy. I have been contemplating Gliscor over Forretress as another out to Fighting type attacks. The problem is that I don't have anything to handle outrages, though I can just send in Scarfchomp after something dies to revenge KO, which is reasonable. Latias / Latios over Hydreigon does make so much sense, don't get me wrong, but as the trainer of Darkness I just cannot comply. Try not to think too lowly of me for my way of thinking on this matter.

Vrai said:
No problem. If you have any more questions you can go ahead and VM me.

Two more things I wanted to point out before I forget: I agree with Syn on your Jellicent, Drakow. The Taunt set is infinitely more useful imo because you shut down a lot more Pokemon with it, including stuff that most people switch into it such as Ferrothorn. Cursed Body vs Water Absorb is an iffy decision imo because both are useful (like Cursed Body lets you beat Fighting/Normal + coverage move Pokemon better such as Conkeldurr and Water Absorb is Water Absorb).

I do have taunt on Jellicent just to let you know, as you seemed to think I didn't. In fairness, I used to use substitute over it so that's what you may have been referring to.

I also think you should get a different Pokemon instead of Forretress, though that might just be personal bias. It's really unable to do anything but set up Spikes and Spin and is the ultimate definition of set-up bait, especially for stuff like Conkeldurr which your team is weak to. :(

I may test out Gliscor over Forretress though I will miss the Rapid Spin support which was a main reason for using Forretress. I will think about it.

Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions, it has given me much to think about over the weekend, while I am away training.

Musica · Apr 28, 2011

If you are having troubles with Conkeldurr, just prepare your Will-O-Wisp when you try to wall something with Jellicent, if they switch out to something else Conkeldurr-like, get Taunt ready since it will try to Bulk-Up or whatever stat boosting move there is. A +0 burnt Conkeldurr running Payback won't be a problem if you prevented it from boosting stats.

~Will-O-Wisp
~Recover
~Scald / Surf
~Taunt

Dark Azelf · Apr 28, 2011

Musica said:
If you are having troubles with Conkeldurr, just prepare your Will-O-Wisp when you try to wall something with Jellicent, if they switch out to something else Conkeldurr-like, get Taunt ready since it will try to Bulk-Up or whatever stat boosting move there is. A +0 burnt Conkeldurr running Payback won't be a problem if you prevented it from boosting stats.

~Will-O-Wisp
~Recover
~Scald / Surf
~Taunt

Uh it has Guts aka if you Burn it you lose even worse.

Musica · Apr 28, 2011

Dark Azelf said:
Uh it has Guts aka if you Burn it you lose even worse.

I forgot about Guts; I was thinking of Sheer Force, my bad.

Dark Azelf · Apr 28, 2011

I do think you should replace Forretress with Gliscor. SD version might work or the Fling version.

A. This stops Conkeldurr
B. Stops SD/X-Scissor/EQ/Rock Slide Excadrill from 6-0ing you.

You don't really need a spinner tbh most of your team has recovery and Forretress is a terrible spinner, really. Take it from me, that piece of trash cant even function on stall at all and ive tried, but its just inferior this gen. Paybacks nerf hurt it alot too and better spin blockers. Not only that but on an offensive team such as this Forry is dead weight.

Lastly id probably replace Jellicent for a steel type now that Forry is gone and now Jellicents role as a spin blocker is redundant. You need something to take them Outrages.

marcc5m · Apr 28, 2011

Drakow said:
I am not removing Hydreigon for ANYTHING. AAAAAANNYYYYYTHING. EVEN IF IT WAS GOD WHICH HAS LIKE A 100% ACCURACY SHEER COLD WITH MOLD BREAKER.

Sheer cold is illegal. Anyway, from what I can see, this team is extremely weak to Machamp and Conkeldurr. Your only counter is Jellicent, which, as you said, is weak to Payback Conkeldurr. Use Ferrothorn, not Foretress. And why do you really need so many dark types and dragons? You're basically saying "I want to lose". Reuniclus over Hydreigon methinks?

Overlord Drakow · May 5, 2011

I was obviously joking about the sheer cold thing. I considered Reuniclus but then that would give me a third bug weakness too, which I do not want. Anyway, I made changes to the team in red.

Overbump.

Changes have been testing well. Psychic handles Conk and Machamp decently and Skarmory can also do a fair bit of damage with STAB Brave Bird to those two, which is a big help to mitigate my weakness to those Fighting types. Jellicent generally will still lose out to those two but I can finish them off with Garchomp afterwards or even Skarmory as the case has been sometimes.

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