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4th Gen So Appalled

Mr Cat Dog

Frasier says it best
11,344
Posts
20
Years
Is there anything about HGSS that you DIDN'T like? For example, things you didn't like from the original G/S/C that were transferred over; things that you did like from G/S/C that weren't transferred over; just things in general that bug you to no end!

I love the games (they're probably my favourites out of all the ones I've played) but the Safari Zone really annoys me. The old iterations I never really 'liked' but at least understood; this one, while having the awesome feature to rotate the areas around, complicates matters to catch rarer critters by making you plant stuff and wait x amount of days and the first time I encountered it I just wanted to tear my hair out! It's great how it has such a variety of Pokemon, I just wish it was slightly less convoluted in allowing people to obtain more of them! :D

(KWC #6)
 

Giraffe

キリンリキ
315
Posts
14
Years
These games are so hard to dislike; .-.
Although I do agree on the Safari Zone matter ~ I've never understood the complicated method of re-arranging things in it!
 
144
Posts
12
Years
I don't like the Safari Zone, and I don't like the movesets (too few pokes can learn Flash). Otherwise, these were almost the best Pokémon games ever made, second to FireRed and LeafGreen.
 
25
Posts
12
Years
HG and SS were my least favorite Pokemon games in a long time. I hated, hated, hated the PokeAthlon and thought it was a terrible replacement for the Contests in Gen 3 and 4 that should have been included in HG and SS. The "plot" was awful, and should have had a major overhaul from GSC. Instead it was just a tiny update. There was no where to grind for the E4 or anything after (Victory Road is a joke). Early game Pokemon were still incredibly weak and virtually unsuable after a certain point.

Admittedly, I think I'm so hard on these games because I was a GSC kid. I really expected these games to blow my mind by combining the nostalgia of Gen 2 with the epic scale and fun of later Generations, but instead all I got was GSC with better graphics and an awful gimmick called the PokeAthlon. Also the Safari Zone was dumb and needlessly complicated. :(
 
3,801
Posts
14
Years
  • Age 31
  • Seen Jun 29, 2019
Well the PokeGear system was rather dated seeing how often I had to tweak the time on my DS to get a specific rematch which strangely enough screwed my chances of ever getting Blue's number now. That and getting Pokes such as Weavile and Garchomp in-game without trading was next to impossible for me anyways. Oh yeah and the Game Corner sucks donkey balls due to buying coins not being included in there for some odd reason. Besides from that HG/SS was pretty decent.
 

Elite Overlord LeSabre™

On that 'Non stop road'
9,876
Posts
16
Years
Several things I didn't like, with the first two being the most egregious faults.

*Red's team is still incredibly weak. Thunderstone, or better yet Jolteon or Ampharos would be helpful. So would only having one Water-type.
*Leaf appears nowhere in game. No option to have her replace Red. Girl champions need love too...
*Mt. Silver now involves using the pathetic Rock Climb HM. It's the reason I only went up there to beat Red once.
*Can't delete Pokegear numbers. Had to start over and remind myself to tell Joey "NO!"
*Can't buy coins directly at Game Corner anymore. Hence getting TM13 and TM24 was made a thousand times more difficult.
*TR Executives were woefully weak. C'mon, Archer at least needed 4-5 Pokemon, fully evolved, with better diversity and movesets. Higher levels wouldn't hurt either.
*Safari Zone so confusing I didn't even try it. At the end of the day, it's still the old Rock/Bait system anyway regardless of the number of bells and whistles they put on it.
 

arbok

cobra pokemon
196
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 29
  • Seen Mar 10, 2013
Well I can find little to critisise but I really missed the vs. seaker. I don't want to wait around for someone to call me. That and not being able to evolve Magniton
 

Bayrock

Dedicated
23
Posts
12
Years
  • Age 28
  • Seen Mar 17, 2012
I didn't like how 'unstable' the Pokéwalker ended up. My younger brother lost my shiny Charizard, back when that actually meant something to me. :paranoid:
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,920
Posts
16
Years
^ Guess you got some bad luck; mine's been pretty stable and I've heard many a tale of it surviving being dropped in the toilet, washing machine adventures, etc.

Pseudo rival wasn't that interesting imo. I wouldn't delete pokegear numbers myself as I personally didn't mind that but mum does call all too often about berries and can see why other people would want that. Lack of odd-egg was slightly disappointing but I liked the safari zone in hgss personally.
 

Nagaraja

আমি সর্প থেকে নোয়ান নিচে হবে
93
Posts
12
Years
I, personally, loving Slot Machines, was very angry with the Voltorb abomination. I mean, seriously... -__- "IS THIS WHAT YOU WERE EXPECTING" I'd love to have you expect a hyper beam to the face old man. I spent so much time in the Game Center when I could play my slots, and not lose any money.

I also didn't like the Safari Zone. I mean... it's so complicated...and no Pokemon trainer will EVER waste their time interior (well, exterior) designing...
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,920
Posts
16
Years
I, personally, loving Slot Machines, was very angry with the Voltorb abomination. I mean, seriously... -__- "IS THIS WHAT YOU WERE EXPECTING" I'd love to have you expect a hyper beam to the face old man. I spent so much time in the Game Center when I could play my slots, and not lose any money.
You can blame european laws of the anti-gambling variety and game rating people who would have given HGSS a far higher game rating (and hence affect sales) had they left the slots in. I like Voltorb flip myself but was also a fan of the slots, having tried them out in the japanese version.
I also didn't like the Safari Zone. I mean... it's so complicated...and no Pokemon trainer will EVER waste their time interior (well, exterior) designing...
I and other people would beg to differ on 'no way they would waste time on it'. =p (And well, I also did the decorating parts in other games too, ala RSE secret bases).
 

Tachikaze

九番隊 // Earth-Severing Wind
158
Posts
12
Years
The only minute issue I had with HG/SS was the Safari Zone being a bit of a bother. Aside from that, those games were essentially perfect in my eyes.
 

Nagaraja

আমি সর্প থেকে নোয়ান নিচে হবে
93
Posts
12
Years
You can blame european laws of the anti-gambling variety and game rating people who would have given HGSS a far higher game rating (and hence affect sales) had they left the slots in. I like Voltorb flip myself but was also a fan of the slots, having tried them out in the japanese version.
I and other people would beg to differ on 'no way they would waste time on it'. =p (And well, I also did the decorating parts in other games too, ala RSE secret bases).

That actually makes a LOT of sense. I had forgotten about the Gambling Law. *sigh* and it wouldn't be good for sales with a higher rating, seeing as how it appeals to both young and old.

I loved the Secret Base.... I just didn't really like the fact that I had to design to find certain pokemon. When I'm in the Safari Zone, I like to run about like a giant infant and catch as much as I can and get out. XD
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,920
Posts
16
Years
That actually makes a LOT of sense. I had forgotten about the Gambling Law. *sigh* and it wouldn't be good for sales with a higher rating, seeing as how it appeals to both young and old.

I loved the Secret Base.... I just didn't really like the fact that I had to design to find certain pokemon. When I'm in the Safari Zone, I like to run about like a giant infant and catch as much as I can and get out. XD
It's also why there were no slots for most european versions with Platinum. At least unlike in that game we got an actual replacement game for HGSS.

Each to their own I suppose, haha.
 
50,218
Posts
13
Years
Several things I didn't like, with the first two being the most egregious faults.

*Red's team is still incredibly weak. Thunderstone, or better yet Jolteon or Ampharos would be helpful. So would only having one Water-type.
*Leaf appears nowhere in game. No option to have her replace Red. Girl champions need love too...
*Mt. Silver now involves using the pathetic Rock Climb HM. It's the reason I only went up there to beat Red once.
*Can't delete Pokegear numbers. Had to start over and remind myself to tell Joey "NO!"
*Can't buy coins directly at Game Corner anymore. Hence getting TM13 and TM24 was made a thousand times more difficult.
*TR Executives were woefully weak. C'mon, Archer at least needed 4-5 Pokemon, fully evolved, with better diversity and movesets. Higher levels wouldn't hurt either.
*Safari Zone so confusing I didn't even try it. At the end of the day, it's still the old Rock/Bait system anyway regardless of the number of bells and whistles they put on it.

Yeah, I have to agree with what you said.

Voltorb Flip was a disappointment, cos you can't directly buy coins. I was really pissed at that. Damn you Gambling Laws!

The Trainers were also too weak, so were the wild Pokemon.

Safari Zone was also too complex.
 

dbcification

Long-Time Lurker
21
Posts
12
Years
HG and SS were my least favorite Pokemon games in a long time. I hated, hated, hated the PokeAthlon and thought it was a terrible replacement for the Contests in Gen 3 and 4 that should have been included in HG and SS. The "plot" was awful, and should have had a major overhaul from GSC. Instead it was just a tiny update. There was no where to grind for the E4 or anything after (Victory Road is a joke). Early game Pokemon were still incredibly weak and virtually unsuable after a certain point.

Admittedly, I think I'm so hard on these games because I was a GSC kid. I really expected these games to blow my mind by combining the nostalgia of Gen 2 with the epic scale and fun of later Generations, but instead all I got was GSC with better graphics and an awful gimmick called the PokeAthlon. Also the Safari Zone was dumb and needlessly complicated. :(

That's odd... My first Pokemon game EVER was Gold, and I am absolutely loving HG/SS (just found my copy and dumped it onto my laptop since my DS is fried). I mean, it is a remake, not a new game based off an old one. GSC had no areas to level grind before the Elite Four, had no contests or activities at all, and had no Safari Zone. I'll admit they overcomplicated a good system by adding in the time aspect for rare Pokemon, but overall I think Nintendo got HG/SS completely right.

Several things I didn't like, with the first two being the most egregious faults.

*Red's team is still incredibly weak. Thunderstone, or better yet Jolteon or Ampharos would be helpful. So would only having one Water-type.
*Leaf appears nowhere in game. No option to have her replace Red. Girl champions need love too...
*Mt. Silver now involves using the pathetic Rock Climb HM. It's the reason I only went up there to beat Red once.
*Can't delete Pokegear numbers. Had to start over and remind myself to tell Joey "NO!"
*Can't buy coins directly at Game Corner anymore. Hence getting TM13 and TM24 was made a thousand times more difficult.
*TR Executives were woefully weak. C'mon, Archer at least needed 4-5 Pokemon, fully evolved, with better diversity and movesets. Higher levels wouldn't hurt either.
*Safari Zone so confusing I didn't even try it. At the end of the day, it's still the old Rock/Bait system anyway regardless of the number of bells and whistles they put on it.

I swear I had an eye twitch reading this. Not trying to flame, just explain as best I can...

*It's a remake. While some trainers did get substantially stronger (a la Falkner), the Red battle was perfect, IMO. His team was fine. It's how it was structured in the originals, and how it was meant to be structured. His Pikachu was still the strongest Pokemon you ever fight period... Who cares if it didn't get evolved? He just didn't want to evolve it is all.

*Can't change canon. Leaf never existed for GSC. Red is the ultimate Champion, and you can't write him out to be a different gender in the interest of fairness. He is a he because that's the way Nintendo wrote the games (both GSC and HG/SS).

*Rock Climb is more powerful than Strength. My Zoom Lens'd Slaking didn't have a problem with it.

*Absolutely agree on this point. It's dumb that you can't delete, though I forget if you could in the originals or not.

*I would be more concerned about this, but then again, I play this on DeSmuME now, which has built in AR support, so I'm neutral.

*It makes more sense that they would be weaker, actually. They just got absolutely swamped by Red three years previously, their leader is in hiding, and the best they can come up with is occupying a building with one entrance and one exit in a city reachable in about an hour's time from the Indigo Plateau. They were desperate, and they couldn't wait any longer to train up. That's how I see it, anyways. That's how I rationalized it in GSC as well.

*I agree that it's confusing and the time aspect was unnecessary, but at least they tried something different than just doing the same old system.


I don't mean to sound rude in any of this, by the way.
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,920
Posts
16
Years
*Absolutely agree on this point. It's dumb that you can't delete, though I forget if you could in the originals or not.
You could delete phone numbers in GSC. Mind you you could only hold ten numbers in GSC as well - in HGSS it just stores them all.
 
7,741
Posts
17
Years
  • Seen Sep 18, 2020
  • Can't buy game coins.
  • Need to use Rock Climb to ascend Mt Silver.
  • Safari Zone delays before new monsters appear are far too long.
  • Too few trainers with too few monsters; player is liable to become underleveled.
  • Frivilously specific timings for rematches.
  • Mother doesn't buy PokeDolls.
  • Mother calls too often about things she does buy.
  • Monster sprites aren't animated per pixel like they were in Crystal (and to date only Crystal).
  • Female protagonist changed for the worse.


Early game Pokemon were still incredibly weak and virtually unsuable after a certain point.
My MVP when I beat Red was a twenty-levels-under Sassy Pidgeot; I've used Fearow heavily in Fire Red's Sevii Islands, and currently have a nice Furret on White.
Also Ampharos, Crobat, Jumpluff, Quagsire and Victreebel are all perfectly usable, with their base forms found in the vicinity of Violet City.
 
Last edited:

Elite Overlord LeSabre™

On that 'Non stop road'
9,876
Posts
16
Years
Oh, how do I explain this?

1. At least in GSC he had a varied team. This time around he inexplicably has TWO Water-types, which means my Ampharos obliterated half his team. Of course Alder in B/W is even worse regarding this matter in what is supposed to be a type diverse team, but still... And not evolving the rat basically meant a free kill for me and reduced him down to five decent Pokemon versus my six. I see no other champion in the game series who didn't choose to evolve ALL of their Pokemon. And they provided a much more satisfying challenge as a result. And actually felt like Champions instead of a glorified Youngster.

2. So how does FR/LG fit into "canon?"
Even so, I find it hard to say the Johto games are even based on the events of the original R/B. Let's assume for a minute that the events in the games are based off the events in R/B and not FR/LG. How then, can it be explained that my character in Blue was named "Chaos" and used Electrode and Nidoqueen among his team?

Now granted, I don't know if there would be any way to transfer your team data back in those days, and it would make sense to have to use a default character (Red) if the technology didn't exist back then. I do know that the two generations could communicate with each other (Time Capsule). But to what extent besides trading could have been possible I don't know.

But certainly that capability was in place by 3rd gen (Secret Base battles) where the game could read the team data from another game and set up an opponent with that team. There is no excuse why the DS Dual Slot could not have been used to read your FR/LG cartridge and insert that character in Mount Silver. They could have kept Red around as the default for those without FR/LG or a DSi without the dual slot, or for nostalgia buffs/Red fans. But not giving the option to use your FR/LG data as the final boss is due to either laziness or bias. I'm tending toward the latter since Leaf (and females in general) have always gotten the short end of the stick in Pokemon.

And all of the above makes me wonder how B/W 2 are going to be handled. If Hilbert/Hilda make an appearance are they gonna get default teams like Red or are you going to be able to send over your B/W data to generate their team?

Plus there were all the hints in the Rocket Warehouse linking FR/LG and the Johto games. Like the computer reports on brainwaves and evolution. And the Admins having similar teams to their Johto counterparts. And the allusion that Silver is Giovanni's kid, confirmed in the Celebi event. None of which were even mentioned in R/B/Y.

If Red was just the kid on Mt. Silver I wouldn't even take offense to it. I could have accepted that my character moved on and no longer served as Champion and Red was the "best" replacement they could muster. But it's all the NPC characters saying that HE broke up TR, basically saying that my character's crime-fighting exploits in Blue and Leaf Green went unnoticed/credited to someone else. And worse, credited to someone with a significantly weaker team than my own in-game team (and one certainly not worthy of being called an ultimate anything). I took offense to having my character's efforts not being recognized in the future.

Why does my favorite character in all of Pokemon always get so much hate? :/

3. Fully powered up Return pwns both. And it's the fact that I had to waste a moveslot AND constantly use the move in the field that annoyed me to no end. I don't particularly like Strength either.

4. The originals, you could delete but you only had slots for 10 numbers. Still I had to restart mine because of Joey.

5. Not all of us have that luxury. I actually traded those TM's over from Platinum so it wasn't that big a deal for me.

6. They had three years. If your character can get their team up to levels to topple the champion in a matter of a few months (if not shorter), then surely they could have mustered Lv37-40 given three years. And gotten their hands on some decent TM's and perhaps Rare Candy as well. One would think they would have used all that time underground to make sure they wouldn't make the mistakes of the past. Carefully planning. Training rigorously. And then, only once they've fully prepared, resurface. But apparently not. Apparently they spent most of those three years moping around/watching reality TV/playing Warcraft and only cobbled together a makeshift plan at the last minute.

7. I just wish you could battle/capture Pokemon normally in that place. That alone would make it much more tolerable.

Of course, not to sound rude or anything...
 

Sydian

fake your death.
33,379
Posts
16
Years
- Can't buy coins/Voltorb Flip
- "Level problem" wasn't addressed as much as it should have been
- Red's team...
- Specific rematch times

...Thaaaat's about it. I really enjoyed HGSS and think they were fantastic remakes when compared to FRLG. The coins aren't too big of an issue with me, as I have 99 of all gen IV TMs in my Diamond lol. :( /shame shame! Levels are blah. I grind a lot anyway, so it wasn't a problem much either. Red's team...wasn't that hard in GSC anyway, but they could have at least improved it. And the rematch times, I know gym leaders have a life and all, but we're actual human beings. We have more of a life than them. So I'm not getting up at the crack of dawn to get Pryce's number and call whoever to rematch them. And I don't feel like messing with my clock for that either.

Other than that though, like I said, I really enjoyed HGSS. And I want that follow me feature in B2W2!
 
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