Anyone else disappointed by the 20th anniversary?

Maybe my expectations were too high, but everything about this anniversary celebration has been a letdown to me. :(

SM went out of its way to tease and reference Kanto. The protagonist moves to Alola from Kanto, Lillie travels to Kanto at the end, and an adult Red/Blue even appear in the Battle Tree. Yet, we're getting SM rehashes instead of a return to Kanto, rendering all of these teases and references meaningless and worthless.

The anime pulled a similar trick with Movie 20. They called it "I Choose You," and teased itself as a revisioning of Ash's early travels and his connection to Ho-Oh. Yet again, it turned out to be nothing but a cheap marketing gimmick, and it's yet another generic movie designed to market the latest Event Pok?mon (Marshadow) while also replacing the iconic original cast with random nobodies.

Why is this franchise so reluctant to revisit its past in a meaningful way? Sure, it loves to tease and reference Gen 1/Kanto, and it certainly loves to market and give new gimmicks to Gen 1 Pok?mon. But, when was the last time we actually revisited Kanto as region? Or, revisited any of its characters in a meaningful way?

It's becoming increasingly evident that past regions will never be revisited outside of a single remake. The anime also seems to have a similar philosophy in regards to past companions. They get their one cameo (Misty in AG, May in DP, Dawn in BW) and then are never seen or heard from again. Although, if Iris' lack of appearances in XY is any indication, they don't even get that much anymore.

As I said, maybe my expectations were just too high. (The 10th anniversary was even more of a non-event.) But, I can't be the only one who feels this way.

I definitely agree with your theory in that Kanto is getting way too much special treatment when it comes to celebrating an anniversary milestone in Pokemon. Kanto references were everywhere in Sun & Moon, on top of Alola Forms being distributed only to 1st Gen Pokemon.

It's even become evident in the anime that we're barely getting any mention of Ash's previous companions once their generation ends. It's so sad because they are characters we love (well, most of them) but the anime staff seems to want us to forget them which is such an insult to those who have grown up watching the anime.

Basically, I don't like the whole marketing based on nostalgia thing. It did get some people back into playing when both GO and Sun & Moon came out, but I'm one who didn't like the approach at all because it felt like a middle finger to any fans of a region that wasn't Kanto.

I also hate the 20th movie for literally attempting to be a reboot by replacing Brock and Misty with two new scrappy characters and has now also turned into an advertisement for Marshadow. I really hated how the 20th anniversary was handled, now that I look at it, because Game Freak and Nintendo only cared about nostalgia and I feel saddened by that.

Well, the Legendary Wi-Fi events were nice, if nothing else. But honestly, I had zero expectations for the 20th Anniversary, so I can't say I'm particularly disappointed. Another instalment in the 3DS titles I don't care for, more anime I'm not interested in. I was quite surprised that Gen I finally got a Virtual Console release - and on the 3DS no less! - but let's face it, they should have been amongst the first titles Nintendo released on the 3DS VC. Too little, too late.

Pokemon cannot possibly disappoint me any further, because I've stopped having expectations for the kind of quality I used to be able to take for granted from the series. It's hit rock bottom and it can't go any lower. Nowhere left to go but up...or flailing on the ground, I suppose.

I only cared about it for the monthly distributions of mythical Pok?mon which finally allowed me to complete my Pok?dex.

Other than that, I agree that it was kind of dull. I never hopped on the bandwagon for Pok?mon GO, and in retrospect Sun and Moon weren't as great as I'd hoped they'd be. The anime looked promising for awhile, but it eventually devolved into the same old thing, and even got worse with the introduction of Alolan Ash. I haven't watched a movie since 4th Gen though, so I can't comment on that-though from what I've heard, even from this thread alone, I'm not missing much. xD

Hikamaru said:

I definitely agree with your theory in that Kanto is getting way too much special treatment when it comes to celebrating an anniversary milestone in Pokemon. Kanto references were everywhere in Sun & Moon, on top of Alola Forms being distributed only to 1st Gen Pokemon.

It's even become evident in the anime that we're barely getting any mention of Ash's previous companions once their generation ends. It's so sad because they are characters we love (well, most of them) but the anime staff seems to want us to forget them which is such an insult to those who have grown up watching the anime.

Basically, I don't like the whole marketing based on nostalgia thing. It did get some people back into playing when both GO and Sun & Moon came out, but I'm one who didn't like the approach at all because it felt like a middle finger to any fans of a region that wasn't Kanto.

I also hate the 20th movie for literally attempting to be a reboot by replacing Brock and Misty with two new scrappy characters and has now also turned into an advertisement for Marshadow. I really hated how the 20th anniversary was handled, now that I look at it, because Game Freak and Nintendo only cared about nostalgia and I feel saddened by that.

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To be fair, Kanto fans aren't really getting it great, either. :( You see shallow references here and there, and Gen 1 Pok?mon get loads of marketing and gimmicks, but the region itself and its characters are largely ignored. Kanto hasn't been in any game since HGSS (2009), and it hasn't been the focus of a game since FRLG (2004). And, you have to go all the way back to Crystal (2000) for the last time it was in a game that wasn't a remake.

Of course, other regions don't have it any better. I doubt we'll ever see either Johto or Hoenn again, and Sinnoh and Unova will similarly vanish once they get their token remakes.

It's become increasingly evident that TPTB don't see any value in past Gens beyond their most marketable Pok?mon. Regions and characters are considered disposable and replaceable, while certain old Pok?mon continue to get new gimmicks and get forced into new games for the sake of selling toys and other junk.

The anime clearly operates under the same philosophy. Characters are seen as disposable and infinitely replaceable, and shallow monster marketing takes precedence over everything else. That is why Misty, Brock, and Gary were dumped for random nobodies in Movie 20. Honoring them and their role in Ash's early years was considered less important than marketing new toys for Lucario and Piplup. :rolleyes2:

I don't have a problem with nostalgia itself, but I do have a problem with exploiting it for shallow marketing purposes while refusing to revisit the past in more meaningful ways.

Like Alakazam17, I think Sun and Moon were nowhere near as good as I hoped they would be. Most of the time playing the game is wasted on completely unnecessary cutscenes every few minutes (which, as I've said elsewhere, aren't needed "to help young players" since most of us who played Generations I and II were between 7-12 years old when those games first came out and we managed to get by playing those just fine), plus many other changes were made just for the sake of change rather than being done out of actual necessity.

More than the other events planned for the 20th Anniversary year, I was very happy to see the Generation I Game Boy games finally re-released to the 3DS Virtual Console, as well as being able to get the digitally remastered first three movies on DVD/Blu-ray - the first time these classic Pok?mon movies were made available in widescreen to American consumers since their theatrical releases as Warner Bros. refused to release them on DVD in widescreen (only allowing us to get pan-and-scan versions) when they held the rights to said movies (prior to late 2009, when we had the last release in a three-movie set using the same pan-and-scan only transfers from the early 2000s, which was particularly insulting as more and more households were getting widescreen HDTVs as a result of the transition to all-digital broadcasts that was completed for full-power over-the-air television stations on June 12 of that year.).
To be honest, I had been anticipating that the first three movies would be seeing home media releases once again since they were made available for streaming on Pok?mon TV for a couple of weeks per film in the summer of 2015.

colours said:

at the end of the day, have whatever opinions you want about sm. i dont really care about that. but this all really feels like a thinly veiled (not even that veiled really) attempt to trash newer pokemon games because "where is muh kanto".

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Where in the world did I "trash" newer Pok?mon games? Talk about an overreaction. :rolleyes2:

Yes, I am an older fan, and my main focus is Kanto/Johto, but that's not the point. I dislike the idea that *any* past region must be permanently left behind and never return outside of a single remake. (I hardly count re-releases of ancient games as being "revisits" of past regions.) It feels more glaring with Kanto/Johto since their last remake appearance is now 8 years old (HGSS), but the same thing will happen with other regions. I don't expect to see Hoenn ever again after ORAS, and Sinnoh/Unova/etc. similarly won't get anything else besides solitary remakes years down the road.

And, I hate to bring up this bag of worms again, but also think of the people who got invested in Kalos and the Team Flare storyline, only for the games to end up moving on to Gen 7 without giving Kalos any kind of followup. Personally, I could care less about Kalos and whether or not XY sequels exist, but I can still recognize that fans who did got ripped off.

I hate this idea that the past must always be left behind and that it can never be honored or recognized except in the most superficial ways possible. All it does is teach you to never get too attached to a region or character and never care about any particular storyline, because they'll inevitably be disposed of and replaced.

So did you guys want more Kanto or no Kanto? I?m not following anymore?

I, for one, was not disappointed by the 20th Anniversary. I was not expecting a full Kanto reboot and honestly that would?ve been a waste of time; there are better ways to pay homage to the older regions than revisiting them. I think SM did that in a unique way.

I think we can say now that the general goal of the 20th Anniversary was to not just celebrate the franchise but to also bring it back under the attention of the general, uninterested or uninformed audience, and I think they did that marvelously. Pok?mon GO was the best thing they could?ve released in the past year as it made the Pok?mon mania from the beginning days resurface. Not only did older fans come back to the franchise by seeing the creatures they?re more familiar with, it also brought in an entire new generation of young Pok?mon fans that will probably stick with the franchise for at least a few years now. Same goes for the release of RBY on Virtual Console and SM featuring a lot of homage to Kanto. Even if you don?t like the choices they made, you have to admit that the Anniversary created a lot of new publicity for the franchise and gave it a massive boost in popularity.

In my years of being a fan I?ve never seen so many people talking so openly about playing Pok?mon, whether it?s GO, SM or even trading card games. And that makes me very happy. Because of this, I see the Anniversary as huge success for the franchise as a whole.

Having critique on SM doesn?t mean that that the entire 20th Anniversary was a letdown. That is taking it a bit too far. Every game has is positive and negative parts but it should not speak for the whole franchise suddenly.

Only thing I?m disappointed about is the reboot movie replacing Misty and Brock for... Whatever those weird figures are. Mainly because it is a very weird choice and actually alienates the older audience that would?ve been interested in the reboot. But other than that, I think GameFreak approached things greatly.

I thought the 20th Anniversary was good in terms of Pokemon Events (even if I already had all of the legendaries) and merchandise. They did some interesting marketing things for Go and other stuff, which was entertaining. I felt like it was more expansive rather than catering to its core fanbase.

Also, we have to consider that we're not going to get a Pokemon Greatest Hits where multiple regions are either referenced or available in a single game. It kind of defeats the purpose and lessens the value of any one region.

Pokemon tries to reinvent itself while making nods to the past because their core idea is that they get a new fanbase every 3-8 years. That's why the anime doesn't revisit older characters. That's why the regions in the games don't get much more after their remake. On the topic of the remakes, it's revisiting an old region, providing a twist, and helping new players fall in love with an older game while veteran players get to see the region/game in a new light.

Would I love to see another Gen II remake? Sure! Do I actually want it? Not really. I'll just play GSC or HGSS.
Would I love to see Brock or Iris in the anime again? That would be super cool! But if they actually (re)introduced an older character, many new fans would be confused because they didn't see all 300 episodes Brock was in.

I really think the 20th anniversary wasn't handled right, yes the references and teases were alright but I feel like they had an opportunity to go the distance and give us a proper revisit of Kanto. Yes I don't like Generation One getting loads of special treatment, but I feel like for the 20th anniversary it was justified. Also, the movie is just a downright awful idea imo, why the focus on Ho-Oh? I was so hoping for Ash's full adventure through Hoenn with Brock and Misty but instead we get some random characters and Marshadow, it just wasn't handled right imo.

colours said:

i dont understand why you're (apparently?) so dissatisfied with RBY/GSC VC releases. Do you really want to see a Kanto/Johto re-remake that badly? If the VC releases are of any indication, it seems rather apparent to me that Game Freak does not have any intention on doing that. What would even be the point, though? What would change in a suppose Kanto/Johto sequel? All the characters that we know are older? Again, I'm asking for specifics (and I've asked for specifics in your last post in a different thread as well) and you've either refused to provide them or just flat out don't have any answer for that, which seems to me that you're complaining for the sake of complaining and not having any solid foundation for your reasoning.

And as someone who's first games were Hoenn games, with all the love that I have for Hoenn, I personally really don't want to seem them after ORAS. I don't want to see Sinnoh after it gets its remake. The same applies to Unova. These games would have already had their time in the spotlight, so why re-revisit them? That doesn't make any sense to me. Again, specifics. What do you have in mind? Do you really think that visiting old regions again would be paying those regions proper homage?

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Because, people like those regions and it would be neat to revisit them in a new way? I know in the case of Kanto and Johto, sequels would also be a great opportunity to fix those regions' outdated design qualities by adding new areas, expanding old ones, and expanding the Regional Pokédex.

I'd like to know why you dislike the idea of sequels so much. Did you dislike GSC and B2W2?

MechaMoth said:

Pokemon tries to reinvent itself while making nods to the past because their core idea is that they get a new fanbase every 3-8 years. That's why the anime doesn't revisit older characters. That's why the regions in the games don't get much more after their remake. On the topic of the remakes, it's revisiting an old region, providing a twist, and helping new players fall in love with an older game while veteran players get to see the region/game in a new light.

Would I love to see another Gen II remake? Sure! Do I actually want it? Not really. I'll just play GSC or HGSS.
Would I love to see Brock or Iris in the anime again? That would be super cool! But if they actually (re)introduced an older character, many new fans would be confused because they didn't see all 300 episodes Brock was in.

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This is what I feel is at the core of a lot of the franchise's problems. TPTB are still stuck in the mentality that Pokémon is solely for little kids, with older fans either sidelined or ignored. That's why there's so many reboots and such a focus on promoting brand new things. They don't expect anyone past the age of 12 to still be into this series.

Unfortunately, the little kid demo is fleeting and increasingly flocking to newer franchises like Yokai Watch. Meanwhile, Pokémon's fanbase continues to age every year, especially with the influx of older fans who recently came back through Pokémon Go.

colours said:

The entire point of a sequel is to continue an ongoing story or plot element that was left behind in an original game. RBY and GSC barely had any plot or story to begin with; your argument would be more sound if you argued more for a re-remake than a sequel to RBY and GSC. What loose ends are there to tie up in RBY and GSC? If it's a graphical and mechanical issue, then RBY and GSC deserve remakes, not sequels, and they already have remakes. Because they already have remakes, and because these games don't have any story elements to really continue from (like, at all), the next logical course of action would be to just release RBY and GSC on VC so people who've missed out on the originals and people who have a fondness for the originals can experience them again on an updated console.

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Problem is, those remakes are 8+ years old now and are getting harder to find. They also barely fixed the games' regional design and Pokédex issues, especially FRLG. You couldn't even get Crobat in those games.

colours said:

I'd like to know where you got this impression from considering B2W2 is one of my favourite Pokemon games. No opinion on GSC because I didn't delve into those games too significantly back then. Just because I don't see a sequel as necessary for Kanto/Johto doesn't mean I've disliked past sequels.

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Your very defensive, argumentative tone says a lot. Very close to putting you on Ignore. >_>

Not a fan of the anniversary. It was kanto this and kanto that. Like i want kanto being thrown in my face all the time. There were other generations. The anniversary was for all games. Not just kanto.

It was a wild ride that I have both pros and cons with.

Pros:
+The free online distributions of Mythical Pokémon from Mew to Hoopa, making it much easier for players like me to truly complete the PokéDex in X/Y and ORAS.
+Sun and Moon had some endearing characters and awesome new Pokémon worth remembering.
+The whole community of this franchise was certainly active and booming as a result of both Pokémon Go and Sun/Moon.
+Pokémon finally managed to become just as relevant as it once had during the late 1990's.

Cons:
-Sun/Moon's postgame leaves a lot to be desired.
-It would have been nice to get Volcanion in Generation 6 the exact same way we got Diancie and Hoopa through online distribution.
-Ash losing the Kalos League was a total copout that completely soured the entire experience.

Learning more about M20 has made me realize my biggest problem with the 20th Anniversary celebration -- While the older gen Pokémon have been getting plenty of attention, the older gen characters are not only being ignored, but are actively being sidelined in favor of later gen characters.

M20 is a movie that's inspired by Kanto/Johto and the OS era, yet goes out of its way to exclude OS era characters and instead give us new ones that promote later gens (including one who's entire story revolves around their mother being a certain blonde Champion).

Then, there's SM, the "20th Anniversary" games that are supposedly full of "Kanto pandering," yet only two characters from the first two gens combined actually return (Red, Blue) and far more prominence is given to returning characters from later gens (like Looker, Anabel, Colress, and Burnet).

The majority of the Kanto/Johto characters have not been seen since B2W2 (5 years ago) and haven't had an appearance bigger than a minor postgame battle facility cameo since HGSS (8 years ago). In terms of relevance to the anime and franchise as a whole, many of them have not had that since Gen 3 or earlier. Just look at Misty, one of the original Gym Leaders and costars of the anime. One of the most important and iconic characters of the Pokémania Era, and yet, she hasn't been seen or heard from on the show since 2005 and has had practically no presence in the franchise as a whole since then, either.

Outside of Red and Blue, none of the characters who have actually been a part of the franchise for 20 years have had any actual presence in this 20th Anniversary, and this is after most of them have had little presence in the franchise as a whole for the last 10 years. Why are the games and anime so willing to promote older Pokémon, yet seem to go out of their way to ignore older characters?

It's possible that TPTB are thinking primarily of younger audiences and feel that while they'll be able to recognize Pokémon from any gen, they'll only be able to recognize characters from later gens. I'm not sure if this is even true in an age of VC re-releases and OS episodes on Netflix, and even if it was the case, the games and anime only dug themselves into this trap by spending the last 10 years consistently sidelining Kanto/Johto (and Hoenn, to a lesser extent) characters in favor of promoting the likes of Cynthia and Looker. And, what about the not-so-insignificant number of older fans in their 20s and early 30s who have come back into the series in recent years? Don't tell me not a single one of them wouldn't mind seeing iconic classic characters again.

In short, what disappoints me most about the 20th Anniversary is how little it actually breaks from what has been the norm for the last 10 years.

Feroniamon said:

It's something I'm puzzled and in this way it doesn't feel like a "true" anniversary for everyone. But that's where the problem is and I think it's better to scout newcomers than catering just the older fans: Sooner or later older fans who are "fed up" will quit or just pause (they can't hold on Pokémon forever) and just catering them is not good for the franchise as well as if it would just focus on the newcomers (it's something SM escaleted with the whole hand-holding in the mainstory. I hope it tones down in USUM). It needs new fans and how could they get into Pokémon? The new generation is a different one than the older one who are with Pokémon since Gen 1 and they need something which appeals better for today's standard instead of the things which appealed for the older generation.

From my perspective I think the 20th anniversary tried to cater both, but wanted to play safe.

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Then, they should've just done what they did for the 10th anniversary, aka. give us a brand new generation and nothing else. At least that would be honest instead of paying lip service to older fans without ever following through with anything meaningful.

I guess the main problem is that both the games and show have gone on for so long that there's too many characters to give equal attention to, and there's too strong of a disconnect between older fans and younger fans. I guess when you consider what games the 3DS itself can play, it makes sense that they would give more attention to characters from the "dual screen" generations (ie. Gens 4 and later) over the earlier ones. People simply have easier access to games that feature Cynthia, Looker, and Colress than ones that feature Brock, Misty, and Lance.

(Although, that doesn't explain why SM suddenly decided to bring back Anabel, a very minor Frontier Brain who had only ever been seen in a single game 12 years earlier and didn't even make it into her gen's remakes.)

Feroniamon said:

The reveal about Makoto's mother is just fan-fictiony for me and doesn't connect well (sometimes I think it felts like a fan's self-insert). I mean, they have different hair color. But maybe Makoto's brown hair comes from her father, if she has one. Her "secret" was actually something I dreaded for this movie, luckily it happens only in the end and was just small - but still bugging.

Actually I have no problem M20 being trying to celebrate more than just Kanto. I can see this movie in an alternate universe and also as a interpretation about the friendship between Ash and Pikachu, which was the main point of this movie alongside Ho-Oh.

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Although I can't prove anything, I have a strong hunch on who Makoto's father is meant to be. Can't deny those thick, dark eyebrows, and I could totally see them wanting her to be the spawn of *both* of Gen 4's most overused characters.

There's nothing inherently wrong with M20 celebrating more than just Kanto -- But, why give the movie a setting that's meant to invoke the early anime, then? When you call your movie "I Choose You" and put Ash in clothes reminiscent to his original outfit, people are going to expect something heavily tied to the OS era, not Ash and a couple of randos from Sinnoh in some all-new AU story. That's not paying respect to the anime's roots. That's using nostalgia to pull a bait & switch and hook people into what is otherwise a very routine, business-as-usual Pokémon movie.

And, say what you will, but after Misty has been completely MIA for 12 years and counting, and the original trio has not been seen together for a whopping 15 years, a lot of people were really excited at the prospect of seeing Ash/Misty/Brock together again. This isn't to slight on later companions like May and Dawn, but it shouldn't be hard to understand what makes the original trio more important and why a 20th anniversary celebration should give them more focus.

If Misty and Brock can't even be in a 20th anniversary movie, then the odds of them ever appearing again are next-to-zero, and that's outright tragic. Two of the most iconic and prominent characters of the Pokémania Era, and they've ultimately become little more than unimportant throwaway footnotes.

The 20th anniversary was disappointing to me because the main part of it for me (or I suppose that it is the main part in general alongside the new movie) was Sun/Moon, and those games....really did not do it for me. I figured that for the 20th anniversary of the series (which iirc they bothered to mention/do something for unlike with other anniversary years) we'd get a pair of truly great Pokemon games, but nope.

BettyNewbie said:

new ones that promote later gens (including one who's entire story revolves around their mother being a certain blonde Champion).

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wait wut

I wasn't disappointed, but only because I wasn't expecting anything in the first place. Game anniversaries these days seem to mean a remake/remaster of an old fan favorite, or the first game.

The games disappointed me, but I didn't consider them to be part of the 20th anniversary celebration, so I don't factor them in.

Alexander18 said:

Not a fan of the anniversary. It was kanto this and kanto that. Like i want kanto being thrown in my face all the time. There were other generations. The anniversary was for all games. Not just kanto.

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I agree with you. I always felt the 20th anniversary was supposed to commemorate the franchise as a whole, but no, TPCi decided to be greedy and cash in on nostalgia by shoving Kanto material in our faces. I'm someone who never played the games that were primarily set in Kanto, but it's still not stopping me from getting annoyed at it.

Yeah. The anniversary focusing on kanto more gave me more reasons to not wanting another kanto game. I am sick of it.