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Bradley Manning wants sex change.

Sir Codin

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I don't know why people sympathize with him/her/it.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe because some of us believe in freedom of speech and some of the stuff that he...well, okay she...leaked showed atrocities committed by some corrupt U.S. soldiers who shouldn't have been in the army to begin with?
 

Snowdrop

Back and ready to babble!
630
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11
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I don't agree that prisoners don't have rights. They do. They are still human beings, after all. There's a reason why we don't use prisoners for slave labor, don't beat them up or kill them randomly, or why we're not allowed to torture them. They have rights. I think it's easy from a privileged outlook to look down on them, but that's ignoring the reality. The reality is that there's very little keeping you from being thrown in jail. Anyone can find themselves in prison for one reason or another. Not everyone in jail is a monster.





Also, can we please stop dehumanizing transgender people in this thread? We do deserve respect and misgendering a trans person is one of the most insulting things you can do. I'm asking nicely to stop.

Don't make up stuff that I said. The fact that he identifies as female has nothing to do with what I think of him. He feels more comfortable as a woman? More power to him! There are a lot of people in the same shoes, apparently.

I knew people were going to get huffy when I said "why would you sympathize with someone like that." And apparently in the courtroom he literally said he f*cking hates this country. Those soldiers may have done some messed up stuff, but they don't represent the majority. He leaked hundreds of thousands of other documents with classified information. However, I don't think this guy's evil or really malicious. Just... overly self-justified, I guess you could call it. And his prison sentence is a bit much (at least I think so). But still, he leaked important information and that's that. Freedom of speech carries far but not that far.

... and I've just broke my own philosophy about not arguing. I'm out!

EDIT: One last thing, I suppose I should clarify, by sympathize with him I didn't mean people who also feel they aren't the right gender, or people who feel they don't even belong to a gender at all. I meant feel bad that people see him as a traitor. Yeah, this is why I never debate :U
 
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LAWSICK

see you next mission.
17
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  • Seen Aug 3, 2016
Hmm.. to me it's a bit.. scary why this is considered news. It's someone's personal life choice and we have no business in it, especially when it's not breaking any laws. :/ I hate when people's personal choices become like a showcase for the rest of the population.

I get why he's in the news and all, but why is this in the news? Who gives a ****?

because a woman is being sentenced to prison with MEN. she is being tortured and punished cruelly because the government is refusing her status as a transwoman and is not offering her the hormone replacement therapy she needs. HRT has been effectively proven to treat gender dysphoria.

and for the record, Chelsea Manning has been a transwoman for a while now. i'd give links but i don't have enough posts but just google search "global comment breanna manning" and the first two searches (results from globalcomment and feministing) is what i'm talking about and note the date the articles were posted. the real announcement is that she wants to start her transition.

and yes, please stop with the misgendering- its disrespectful and cissexist.
 
2,138
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Oh, I don't know. Maybe because some of us believe in freedom of speech and some of the stuff that he...well, okay she...leaked showed atrocities committed by some corrupt U.S. soldiers who shouldn't have been in the army to begin with?

Snowdrop.
Eh, I don't care what the traitorous piece of crap does with himself. I'm guessing Bradley Manning doesn't have all his lights on upstairs anyways. I don't know why people sympathize with him/her/it.

Don't make up stuff that I said. The fact that he identifies as female has nothing to do with what I think of him. He feels more comfortable as a woman? More power to him! There are a lot of people in the same shoes, apparently.

I knew people were going to get huffy when I said "why would you sympathize with someone like that." And apparently in the courtroom he literally said he f*cking hates this country. Those soldiers may have done some messed up stuff, but they don't represent the majority. He leaked hundreds of thousands of other documents with classified information. However, I don't think this guy's evil or really malicious. Just... overly self-justified, I guess you could call it. And his prison sentence is a bit much (at least I think so). But still, he leaked important information and that's that. Freedom of speech carries far but not that far.

We have discuss this several times before, but it's a bit off topic, so I will just offer a brief reasoning as to why this is not Constitutionally guarenteed freedom of speech. First off, not all speech is protected. Second, this speech is prohibited by Federal laws, especially given it concerns military operations the freedom of speech undergoes a much higher scrutiny as observed in U.S. Supreme Court Cases, as speech may inhibit certain military objectives. If the Courts condoned Manning's actions, it would encourage more leaks, and thus more conflicts which is demonstrated by the third point. Thirdly, the consequences of leaks had a MASSIVE negative effect upon U.S foreign policy as well as peace relations with the "the West" and the Middle Eastern nations. The information and footage intercepted by Al-Qaeda enabled them to mobilize into other regions. The group prior to the leaks was isolated in very few regions. Further, the leaks have mobilized uprisings, which, again, allows for organizations like Al-Qaeda to mobilize and recruit members as well as create societal tensions and violence of which is not conducive with stability and/or a gradual shift to democratic institutions. Further, given that uprising groups, at the very least initially, were of Anti-American policy, democratic institutions being built upon that premise is troubling for the U.S. and its allies, and thus, the Middle Eastern region itself. Now, many people have lauded the Arab Spring for empowering the citizens to institute democracy, when in fact it is causing more vigilantism, military coups, and increase in government authoritarian and despotism in order to remedy these movements. Thus, civil wars. Additionally, the citizens themselves are divided more than ever; it's not just authoritarian regimes vs. citizens. Look at Syria, Yemen, Libya, and Egypt. They are all chaotic and divided over traditions/customs vs secularism. Provoking this movement was not a conscious decision by Manning, he was not in a right state of mind to decide the fate of all of these nations' stability and how it affects the entire global community. Certainly, certainly, we can point the finger at both the Bush and Obama administrations for implementing policies that encouraged protests and political dissonance; however, Mannings unilateral decision inflamed the situation with the middle east, as it was the platform by which allowed the Arab Spring to commence and mobilize. Though, we can certainly say Mannings intentions were good, there are reasons why the law prohibits certain behaviors of those with classified information due to the high sensitivity of that information, of which has a profound affect on the entire world. I have said it before, he was not in the right state of mind to be making these decision or have the power and accessibility to this information given Manning's extensive record of erratic behavior and violent outbursts. Manning's commanders should bear some of the liability for the unlawful actions. Though he has highly aggravated the already shaky relationship with the U.S and Middle Eastern region, he should be treated like any other prisoner, not like any other law-abiding transgender person, nor worse than any other prisoner. Manning's sentencing is justified, so it's not a matter of if he should or should not be in prison, it's a matter of how the U.S. Federal Prison addresses gender identification of transgenders in a way that balances the concerns of the inmate as well as the rest of the inmate population in order to reduce conflicts and reduce inequality of medical access among the inmate population. And, to address how medical coverage of prisoners ought to be dealt with in concerns with the rest of the population, i.e law-abiding tax-payers.

We are obfuscating this issue by discussing our personal thoughts on transgender rights in a general sense rather than distinguishing them with transgenders in prison, as well as our personal sentiment of Manning good and bad. Manning being in prison shouldn't dictate or affect how we address policies that affect all transgender people in prisons. Lastly, like other thread, I keep seeing "I/you/we/they have a right or need to..." These are not arguments unless you demonstrate why that is a right rather than simply stating it is an inalienable right. No one is born with the right to anything, rather we justify why some actions are justified in that they are or should be condoned in order to improve society in some form or fashion. Empty truisms of right and wrong are exactly what we need to avoid. Further, please address the pros and cons of a policy, just focusing on the wellbeing of this one individual inmate isn't balancing the concern with the other inmates, taxpayers, and equity of law-abiding transgender persons who are more than likely not offered this surgery/therapy free of charge.

This is why I am not a fan of highly specific news stories that are anecdotes that may speak to broader issues, these instead become convoluted with a multitude of extenuating circumstances that affect how we would have addressed the issue otherwise from a more philosophical standpoint, and rather it becomes personal.
 
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Kura

twitter.com/puccarts
10,994
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I don't agree that prisoners don't have rights. They do. They are still human beings, after all. There's a reason why we don't use prisoners for slave labor, don't beat them up or kill them randomly, or why we're not allowed to torture them. They have rights. I think it's easy from a privileged outlook to look down on them, but that's ignoring the reality. The reality is that there's very little keeping you from being thrown in jail. Anyone can find themselves in prison for one reason or another. Not everyone in jail is a monster.
.

While that's true, I don't believe they should sit back and get things handed to them like kings. But just like every other human being, I think they need to work (if physically capable to) to earn those rights respectfully. We say having food is a right when really it's not in the real world. There are mothers getting only $120 a month to live on (food, rent, etc) ridiculous. Just like people in asylums earn rights for following their daily pill plans and taking steps towards bettering themselves, I think inmates need to do the same thing. Slave labour and manual labour are completely different things. Regular manual labour has workplace rights and I would think those apply to this case.

And it's also why I said it depends on their initial sentence. If they murdered someone else, I honestly don't care if they get beat up or killed randomly- since to me, a murderer IS a monster and not a human, but I also think that the person doing the beating/killing should also get thrown in jail because they are no better.

Let them build wells for starving children. Let them do something for society. Don't just let them sit on their butts all day and then serve them apples and grapes. Hospitals have it worse and it's sickening. PLUS people even need to PAY to stay overnight at a hospital. WTF is this world coming to?


And as for transgendered people, I think they should be allowed to choose the prison they want to go to if given the initial option (example= what facilities are available for their sentencing.)
 

BraveNewWorld

The Breaker
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I get why he's in the news and all, but why is this in the news? Who gives a ****?
It's because everyday people are paying for him to go through a sex change after he's been tried and sentenced to prison for treason. Tax dollars are being diverted to pay for this. (If it even happens.)
 

Silais

That useless reptile
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  • Seen Jul 17, 2016
Eh, I don't care what the traitorous piece of crap does with himself. I'm guessing Bradley Manning doesn't have all his lights on upstairs anyways. I don't know why people sympathize with him/her.

These kinds of comments really infuriate me. Do you realize the cruelty and horrible actions of our own military? How they killed civilians, shot at first responders, shot at children, and murdered two reporters in cold blood? How is Manning a "traitorous piece of crap" for exposing these crimes to the world? Because it makes the government and the military look bad? Is the government somehow more important than the people? Is it exempt from all punishment of the crimes it has committed and allowed to be committed? Manning received 35 years in prison for exposing the inhumanity of our government and military. The men who killed those innocent people, ran over those civilians with tanks and broke their bodies in two—no punishment whatsoever. So if you're going to call someone a "traitorous piece of crap", I'd direct the term towards the military or the government.

Now, on topic. I find Manning's gender issues to be a bit too convenient for the timing involved, but can you blame him for trying to lessen his sentence or the severity of his imprisonment? What person would want to be in a U.S. prison for any amount of time, especially when his actions were taken not to endanger lives (which it hasn't, by the way) but to inform the public. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a hero, but I certainly believe he deserves better treatment than a 35-year prison sentence for being a whistleblower.
 
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I think that everyone - everyone - is entitled to be healthy physically and mentally. I don't believe in needless suffering. That doesn't help anyone and doesn't help society.

Manning should get counseling and if Manning and medical professionals agree that hormones and/or surgery are then Manning should get them. And so should anyone else. And those homeless people on the street with schizophrenia? Give them help, too. And those families that are going hungry? Give them food and help. We shouldn't be arguing about whether it's right for someone sentenced to prison should to get medical help, we should be talking about how best to get help to everyone.

Sorry, I'm just an idealist sometimes. But even the practical me knows that we could be doing so much more with the current resources to help more people.
 
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It's because everyday people are paying for him to go through a sex change after he's been tried and sentenced to prison for treason. Tax dollars are being diverted to pay for this. (If it even happens.)

Seeing as most of our tax dollars go to helping the military kill people, a sex change is pretty pedestrian in comparison.
 

Kyrul

Long Live The Note
841
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12
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As much as transexuals creep me out, I'm all for him getting the sex change, he's still entitled to that right in prison technically. My question is who's paying for it? Was PFC Manning dishonorably discharged or in the process of dishonorable discharge? From what I'm gathering is that he wants the military to pay for his operation.......That's going to be a huge no-go. The military will not pay for cosmetic work to be done. They will only pay if it is something they need to do in order for you to stay combat ready, or something that will enhance your effectiveness. This procedure does none of those things, so it's just going to be a liability on the military and taxpayers. And I guarantee Manning knows this, so the very idea of him wanting the military to pay for this is ridiculous. If his dishonorable discharge has already been approved by his chain of command then he's pretty much SOL on that anyways.
 
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As much as transexuals creep me out, I'm all for him getting the sex change, he's still entitled to that right in prison technically. My question is who's paying for it? Was PFC Manning dishonorably discharged or in the process of dishonorable discharge? From what I'm gathering is that he wants the military to pay for his operation.......That's going to be a huge no-go. The military will not pay for cosmetic work to be done. They will only pay if it is something they need to do in order for you to stay combat ready, or something that will enhance your effectiveness. This procedure does none of those things, so it's just going to be a liability on the military and taxpayers. And I guarantee Manning knows this, so the very idea of him wanting the military to pay for this is ridiculous. If his dishonorable discharge has already been approved by his chain of command then he's pretty much SOL on that anyways.

I will advise everyone to ignore the first sentence of this post as only one person needs to address this or otherwise throw the thread off-topic. First, transexuals and transgenders are completely different terms that are often used interchangeably. There is no evidence that suggests that Manning would like to remain a male and dress up as a woman during sexual activities (transexualism); rather, Manning is a transgender, Manning wants to become a woman, which suggest he actually wants some form of hormonal therapy as well as plastic surgery. There are many concerns involving which resources should be available to Manning given the prison sentencing. There are claims to be made on both sides, but obfuscating the issue with both an incorrect definition and unnecessarily caustic statement is not productive in assessing this issue of public policy as it relates to transgenders that are incarcerated and will only cause needless tension with other posters.

Also, there is no evidence that Manning wants the military to pay for these services, rather, Manning wants the taxpayers, via the pertinent Federal Government Agency involving the Federal Prison System to allocate funds for these surgeries presumably.

Again, if the previous statement offended anyone, I would highly recommend not to comment on it as the discussion will change in tone and sacrifice subjectivity and escalate tension. I am sure that Kyrul understands that he could have articulated his comment in a less offensive and more productive/objective manner.
 
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