[Discussion] '3D' Tilesets?

I feel that this doesn't deserve an entire thread, as it can be answered fairly simply, but I have a question regarding something I've heard a bit about. I've read some people claiming that B/W tiles look weird (or maybe are just difficult to rip?) because you can't simulate the 3D effect they have in game. Can anyone explain to me what this is? I don't want to spend my time importing tilesets from those games or HG/SS only to find that they don't translate over well to RPG Maker because of something to do with this. This might not even be an actual problem either, and just me misinterpreting what someone said, which is why I feel weird dedicating an entire thread to it.

This subforum needs a simple questions and answers thread lol. (which it's probably somewhere, of course :/)

ImBlue said:

I feel that this doesn't deserve an entire thread, as it can be answered fairly simply, but I have a question regarding something I've heard a bit about. I've read some people claiming that B/W tiles look weird (or maybe are just difficult to rip?) because you can't simulate the 3D effect they have in game. Can anyone explain to me what this is? I don't want to spend my time importing tilesets from those games or HG/SS only to find that they don't translate over well to RPG Maker because of something to do with this. This might not even be an actual problem either, and just me misinterpreting what someone said, which is why I feel weird dedicating an entire thread to it.

This subforum needs a simple questions and answers thread lol. (which it's probably somewhere, of course :/)

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There are no "House tiles" in DPPt, HGGS or BW/2.
Since Generation 4, the Pokémon games have used 3D engines. This means that it is a block with a texture on it. This means there is no tile to rip. You can take a screenshot of the house and copy-paste it into paint, but since the angle changes depending on where the player stands when you take the screenshot, it is almost impossible to make it look good as a tile.

I don't really understand how that is relevant to RMXP though. As long as you are/have a decent tilespriter, it is always possible to make tiles that imitate the models in BW for example.
Of course you can have a house that look exactly like any house in Gen 4/5, you just have to make them from scratch.

ImBlue said:

This subforum needs a simple questions and answers thread lol. (which it's probably somewhere, of course :/)

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There use to be one if I recall, nobody ever used it.

I would say this question would best fit under the resources section, but perhaps that is just me.

It's more of a discussion about which style of tileset you prefer, with the asked question focussing on 2D versus "3D" style.

The main thing I have against the tiles made from mimicking 3D models is that they tend not to have outlines for objects like houses. This stops them from standing out as much as perhaps they should, and they don't work as well when characters/Pokémon/other objects like Poké Balls have outlines. The reason the Gen 4/5 buildings don't have outlines is because they can't - they're models. If you want to know what looks best for a 2D game, look at a 2D game (e.g. the Gen 3 games). You know what their buildings have? Outlines.

Another feature 3D tilesets tend to have is top-heaviness. That is, the tops of buildings and other tall objects look bigger than their bases. This is all right if the camera is a single point above the player and there's a field of view (I don't know the correct term to describe it), but in RMXP the camera isn't like that. The edges of a map don't slope away from the centre of the screen, and tiles in the top part of the screen aren't further away than tiles in the bottom part of the screen. No, the view is isometric, head-on, and there's no depth of field. This means there shouldn't be any perspective tricks applied to tiles in the tileset to make them look like they're popping out, because those tricks apply a different perspective to those tiles than the map is actually displayed with.

I'm not saying it's impossible to use tilesets which look different to FRLG. I'm just saying that it's really difficult to disguise the perspective issue, because the RPGs made with RMXP are 2D and suit 2D-style tileset graphics. And I personally dislike top-heaviness and hate lack of outlines.

Wow, this question was answered much better than I thought it would as I figured I asked it poorly, thanks guys!

I wasn't the biggest fan of GBA graphics in general, and was hoping to use those from HG/SS (or at least that style; we all have a dream of custom tilesets some day!). And now that I know the main costs/benefits of using newer tilesets I figure I'll do a better job with mapping and such. Again, thanks for clearing this up!

If you're even a little bit artistic, you should be able to edit outlines into one of the HG/SS tilesets - just choose the right colours (don't make the outlines pure black!).

As far as I know, the only reason the tilesets don't have outlines on buildings etc is because many DS emulators don't render the outlines.

Awkward Squirtle said:

If you're even a little bit artistic, you should be able to edit outlines into one of the HG/SS tilesets - just choose the right colours (don't make the outlines pure black!).

As far as I know, the only reason the tilesets don't have outlines on buildings etc is because many DS emulators don't render the outlines.

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Should I edit on the outlines before rezising, so the outlines are twice the size like everything else, or add them after resizing so they are true outlines only?

And while I'm here I just want to say that I've gone back and played Platinum a bit, and have noticed for myself the 3D engine in action vs traditional 2D gameplay. While it would be cool to be able to make games like that, I suppose there isn't a publicly available program that allows you to add 3D models and such lol.

This is a question I often need an answer to myself. B/W tilesets just look weird to me.

Practically speaking, outlines should be 2 pixels wide like all other bits of tiles. This allows them to remain visible when the screen zoom is halved, and makes them fit in with all the other 2z2 "pixels" in the tiles (people will jump all over you if you try to mix single-sized and double-sized graphics).

ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ said:

There use to be one if I recall, nobody ever used it.

I would say this question would best fit under the resources section, but perhaps that is just me.

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I'm confused, don't people use 3d assets for some maps? Isn't the stuff in your signature 3d?

3D Tiles are possible, but they're very uncommon.
Neverwinter: Nights is a good example of being a 3D game using Tiles.
And no, his Signature Images are 2D, you can see it goes up/down and left/right, but not in/out.