SwSh New Competitive Stuff Discussion

I think people have the game already, so we should be able to talk about the game now.

I only read about some of the things tonight and two or three days ago, but some things seem really interesting. I've only looked at the new Pokémon (bar Gigantimax forms) and their Abilities (along with some moves), and I'm actually excited to try some of the new stuff out.

Obviously I won't be putting everything in this first post, but one of the cool things I looked at was this new move called Octolock. Here's the description: "The user locks the target in and prevents it from fleeing. This move also lowers the target's Defense and Sp. Def every turn." I think it's a cool new way of trapping and could have its uses. However, it's the signature move of this new Pokémon that doesn't happen to be very fast...but we'll see.

There are a ton of new things and a lot of new Pokémon, Abilities, and Moves - I want to see what everyone thinks!

Excadrill is gonna be absurd.

Hydreigon as well. Giving that thing DD and NP was maybe a bit much. It can now easily run either boosting set, scarf, specs, a number of all out attacker sets, or even a bulkier spread. Definitely OU

Apparently a lot of people are using Barraskewda. It has 136 speed and 123 attack, and gets Close Combat and Liquidation. Its Abilities may not be that strong but at least it can avoid Storm Drain.

Corsola is actually looking good as a physical wall with Eviolite and Strength Sap. I never thought I'd see the day.

Mobile Tsk said:

Corsola is actually looking good as a physical wall with Eviolite and Strength Sap. I never thought I'd see the day.

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Oh huh. I just checked its Evo and its defense drops by half...wow. They're really out here with the crazy stat changes.

I haven't played the tier yet, I've got some stuff coming up the Friday, but I kind of want to test some things out while things are still fresh.

Also the Grass starter gets Grassy Surge, 125Atk, and 85 Speed. It's a bit faster than Bulu and is only a bit weaker - I think the speed matters more than the Atk here. Also it gets U-Turn. Seems powerful considering how powerful Bulu was though it doesn't have the Fairy typing which might limit how it can switch in.

5qwerty said:

Oh huh. I just checked its Evo and its defense drops by half...wow. They're really out here with the crazy stat changes.

I haven't played the tier yet, I've got some stuff coming up the Friday, but I kind of want to test some things out while things are still fresh.

Also the Grass starter gets Grassy Surge, 125Atk, and 85 Speed. It's a bit faster than Bulu and is only a bit weaker - I think the speed matters more than the Atk here. Also it gets U-Turn. Seems powerful considering how powerful Bulu was though it doesn't have the Fairy typing which might limit how it can switch in.

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Grassy Surge is currently unreleased, though I am curious to see how viable it is once it comes out.

I think Gorilla Tactics on Galarian Darmanitan seems really good despite it's restriction to Choice Band/Choice Scarf as an item. Definitely a viable wall breaker, and, evidently, an indefinitely high-tier sweeper. I really like how Unfezant now actually gets good flying stab via Brave Bird, instead of having to run... ... Pluck. This meta is going to be quite fun.

Looking through what smogons said along with my own assumptions looking through the 400 pokes we have..Heres a list of pokes I think look pretty strong:

Dragapult is by far the most threatening new poke at first glance, as I'm sure many knew already.

Aegislash even with being nerfed and loss of toxic, pursuit is gone meaning it has no fear of being trapped.

Hydreigon +2 Dark Pulse/Draco Meteor anyone?

G-Corsola, who with an eviolite slapped on actually works very well with Ferrothorn and Toxapex for a defensive core.

Cinderace once we get Libero, its Hidden Ability.

and lastly..

Barraskewda, who even without rain outspeeds Jolteon...that's crazy! In addition it gets a very nice movepool and is great for Dynamax.

I have some personal favorites like Toxtricity who have great offensive typing, but it'd really need a shift gear to make up for its poor speed, Mamoswine made it into the game, and I really like the grass starter Rillaboom.

Forgot to add Sirfetch'd whom I used during my playthrough. I say because of not only its coverage options in Leaf Blade, Brave Bird, and a SD option but it gets Scrappy as a hidden ability, which if Aegislash is popular Sirfetch'd isn't a poke it can switch into if its using its STAB. This provides it a unique niche over other Mono-fighting types.

Once HAs are released, Rillaboom and Cinderace definitely have some competitive potential. Rillaboom is just a slightly less good Tapu Bulu and Cinderace is going to essentially be a Physical Fire Greninja and Court Change is a very good move too. Intelleon, as much as I prefer it, really got the short stick this gen.

Aegislash will be going back to Ubers one way or another. It was already too good and now there's no Pursuit trapping it. I''m pretty sure that G-Corsola and Dragapult will be the success stories for Ghost types. Runerigas seems to be too similar to Confagrigus to really be a major pick.

Looking at this dex, I feel like we're going to see an uprising of Balance and Stall again honestly. There are not a lot of truly powerful offensive mon available but there's some pretty sold bulky/defensive choices it seems.

I feel like this is a more obvious one, but Ditto's stock potentially on the rise? Stat boosts are running rampant with Dynamaxing, possibility of a Ditto reverse sweep seems like something you should always have in mind/plan for.

Really hope Corsola becomes a thing, I love that 'mon haha.

Barraskewda definitely looking good on paper, maybe I have some personal bias against it though, my in-game Barra was fairly lackluster lmao

Hey I'm new to competitive pokemon and i was wondering how i would go about building a team. Like how should i build it as in around a certain pokemon i like or based on type very new just getting into it on sword and shield

Ok back to the discussion. What do you guys think about Dynamax? Do you think it should be banned? Personally I think it will be banned, and I think it might be kind of meaningless to have meta discussions since it's such a defining part of the metagame right now.

I also don't know about Aegi right now, since both Aegi and King's Shield were nerfed stat-wise and it doesn't get Toxic anymore.

CraftyLizard98 said:

Hey I'm new to competitive pokemon and i was wondering how i would go about building a team. Like how should i build it as in around a certain pokemon i like or based on type very new just getting into it on sword and shield

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Go about building it however you like!

A quick run down of the basics I use when building a team-
1. Have a "niche", whether thats a balanced team with offensive, defensive, and utility mons(my niche), or a hyper offensive one. Have a clear goal in mind with what you want your pokes to accomplish.
2. Make sure you know what mons are popular, and plan for them accordingly in your team. An example of this to make it relevant...if your team has no answer and gets outsped and OHKO'd by a Dynamaxed Gyarados that got a free dragon dance on your switch-in this means your team is weak to Gyarados. (tl;dr Gyarados is apparently a wreckingball atm lol)
3. Playtest and battle with it! Sometimes its more about how you use your pokes then how their set up(not to say that isn't important either!). I wish you luck!

5qwerty said:

Ok back to the discussion. What do you guys think about Dynamax? Do you think it should be banned? Personally I think it will be banned, and I think it might be kind of meaningless to have meta discussions since it's such a defining part of the metagame right now.

I also don't know about Aegi right now, since both Aegi and King's Shield were nerfed stat-wise and it doesn't get Toxic anymore.

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I'm mixed feelings about it for the simple fact that while Dynamaxing is incredibly strong used appropriately, both players have access to it and can use it at any time. At least in my exp on console, moves like Phantom force I've seen used against Dynamaxing to not only stall the 3 turns but also prevent any additional effects Max moves give.

Lil MuDkiP849 said:

I'm mixed feelings about it for the simple fact that while Dynamaxing is incredibly strong used appropriately, both players have access to it and can use it at any time. At least in my exp on console, moves like Phantom force I've seen used against Dynamaxing to not only stall the 3 turns but also prevent any additional effects Max moves give.

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Phantom Force is only good if you can actually get the move off. The most broken Dynamax users will probably be able to outspeed. Though you are right, there are definitely ways of dealing with Dynamax, and Phantom Force is a good choice. It's just that Dynamax is causing a lot restrictions on teambuilding due to the power it brings to players. We have to keep in mind that this is competitive Pokémon and that the more skilled player should be favoured (both in teambuilding and in battling). It feels like crap to lose because the opponent clicked Max Airstream with their Gyara three times. It feels even worse if you are the one with the +3 +3 Gyara and the opponent sends Ditto out. I don't really think either of these are very good and certainly not the highest expression of skill.

I finally got to checking out the tier today and it feels...normal? It almost feels as if Dynamax as a concept is ingrained into my system already, like it's normal for this to exist. It's probably because I have been watching other people battling for two and a half weeks, so I'm used to all the mechanics and Pokémon already.

I still think Dynamax is too strong. It only feels fine because I'm running Sash Magic Guard Trick Room Endeavor Reuniclus and Shuca TTar to deal with the mechanic. I don't even think I've faced anyone truly strong as of yet (currently around 1250 on the ladder) and it's already dumb how much I rely on my Reuniclus to deal with Dynamax-ers. By that, I mean some people aren't even using their Dynamax optimally - I still have yet to experience someone negating their Choice item with Dynamax.

By the way, usage stats are out: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...tats-in-post-944.3656245/page-38#post-8301585
And so is the Dynamax suspect test: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-ou-suspect-process-round-1-boom-boom-pow.3657265/

I feel like these discussions are beneficial to look at.

Also, I got bopped by Bulk Up/Spirit Break/Rest/Sleep Talk Grimmsnarl. I actually want to start experimenting with some Pokémon but Dynamax is still here ugh...

5qwerty said:

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I'm kind of surprised Corviknight is so popular. It seems a tad underwhelming to me every time I look into it.

gimmepie said:

I'm kind of surprised Corviknight is so popular. It seems a tad underwhelming to me every time I look into it.

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You can't deny that Steel/Flying is an extremely good typing - Skarmory and Celesteela were both amazing. Corviknight has more HP but less Defense compared to Skarm, though it also has more SpDef - the base 98 vs the base 65 HP is actually so good. I think the thing that pushes Corviknight into the popular portion of the game is, you guessed it, Dynamax. You can set up with Bulk Up and also get speed boosts with Max Airstream. Some sets also run Power Trip (Dark-type Physical version of Stored Power) so you actually just win sometimes.

I also recommend people to try out Dracovish/Dracozolt. Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak are extremely strong moves that can really just bop your opponent super hard. I think Dracovish is "stronger" even with a lower base Attack since Fishious Rend gets the Strong Jaw boost. If you go first that's like a 200+ BP move before STAB. If you pair that with Rain, you actually can 2HKO or OHKO stuff like Ferrothorn or Toxapex depending on investments and if you have a Choice Band or not. Dracozolt gets Hustle, which I'd rather not play around with.

gimmepie said:

I'm kind of surprised Corviknight is so popular. It seems a tad underwhelming to me every time I look into it.

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Same tbh! With the leaks everybody was crying the new Flying/Steel type was much worse and unusable compared to Skarmory and those complaints didn't age well. Nearly every team I face online has that, Rotom-W/H, and Grimmsnarl. It's a good poke though and can run many sets: Bulk Up, Defog/Taunt, and gets Max Airstream with Steel type STAB if you choose to Dynamax it.

The only poke that has given me headaches with trying to build a balanced team with some checks/counters and some sweepers is Galarian Darmanitan. If its banded, depending on what it gets in on it could bulldoze my team if I have nothing that can outspeed it. On the other hand, if its scarfed? It won't hit as hard, but it'll absolutely be able to get rid of my offense if I have nothing scarfed myself(which Is what I ended up doing anyway.) Then it if needs to, it can dynamax to get around its own choice limitation for coverage >_<. I've tried using Rotom-H on my team as the "go-to" check but people are prepared for that switch-in.

On the topic of Dynamax being broken, the most common all-around answer I've seen people use for it is Mimikyu. I don't use it myself so I can't attest to how it feels, but obviously it works and is something to expect from opponents.

5qwerty said:

You can't deny that Steel/Flying is an extremely good typing - Skarmory and Celesteela were both amazing. Corviknight has more HP but less Defense compared to Skarm, though it also has more SpDef - the base 98 vs the base 65 HP is actually so good. I think the thing that pushes Corviknight into the popular portion of the game is, you guessed it, Dynamax. You can set up with Bulk Up and also get speed boosts with Max Airstream. Some sets also run Power Trip (Dark-type Physical version of Stored Power) so you actually just win sometimes.

I also recommend people to try out Dracovish/Dracozolt. Fishious Rend and Bolt Beak are extremely strong moves that can really just bop your opponent super hard. I think Dracovish is "stronger" even with a lower base Attack since Fishious Rend gets the Strong Jaw boost. If you go first that's like a 200+ BP move before STAB. If you pair that with Rain, you actually can 2HKO or OHKO stuff like Ferrothorn or Toxapex depending on investments and if you have a Choice Band or not. Dracozolt gets Hustle, which I'd rather not play around with.

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This is a good point re: Corviknight and I'm with you on Dracovish. I haven't actually tried the meta yet but I was considering a rain team so maybe I'll try it out with Dracovish.

Dunno if anyone else has run into the Moody spam yet, but damn is it annoying.

Sub+Protect just to try and get the right boosts and win. Glalie even uses Disable just to mess with you. It's not broken, it's just super annoying and I feel like it's not very competitive.

Dunno if anyone else has run into the stupid Moody spam lately. Basically Protect/Sub on Glalie (and I've seen Octillery). Glalie runs Freeze Dry and also Disable. It's not fun to play against if you're not prepared against it, and it basically feels like rolling the dice and seeing if the opponent gets lucky or not.