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Judging religion

Corvus of the Black Night

Wild Duck Pokémon
3,416
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15
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Honestly, religiousness in of itself doesn't really have a right to be criticized. Religion defines the supernatural for many people and cannot even be defined in a scientific context, unless particular parts are taken literally, which, if you are taking religion as a literal history, you're missing the point of religion... A person should be judged individually on what they bring to the table, not what religion they are.

A few things of note, personally:
  • Morals are not based in religious beliefs and people who claim otherwise perhaps have their own shady moral structures.
  • Religious people in of themselves are not necessarily bad, since religious beliefs are often extremely interpretive; however, there is a point where excessive literal readings cause problems. Again, judge case-by-case.
  • Since religion is subject to interpretation, anyone using the Bible or any other religious text to exclaim something is true outside of a religious context is a fairly bigoted individual, usually.
 
900
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  • Age 51
  • Seen Jul 22, 2016
Honestly, religiousness in of itself doesn't really have a right to be criticized. Religion defines the supernatural for many people and cannot even be defined in a scientific context, unless particular parts are taken literally, which, if you are taking religion as a literal history, you're missing the point of religion... A person should be judged individually on what they bring to the table, not what religion they are.

Why should religion not be criticized? It's a man-made construct. Whether religion is definitional or not is irrelevant on its face. Religion is not personal, faith is. The two are distinct even though they are related. You are right that people should be judged individually, but so should any organization or entity that influences the society it exists within. And to do that we look at the leadership of that particular religion, for they are the ones who guild their members into the paths the propose are the only correct ones. There is a whole heck of a lot that I criticize the leadership of many faiths on, especially when it comes to human rights issues.
 

Corvus of the Black Night

Wild Duck Pokémon
3,416
Posts
15
Years
Why should religion not be criticized? It's a man-made construct. Whether religion is definitional or not is irrelevant on its face. Religion is not personal, faith is. The two are distinct even though they are related. You are right that people should be judged individually, but so should any organization or entity that influences the society it exists within. And to do that we look at the leadership of that particular religion, for they are the ones who guild their members into the paths the propose are the only correct ones. There is a whole heck of a lot that I criticize the leadership of many faiths on, especially when it comes to human rights issues.

Again, your examples are better as criticisms of people's behaviour justified by religion than the religion itself. All of those examples exist in some people of religions, but not in all individuals. That's honestly what I'm targeting here. It's very easy to confuse the two, but that doesn't mean they're one in the same.

Religion is beyond criticism in the same way that your favourite colour is beyond criticism - it all lies into personal beliefs with no real solid backing in it besides faith. The way a person utilizes that faith however are completely up for criticism because then you venture outside of the world of just pure "opinion".
 
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  • Age 51
  • Seen Jul 22, 2016
Again, your examples are better as criticisms of people's behaviour justified by religion than the religion itself. All of those examples exist in some people of religions, but not in all individuals. That's honestly what I'm targeting here. It's very easy to confuse the two, but that doesn't mean they're one in the same.

Except where the leadership of these churches are simply following the dictates of their particular religion. How can we not criticize a religion if its dictates demand inequality of the sexes, or condemnation of people for who they love, or if that particular religion dictates that only those who believe in one specific deity shall get to heaven. Sure, an individual or group of individuals probably came up with the rules modern religions abide by, but generations upon generations of people all adhering to the same thing, that's not individualistic. That's communal. That's religion at work.
 

Corvus of the Black Night

Wild Duck Pokémon
3,416
Posts
15
Years
Except where the leadership of these churches are simply following the dictates of their particular religion. How can we not criticize a religion if its dictates demand inequality of the sexes, or condemnation of people for who they love, or if that particular religion dictates that only those who believe in one specific deity shall get to heaven. Sure, an individual or group of individuals probably came up with the rules modern religions abide by, but generations upon generations of people all adhering to the same thing, that's not individualistic. That's communal. That's religion at work.
Again, religion is not an organization; it requires that an individual has faith, and an individual has faith in many possible varieties. Not only this, but the organization is separate from the religion itself. The people who run the organization certainly do not simply run it for having the religion have a physical entity - indeed, this is technically impossible judging from how personal of a subject faith is. The organization often has more mortal issues, such as financial gain, publicity and attempting to quash disagreeing opinions. Not everyone who considers themselves to be a particular faith agree with the organization - indeed, religions like Judaism and Buddhism actually venture far away from a central organizational structure; not to mention the Christian sects that separated themselves from the Pope's reign.

I sorta see where you're going with this now, but I do have to disagree on the fact that religion isn't necessarily something like "the Bible", the Bible is a text written about the religion that describes stories that were passed down from generation to generation. Jesus himself redacted many parts of the old testament though, implying yet again that even though the Bible is a sort of guideline, that it does not imply that Christians must rely on it. Many do not and many support things that are outright objected against in the Bible, such as divorces, gay marriage and working on Sundays.

Ultimately, this is the problem that people have with people trying to "convert" into their way of thinking - since belief and faith is such a personal subject, people do not want to sacrifice their opinion of the universe. Conversion is not about religion but is more about controlling other people and attempting to produce a hivemind.

Just as a minor disclaimer, I'm not religious in any way, I'm simply stating that religion in of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. What leads to problems are selfishness and conquest, which are more traits of human nature than anything.
 
33
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9
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  • Age 31
  • Seen Feb 23, 2017
I think it's okay as long as it's respectful (as said above) and doesn't go into anything personal or starts generalizing people.

Like, you can't say "all atheists are Satan's followers" or "Christians are idiots who believe in a sky fairy". Just keep it clean and debate-like if you're going to say something and/or argue about it.

agreed. i can't stand aggression, sarcasm, or indirect remarks, or blanket statements from either side.

everybody does or doesn't follow something in their own way, there's billions of people in the world and we can't generalize! i don't argue about religion. i personally believe in God, but i have never ever put someone down for believing differently or not at all. the majority of stuff i see on the internet is just full of rage from all ends and i can't stand it. just because someone does or doesn't believe doesn't mean they're a lesser person than you. i know some guys who are real aggro atheists that just shut down and laugh at religion completely. if we have a steady and fair debate we can discuss things without it getting personal. nobody is going to respond if you are condescending or rude.
 
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