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Trump Declares National Emergency

EnglishALT

500
Posts
5
Years
gimmepie said:
How on Earth do you get that from this? He's already straight up said he doesn't actually need to treat this as an emergency and now he's making that even clearer by asking for money anyway now that he's done this. To the left it's further evidence that he's full of muk and to some of the right it's going to look like he's caving in to pressure from the dems.
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Unless he actually removes the state of emergency I cannot see how it looks like a cave. Now if Congress grants the full funds in a timely fashion then he has been proven wrong, that he can get the full amount of funds to properly deal with the emergency at the border with out a declaration. If they do not then it just further underscores his point.

Meanwhile there's been actual disasters that have occurred and he's not only not called an emergency but he's been outright unhelpful. On what planet does this look good for him?
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If you want we can go through each one and compare them to past presidential emergency declarations if you wish.
 
gimmepie

gimmepie

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11
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EnglishALT said:
Unless he actually removes the state of emergency I cannot see how it looks like a cave. Now if Congress grants the full funds in a timely fashion then he has been proven wrong, that he can get the full amount of funds to properly deal with the emergency at the border with out a declaration. If they do not then it just further underscores his point.
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Congress aren't going to give him a dime because there's not an emergency. It looks like he's caving because he's not even acting quickly to deal with his "emergency" - it makes it look like it was all for show.


If you want we can go through each one and compare them to past presidential emergency declarations if you wish.
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How about we compare the numerous deaths and millions of dollars of damage caused by the disasters he doesn't consider emergencies compared to the very few deaths caused by immigrants and the economic positives they provide for the US - including to Trump's own companies because he's a massive hypocrite.

I'm not talking about previous presidents, I'm talking about Trump. Whatever previous leaders did or did not do does not excuse Trump's many failings.
 

EnglishALT

500
Posts
5
Years
gimmepie said:
Congress aren't going to give him a dime because there's not an emergency. It looks like he's caving because he's not even acting quickly to deal with his "emergency" - it makes it look like it was all for show.
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Then you are proving Trump's point that he cannot get the money to handle an emergency through Congress and thus needs to work through other channels to get funds for such an emergency.


How about we compare the numerous deaths and millions of dollars of damage caused by the disasters he doesn't consider emergencies compared to the very few deaths caused by immigrants and the economic positives they provide for the US - including to Trump's own companies because he's a massive hypocrite.
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We can, for example Illegal immigration costs around 82,000 dollars, and illegal immigrants are not represented accurately in crime stats.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...mmigrant-costs-82-191-164-billion-over-decade

https://fairus.org/issue/illegal-im...aliens-commit-crime-much-higher-rate-citizens

I'm not talking about previous presidents, I'm talking about Trump. Whatever previous leaders did or did not do does not excuse Trump's many failings.
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If we are going to establish a base line for emergencies it's proper to compare and contrast when emergencies have been used in past presidencies.
 
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gimmepie

gimmepie

25,503
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EnglishALT said:
Snip
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Studies show that immigrants - illegal or otherwise - are less likely to commit crimes than those born in the US.

http://oxfordre.com/criminology/vie...90264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04818f869b83

Trump did not call a State of Emergency for Hurricane Maria ($91.61 billion), Irma ($64.76 billion) or Harvey ($125 billion) nor for their after effects. Nor was he particularly helpful to the victims - especially those is US occupied territories (weird how he cared the least about the Hispanic people isn't it?).

Illegal immigrants have been beneficial and highly important to the US economy. This is something that we've known since Bush put forward a similar but slightly less ridiculous idea.

http://theconversation.com/why-care...-vital-to-key-sectors-of-the-us-economy-98790
https://www.cfr.org/report/economic...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy

Nevermind that a very sizeable number of the country's illegal immigrants are those that simply overstay their visas and don't leave and a border wall is going to do jackshit about that anyway. It's a huge federal cost from a country that already has debt to worry about for no real benefit.


Nice try with your comparisons but I repeat again, we aren't talking about other Presidents. We're talking about Trump and I'm not playing the whataboutism game. Whatever failings previous Presidents had will never excuse Trump's incompetence and lies.
 

EnglishALT

500
Posts
5
Years
gimmepie said:
Studies show that immigrants - illegal or otherwise - are less likely to commit crimes than those born in the US.

http://oxfordre.com/criminology/vie...90264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04818f869b83
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I cannot see the Washington Post link as it's been paywalled, however your first link seems to focus mostly on immigrants as a whole and not specifically the illegal immigrant community. Furthermore as the FAIR study points out most jurisdictions do not differentiate between illegal and legal immigrants in the information provided about their inmates thus deeper research is needed to show the impact.

Trump did not call a State of Emergency for Hurricane Maria ($91.61 billion), Irma ($64.76 billion) or Harvey ($125 billion) nor for their after effects. Nor was he particularly helpful to the victims - especially those is US occupied territories (weird how he cared the least about the Hispanic people isn't it?).
Click to expand...

Nice try with your comparisons but I repeat again, we aren't talking about other Presidents. We're talking about Trump and I'm not playing the whataboutism game. Whatever failings previous Presidents had will never excuse Trump's incompetence and lies.
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This is where it is important to compare and contrast previous emergencies with other Presidents.

However in terms of State of Emergencies.

Maria.
https://www.newsweek.com/trump-decl...co-hurricane-maria-upgraded-category-5-667332

Irma
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-state-of-emergency-hurricane-irma-2017-9

Harvey
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/08/25/politics/trump-harvey-declaration/index.html


Illegal immigrants have been beneficial and highly important to the US economy. This is something that we've known since Bush put forward a similar but slightly less ridiculous idea.

http://theconversation.com/why-care...-vital-to-key-sectors-of-the-us-economy-98790
https://www.cfr.org/report/economic...s-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy
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They are beneficial in terms of doing hard labor jobs, however as noted their overall costs outweighs any contributions made in terms of pure dollar effects on the taxpayer.

Nevermind that a very sizeable number of the country's illegal immigrants are those that simply overstay their visas and don't leave and a border wall is going to do jackmuk about that anyway. It's a huge federal cost from a country that already has debt to worry about for no real benefit.
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The VISA overstays are a problem however if the border wall stalls even 60 percent of illegal immigration, then it will be well worth it.

It's also worth noting that VISA overstays atleast have proper background screening and are atleast in some way documented, the same cannot be said for the migrant that crosses the desert in the middle of nowhere.
 
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Nah

Nah

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^So basically both the House and the Senate have voted against Trump's emergency declaration now, although not in a large enough margin to prevent Trump from vetoing. Which he obviously will do.
 
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