Isn't Blissey kinda underrated in competitive battling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urJIcjOFC-E

This video. Nothing else. Blissey took so many physical attacks from such strong Pokemon. Okay, if the user's opponent wasn't a newbie, he would at last manage to kill Blissey with Electivire. It is so much common to see an Electivire with Thunder Punch or Cross Chop rather than Thunder. But just see Blissey's toughness! She is certainly Bold with max Def .

Anyway, apart from the video I made a bunch of calculations in smogon's damage calc and it turned up that Blissey can withstand almost any attack aimed at it albeit STAB Fighting kills it - She can survive Low Kick and especially Mach Punch from Hitmonchan though.

She isn't that bad. With max Def she can take physical hits just like max HP Scizor and Spiritomb. She is so versatile with her huge movepool(although physical attacks aren't its cup of tea). She can be a great Sp.Wall and Cleric and Supporter. Wish, Protect, Toxic/Thunderwave, Block(with Toxic), Softboiled, Heal Bell, Counter(it really works and almost always results in OHKO), Heal Pulse, Healing Wish etc etc
Her movepool is so big it allows her to utilize anything she likes. Calm Mind and then sweep. BoltBeam with Serene Grace and Softboiled. Defense Curl or Charm to make it even more tolerant to physical assaults. EVERYTHING!! She can use so many Sp.Attacks with her very acceptable Sp.Att.

Also, she can have variety in her stats. I mean, okay, you always max her Def but then you can either max its HP if you are going to use Wish or max its Sp.Def to make it impenetrable. Or you can split the remaining EVs to both HP and Sp.Def. Or you can split it to Sp.Att and HP. Everything works. Just don't put any in Speed or Att.

So isn't she a bit underrated? I mean look at her. She is so useable and sturdy. Everyone is like 'Blissey is fugly and bad. She dies after a poke' ..

To answer your question
NO.
Everybody uses Blissey in competitive play and the ones who don't, understand how amazing it is. Tbh, I don't know why you would think people think it's not great.

Due to Evolite, it's really outclassed by Chansey (It's only real benefit is leftovers recovery, but thanks to soft-boiled, recovery is very easy) but Blissey is used ALL the time by people. I tend to not like it because, although it's a Spec Def monster and has a bajillion (yes) HP, it's defense is pretty paper thin (BUT HP!!) And has no real source of damage outside of Toxic and Seismic Toss... So it's kinda a one-trick-pony. This makes other walls that have a little more variety, such as Jellicent, a little more desirable. Still, great staller.

Blissey is not underrated. With the current generation, there are just more Pokemon on the offensive side rather than defensive, and thanks to Eviolite, the pre-evolved forms of defensive Pokemons are given the chance to shine. Blissey is just rarely used now, but it was never underrated. It is still considered as a top threat (defensively) because it is very annoying with its bulkiness and a wide move pool of annoying attacks such as T-Wave, Toxic, Softboiled, and even Wish (if you had the Event Chansey back in R/S/E). Blissey only outclasses Chansey since the latter cannot utilize other attacks than Seismic Toss, but Eviolite Chansey can take Physical Attacks better so it can use Counter.

Well okay guys. She is not Underrated in the way you got it. She is still so great at taking special hits and she has humongous HP. She is still a precious Supporter and Sp.Wall.

What I say, is that everyone underrates her ability to take physical hits. I have said that a zillion times but here it is again. When you max her Def and give her a Bold nature she can take physical hits just like a max HP Bold Spiritomb and Scizor or a max Def Bold Spiritomb and slightly more than Scizor.

She can take so many physical hits.
Did you know that a max Def & HP, Bold Blissey can take a max Att Adamant Regigigas/Slaking STAB Giga Impact and a STAB Dynamic Punch(yes) from a max Att Adamant Machamp?? - Albeit, she is going to be like a zombie after these.

Yet everyone says that she falls to physical hits so easily. Think about it. Her role and main reason she was made was to be a Sp.Wall. Yet she can take physical hits as well, although it is not her cup of tea.

Can Skarmory, whose role is to take physical hits, absorb special attacks too? Not really.

I tried to do some calculations and Blissey is OHKO'ed 50% of the time by D.Punch from Machamp. Roughly 9% left HP and she isn't going to do anything more than that, even if Blissey uses a recovery move while taking a DynamicPunch. Machamp can equip Bullet Punch and take that 9% HP left. That's just calculations on 1 on 1 basis though since you mentioned Machamp. But that is Machamp, it can take a hit and cripple Dragonite not carrying Lum Berry and even a Choice Haxorus (but it can OHKO with Outrage however). If you want to know more how Blissey can take a Physical Hit, I suggest you experiment more with it! :D

I found a calculator a while ago and I want you to also experiment with it.
http://masara.byethost15.com/SilverlightDmgCalcTestPage.html

Do you have a fetish for high HP stats?

OreoMaster said:

Can Skarmory, whose role is to take physical hits, absorb special attacks too? Not really.

Click to expand...

Skarmory can wall weak as well as resisted special attacks. There's a reason specially defensive Skarm was the most popular variant last generation. Skarm was able to wall bulky Waters and weaker types of Celebi, Shaymin, etc. It could also sponge Draco Meteors too. Heck, it could probably beat Gengar (without HP Fire) one-on-one.

Back on topic though, everyone realizes that Blissey can absorb physical hits decently, but that doesn't mean she beats any of them. Every decent physical attacker is able to 2HKO her. That gives her a chance to do something before fainting...but what exactly can she do to the opposing Pokémon? Losing 100 HP from Seismic Toss or being Toxic'd isn't a very big deal compared to losing your main special wall. Just because she can survive some physical hits doesn't mean she can beat any physical attacker. Not to mention you will risk losing Blissey just to do that. The best she can do is Toxic stall the opponent with Wish and Protect, but any remotely strong physical Pokémon will still win regardless.

Honestly, I never hit blissey unless I know it will OHKO her, because I know otherwise she'll status me or heal herself with softboiled and leftovers. So her physical defensive capacities never really impress me. If I can't OHKO her, I'll just taunt and toxic her, and wait for her to die or switch out. Eventually she'll be the last one left and then I can toxic her and she can't switch out to heal it with natural cure.

But yeah. Skarmory is a MUCH better physical wall. Why do you think Skarmbliss was (is?) so popular?

You don't want to be relying on blissey to soak up physical attacks, because if the opponent can at least 2HKO you, and catches you on the switch, you'll have to switch out and come back in later at low HP.

And also remember that blissey loses 12.5% of her HP (and that's A LOT for her) plus whatever spikes are on the field, so that has to be factored into what physical attacks can KO her.

She can survive Low Kick and especially Mach Punch from Hitmonchan though.

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But most pokes who use low kick do it because it's the only fighting move available to them (otherwise they would use e.g. close combat or hammer arm). Also, Hitmonchan wouldn't use Mach punch on blissey, he'd use close combat.

So I'd say, can blissey take physical hits? Sometimes, if they're weak enough. But if they're weak enough, I personally wouldn't bother using them since every blissey carries softboiled or wish/protect.

Okay, lets take that from the beginning. And please, read till the end.

First of all, I never said that Blissey is effective and should be used as a Physical Wall. That's insane and suicidal. I just said that,for a Special Wall with such a horrible Def, she can take physical hits quite well. The only way to OHKO her is to use a strong Fighting move from a strong Fighting Pokemon. Non-STAB Fighting moves on her may inflict some damage but they won't be lethal.

As for Machamp here it is Musica.

Max Attack, Adamant Nature, STAB DynamicPunch from Machamp does 92.3% - 109.1% damage to a max HP, max Def Bold Blissey. Mind you, Machamp doesn't hold Life Orb. Of course, you DON'T let you poor Blissey in with a physical sweeper and especially if it's a Fighting type. And yes after SR damage or Sandstorm she will die but that's not the case. We're talking about how well she endures hits under normal conditions.

I repeat. I don't do all these, to convince you that Blissey can be a physical wall. No. It's just to see that Blissey can take an unexpected physical hit.

And now, I will post some damage calculations.
* All from Smogon Damage Calculator.
** The Attacking Pokemon aren't holding an item unless it is written and in bold
*** Blissey is always Max Def, Max HP, Bold Nature.

--

• Max Att Adamant STAB Giga Impact Slaking vs Blissey - 79.6% - 93.8%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Technician STAB Bug Bite Scizor vs Blissey - 61.5% - 72.4%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Cross Chop Scizor vs Blissey - 91% - 107.3% ( Still has a chance to survive)
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Meteor Mash Metagross vs Blissey - 70.2% - 82.8%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB Zen Headbutt Metagross vs Blissey - 74.9% - 88.2%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb DynamicPunch Metagross vs Blissey - 81% - 95.5%
• Max Att Adamant Thick Club STAB Earthquake Marowak vs Blissey - 65.7% - 77.5% ( His Att reaches 568)
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Crabhammer Kingler vs Blissey - 61.5% - 72.4%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Aqua Tail Gyarados vs Blissey - 51.8% - 61.1%
• Max Att Adamant +3 Att STAB Waterfall Gyarados vs Blissey - 88.4% - 104.2% (Has a big chance of survival). *With +2 Att it does 70.7% - 83.3%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Stone Edge Rampardos vs Blissey - 70.7% - 83.3%
• Max Att Adamant STAB Head Smash Rampardos vs Blissey - 81.7% - 96.2%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Rock Wrecker Rhyperior vs Blissey - 93.8% - 110.5%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Megahorn Rhyperior vs Blissey - 57.7% - 67.9%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Earthquake Groudon vs Blissey - 76.1% - 89.5%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Brave Bird Staraptor vs Blissey - 77.3% - 91.2%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Stone Edge Tyranitar vs Blissey - 69.9% - 82.4%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB Crunch Tyranitar vs Blissey - 74.5% - 87.8%
• Max Att Adamant Superpower Tyranitar vs Blissey - 74.5% - 88%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB X-Scissor Scizor vs Blissey - 72.8% - 85.9%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Outrage Dragonite vs Blissey - 72.7% - 85.7% * With Choice Band it does 83.8% - 98.7%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att Life Orb Earthquake Dragonite vs Blissey - 80.7% - 95% *Without Life Orb but with +4 Att it does 93.1% - 109.7%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Megahorn Heracross vs Blissey - 68.9% - 81.2% * With Choice Band it does 79.6% - 93.8%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Sucker Punch Absol vs Blissey - 54.6% - 64.4%

OreoMaster said:

calcs and all the rest

Click to expand...

None of this actually contradicts anything Wolf said in his final paragraph especially, and that basically was a /thread post.

Is there really any purpose in arguing whether not Blissey can occasionally take a physical hit? We're arguing about nothing lol.

nah honestly skarm has kinda taken a fall from grace this gen since all the new fighting types mienshao roob terrak etc can all break through it with a little pressure, and cb terrak cc and mienshao hjk both 2hko
spdef skarm is mainly used to set spikes on stuff it normally wouldnt be able to spike on, such as gastrodon, hp fire celebi and shaymin etc, and even then I remember pdc telling me its pretty overrated as it stands
anyways blissey taking physical hits is only a one time thing, it cant continually take them, plus a more balanced spread in terms of def and spdef is optimal this gen as there are more potent special attackers such as specstoed, specs latios, psyshock alakazam and the like. if you want to have a special wall that can use its hp for taking physical hits better, then use eviolite chansey, which is generally better overall, but it's niche really only lies in rain or sun stall teams since the 6% from sand or hail [since it has eviolite and not lefties] really becomes detrimental throughout a match

OreoMaster said:

• Max Att Adamant STAB Giga Impact Slaking vs Blissey - 79.6% - 93.8%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Technician STAB Bug Bite Scizor vs Blissey - 61.5% - 72.4%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Cross Chop Scizor vs Blissey - 91% - 107.3% ( Still has a chance to survive)
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Meteor Mash Metagross vs Blissey - 70.2% - 82.8%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB Zen Headbutt Metagross vs Blissey - 74.9% - 88.2%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb DynamicPunch Metagross vs Blissey - 81% - 95.5%
• Max Att Adamant Thick Club STAB Earthquake Marowak vs Blissey - 65.7% - 77.5% ( His Att reaches 568)
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Crabhammer Kingler vs Blissey - 61.5% - 72.4%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Aqua Tail Gyarados vs Blissey - 51.8% - 61.1%
• Max Att Adamant +3 Att STAB Waterfall Gyarados vs Blissey - 88.4% - 104.2% (Has a big chance of survival). *With +2 Att it does 70.7% - 83.3%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Stone Edge Rampardos vs Blissey - 70.7% - 83.3%
• Max Att Adamant STAB Head Smash Rampardos vs Blissey - 81.7% - 96.2%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Rock Wrecker Rhyperior vs Blissey - 93.8% - 110.5%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band Megahorn Rhyperior vs Blissey - 57.7% - 67.9%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Earthquake Groudon vs Blissey - 76.1% - 89.5%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Brave Bird Staraptor vs Blissey - 77.3% - 91.2%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Stone Edge Tyranitar vs Blissey - 69.9% - 82.4%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB Crunch Tyranitar vs Blissey - 74.5% - 87.8%
• Max Att Adamant Superpower Tyranitar vs Blissey - 74.5% - 88%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att STAB X-Scissor Scizor vs Blissey - 72.8% - 85.9%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Outrage Dragonite vs Blissey - 72.7% - 85.7% * With Choice Band it does 83.8% - 98.7%
• Max Att Adamant +2 Att Life Orb Earthquake Dragonite vs Blissey - 80.7% - 95% *Without Life Orb but with +4 Att it does 93.1% - 109.7%
• Max Att Adamant Life Orb STAB Megahorn Heracross vs Blissey - 68.9% - 81.2% * With Choice Band it does 79.6% - 93.8%
• Max Att Adamant Choice Band STAB Sucker Punch Absol vs Blissey - 54.6% - 64.4%

Click to expand...

To be fair, only two of those Attacks are even super effective, and all of them leave Blissey to be KO'd the very next turn if it doesn't heal off damage immediately. I get that Blissey takes hits better than a lot of Pokémon, but why not just go to a better physical wall and leave Chamsey to sponge special attacks like it does best?

First of all, we are not arguing about nothing. Arguing about nothing would be discussing whether Blissey can take a special attack,not physical. The whole point is to show whether Blissey can withstand an unexpected strong physical hit and survive so as to either use Softboiled and switch out or use Counter and kill the foe.

Furthermore, tj4bigred you are not being fair. You do realise that Blissey has a chance of surviving against a Choice Banded Scizor's Cross Chop and a Life Orb Metagross DynamicPunch, right? As I said before, Blissey can also take a Machamp's DynamicPunch, albeit without an item.

You completely ignore the fact that Blissey doesn't get OHKOed after such powerful STAB attacks from the most powerful attackers ever,including Rhyperior, Slaking and Rampardos. She survives. And they either hold a Choice Band or a Life Orb or their Att is boosted. She can take Rock Wrecker, Head Smash, Giga Impact, Megahorn, Thick Club Earthquake and all of them STAB from extremely strong opponents.

Her role isn't being a physical wall, I remind. But she can take an unexpected hit and switch or counter back.

Requility, I understand what you say and I agree because indeed Blissey will rarely, if ever, going to face a Rampardos or a Slaking. But just think. I posted the damage that the most powerful attackers can do to Blissey with their most powerful STAB Attacks while also holding an Item. So if Blissey can take a Head Smash from Rampardos then it is very possible that she can take a Stone Edge from Terrakion or Earthquake from Landorus. Okay, she can't take Fighting attacks. I have made it clear long ago. But she still has a chance to Counter back a strong atack KOing out the foe.

The Pokemon I mentioned(Rampardos,Rhyperior etc) aren't OU not because of their Att stat but because of their total performance. They aren't good enough. But offensively speaking they are much stronger than any other OU Pokemon in terms of Att. So, since Att is the only stat that determines the damage a move will do to a Pokemon, I am pretty sure that Blissey can survive some hits from the not-as-strong OU physical sweepers.

Unexpected strong physical attack? If I'm using Blissey, I don't keep it in to use Softboiled against a Pokemon with high attack and a SE move.

And what good does barely surviving do when it's easily taken out the following turn? Yes, Blissey is a good Pokemon. But why are you trying so hard to convince people about its physical defense merits?

Well I really don't know what is so, so hard to understand.

Vrai, the first two moves I mentioned in the post you quoted, aren't STAB indeed. They are Super-Effective. STAB increases the power of the attack by 1.5x while super effectiveness doubles it(2x). So logically a Cross Chop from Scizor does more damage to Blissey than a Technician Bug Bite. This applies to Metagross too. A STAB Meteor Mash from Metagross does less damage than a DynamicPunch to Blissey. So, I can't get why you are complaining about this.

Also the fact that some of the Pokemon aren't in OU and the attacks used are never used in competitive battling isn't a problem. They are still extremely powerful Pokemon(stronger than OU Pokemon) and they still use STAB powerful attacks. So if a Blissey can survive their super powerful STAB attacks then it can easily take a hit from an OU Pokemon which is weaker than Slaking and doesn't use attacks with 150 BP.
Oh and Rampardos doesn't OHKO her. I don't know what you did there but it really doesn't. Mind you, Rampardos doesn't hold an item.
Hammer Arm(a Non-STAB yet Super Effective attack) LO Metagross deals 81% - 95.5% damage. After SR, yes it can KO her. But I said before that we are talking only about the moves themselves. No SR,Sandstorm etc
And I used Cross Chop because everyone knows that a Superpower from Scizor OHKOs Blissey. It's no use stating the obvious.

Um, I don't know why you are underestimating the damage a non-STAB, Super Effective attack can do to Blissey. Actually an attack that is STAB yet not SE will do less damage than an attack(same BP) that is SE yet not STAB.
The only way for an attack to be both STAB and SE against Blissey is a Fighting Pokemon using a Fighting attack. In this case, I made it clearer than water that you should not even think about leaving her in and that she would never endure it.

So your complaints about the attacks being non-STAB is kinda moot.

tj4bigred, yes what is so odd about an unexpected physical attack? You know, not everyone is your typical smogon-movesets-for-ever battler. Some can get more creative and original. So he switches in a Pokemon that you would never suspect about using physical attacks. Yet there it goes and uses Stone Edge(example). See? It is unexpected. I never said leaving you Blissey in physical attackers.

Barely surviving is certainly better than dying. At least it can get the chance to switch in when a special attacker is in and use Softboiled or be passed a Wish or use Softboiled in the same turn so as to regain health and then switch back or even use Counter to kill the opponent.

Anyway, I am not trying too hard. I am just arguing with you and others.