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MAJOR Explosion at Boston Marathon

5,983
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15
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The tourniquet isn't professional because as a bystander, you don't come equipped with a tie stick. You rip off articles of you own clothing and make do with what you have. If this was acting, they probably would have overproduced by having everybody use proper equipment.

People give directions because they're trained to be first responders. One of the things you have to do is order random bystanders to call 9/11 or get help because you are preoccupied with helping the victim. Also, blood is really that red. I've seen what my own blood looks like on the ground in decently large quantities. The camera sensor can also have a part to play in how it turned out in the photo.

Also the last part about Vogt vs. Bauman. Whoever wrote this article is on crack or needs glasses. They do not have the same hairline. Vogt clearly has a lot more forehead, but I guess the author found it in him or herself to outright lie. And Vogt has straight hair while Bauman has curly hair.
 

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
21,082
Posts
17
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About Lt. Vogt, I'll let these guys speak instead: http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/boston.asp#vogt

Continuing from where BIS left it right before me, the guy does look very pale, due to, I don't know, losing a ton of blood? I'm not a doctor- I don't know whether the guy writing that is either because it's just a random unknown writing on the Internet who could be pretending to be Margaret Thatcher if they wanted to. Also the "it's fake blood because I say so" part doesn't convince too much. And the Holywood Spy Movie "signals in 10 frames" thing sounds too stupid. Also tehre is a more logical explanation: they were just people in shock trying to react. Oh, and the glasses? To protect his eyes from the dust. I have no idea, I'm just trying to find a logical explanation that doesn't involve actors and "flashing powder" (and it's not taking me too much brainpower to do so).

Anything else to prove your point?
 

Crux

Evermore
1,302
Posts
11
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This pisses me off.
In this day and age you're either a sheep, or berated as an idiot who's entirerly wrong.

Proscribing so heavily to the explaination you've been given is no better then completely dismissing it.
In fact, it's worse. Why, you ask? Because you stop thinking.

Rain dancer, you should know better then to throw pearls.

And the rest of you, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
You occupy your minds with false beliefs because you agree with them, and you close your eyes to anything that doesn't fit in with your picture.
Maybe you are right, maybe this entire thing has been answered, and the government is all happy friendly to it's people and they would never lie to us.
But maybe your not. You acknowledge that possibility, right?
Now, on the chance that you're wrong, would you rather that everybody just swallowed this explaination and this whole thing was forgotten?
Answer that question for yourself. Hell, think about it.
But know you this, every great mind, every man who has changed the world, has done so by letting go of their fear to be wrong.

Livewire, whilst as I'm sure you are tempted to delete this post, and may well, I ask that you leave it up. At the very least maybe it'll be shocking enough to turn gears.
But I don't know, maybe I'm just an idiot.
 
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Caelus

Gone
2,691
Posts
15
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  • Seen May 26, 2013
I fail to see how there can be any conspiracy about it. Every argument I've read saying it's a conspiracy can get refuted if you've done your research. Like the one with that principal at Sandy Hook; I can't really disprove that for I didn't watch it, but did that person ever think that maybe they were referencing her? The words on the screen don't always go with the image and Newport is pretty close to Boston, so maybe Donna was running the marathon in honor of her?


The only conspiracy that I can understand is why was the backpack black when Johar had a white backpack. My two theories are that it's either Tamerlan's backpack (he had a black one) or when it exploded the backpack went inside-out, showing the black interior instead (don't even know if that's possible but it's only a theory of mine).



On a related note, Johar is telling them that the attacks were inspired by religion (no surprise) and that they were defending their faith. There's still several unanswered questions but at least he's talking.
 
10,769
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In this day and age you're either a sheep, or berated as an idiot who's entirerly wrong.
It's funny you say that because it sounds like you're berating people who believe it wasn't a government plot as idiots who are entirely wrong.

I don't see any problem with believing it was an attack by two brothers. That kind of things has happened before, and will sadly probably happen again. That collage of images with lines and circles that was in a link posted earlier on this page doesn't convince me that it means anything. Like was said, they're not dated, timestamped, or anything like that. They show... what? Backpacks? Most backpacks are pretty similar. With a crowd like there was I'm sure there were plenty of backpacks. People looking "away" in a still photo? That doesn't mean anything, people can have their attention caught by anything and glance at it in a moment, or just turn their heads because they have an itch or anything. There's just conjecture and nothing definitive. It feels more like a story that people went looking for evidence of than a conclusion of people who were open to all the evidence and wanted to know what happened.
 

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
8,123
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19
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If it's a conspiracy, what's... the point of it exactly? Government did it just for fun? Wouldn't they have had to gain something out of it?

And the lock-down wasn't a big deal. It was voluntary (or strongly-encouraged)

Also, pictures of people not looking at the race? Really? That's suspicious. You know what? I don't like sports. I've been to more sporting events than I can count and for pretty much all of them I'm distracted by the rotating advertisement boards. You wouldn't be able to get a picture of me looking at the field, court, what have you. And if I was at the marathon, it'd probably be because I had a family member running. And if they weren't crossing at the moment, then I'm sure as hell not watching for people I don't know or care about. I'll be doing something on my phone most likely or looking around for a doughnut shop. It isn't suspicious. Jeez

Even with that other guy people were fixated on for a bit. The guy running away without helping anyone. If I was on my own (and whoever I was waiting for at the finish line wasn't there at the time) then I'd be doing the same thing. A bomb just went off. I wouldn't know what could possibly be happening next. So, I'd be sure to get my butt out of there before something else possibly blows up. If I was there with family for instance, yes I'd help them and make sure we're all safe. But, if not? You're on your own, sorry. I'm running away to safety.
 
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5,983
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To add to what TRIFORCE89 said, it can be very hard for bystanders to act properly. Many of them are probably caught in a loop between running away and trying to help. Ultimately you can feel stupid for standing around doing nothing, which would explain why one of the men kind of stood there for minutes before helping. A situation like a bomb would be the perfect scenario to showcase how irrational and instinctual man can be.
 

Alice

(>^.(>0.0)>
3,077
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15
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I'm no sheep. I question every action the government takes, and disagree with most of them. I'm even willing to give conspiracy theories a listen, but life isn't as mystical as you think. There is no magic in this world. The people running our governments are just that: people. Just like you and me. There is no way they could cover up the majority of the conspiracy theories I hear, or control all of our lives without us knowing. It's just not possible for humans to do.

That said, through the media and politics, they can control far more than I'd like... but these are all relatively small things, like changing laws, and more importantly, they're all done for the same reason, whether it be individuals or corporations: money. So that begs the question; where was the money in the Boston Bombings? Or perhaps intentionally arresting the wrong people? (Who just so happened to be the suspects the FBI identified, posses multiple explosives, USE those explosives against police, and not attempt to clear their name at all.) I don't see how anyone (important) could have profited from this.
 
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Rain Dancer

Wanderer
51
Posts
11
Years
And the lock-down wasn't a big deal. It was voluntary (or strongly-encouraged)

*Knocks on your door followed by screams, you open.*

*A loaded assault rifle is pointed at your face*

OUT OF THE HOUSE! NOW!
HANDS UP! MOVE, GO GO GO!

*Officers storm your house and take your family outside by gunpoint*

You can't leave the house; and if you're out, you can't go in. You can get arrested for any reason, many were because they were walking in the wrong areas. Your property is momentarily seized as you, horrified, come to the realization that nothing you 'own' is really yours, when those in power have the authority to do as they please with you and all you have.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2be_1366536241

It probably isn't a big deal, you say? Oh, it's for national security?
Keep sleeping and pay your taxes, prisoner.

It's funny you say that because it sounds like you're berating people who believe it wasn't a government plot as idiots who are entirely wrong.

I don't see any problem with believing it was an attack by two brothers. That kind of things has happened before, and will sadly probably happen again. That collage of images with lines and circles that was in a link posted earlier on this page doesn't convince me that it means anything. Like was said, they're not dated, timestamped, or anything like that. They show... what? Backpacks? Most backpacks are pretty similar. With a crowd like there was I'm sure there were plenty of backpacks. People looking "away" in a still photo? That doesn't mean anything, people can have their attention caught by anything and glance at it in a moment, or just turn their heads because they have an itch or anything. There's just conjecture and nothing definitive. It feels more like a story that people went looking for evidence of than a conclusion of people who were open to all the evidence and wanted to know what happened.

Most backpacks are pretty similar?

WRONG.

Evidence:
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/201...ry-proves-dzhokhar-is-innocent-a-photo-essay/

More pearls.
Why is everyone so seemingly afraid to analyze the evidence that's out there that contradicts the "official" story? What do you fear?

That your whole lives were based on lies?

If this is not evidence to you, -photo and video evidence-, let me say.. Then what is? Blind trust on the system and media?

Well that sounds like a religious belief.


If we were to discuss about possible motives the government may have to make these acts, well, that's another different topic, and a broad one. This thread is about the Boston bombings, let's keep it at that. ;)
 
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Bounsweet

Fruit Pokémon
2,103
Posts
16
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  • Seen Sep 17, 2018
Someone needs a chill pill.

You can't get arrested for just any reason. Law doesn't work that way. There were people getting their panties in a bunch about the 4th Amendment but their reasoning for searching homes was very well justified given the nature of the victim's little disappearance for roughly 12 hours. They were taking above and beyond precautions to locating Dzhokhar and I commend them for that.

Also, I personally don't feel like a prisoner. Maybe in your eyes you see Americans as such but I really don't and I'm actually happy that our government took such drastic measures to apprehending a man known for bombing, shooting, and even running over his own brother and dragging him for about 20 feet. But hey! If you wouldn't want your government to make every effort in apprehending them then by all means you're free to feel that way.

Neither of your sites seem reputable by any means, either. They're mostly shock effect conspiracy theories.

Sorry but pretty much everything your posting is easily debunked. The evidence is there that this was an attack by two brothers. I also heard that Dzhokhar has given a report that the reasoning behind the attacks was religious motivation. That's entirely legit given their background and the brother's activity in Russia and online. That's it, and if you feel that there is a whole background of government sleuth and conspiracy then frankly friend, that's your problem.
 

Rain Dancer

Wanderer
51
Posts
11
Years
That would be too easy Azalea. Claim all the information is coming from low reputable internet sites and you just solved this whole thing? Well.. Thing is most to all of those pictures were published in the mainstream media too.

If I was to "de-bunk" all of this, also.. It wouldn't be easy at all. Sorry.
Perhaps you'd like to lend a hand?

You just can't come up with lazy explanations like this to prove your beliefs. Give me proof. Not the official story, not the speculations, but pictures, theories that make sense.

People were treated like prisoners there in Boston, with guns pointed at them, that's fact. Most didn't feel like it, though, they thought they were doing the right thing, and it's perfectly fine to feel that way.


About Lt. Vogt, I'll let these guys speak instead: http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/boston.asp#vogt

Continuing from where BIS left it right before me, the guy does look very pale, due to, I don't know, losing a ton of blood? I'm not a doctor- I don't know whether the guy writing that is either because it's just a random unknown writing on the Internet who could be pretending to be Margaret Thatcher if they wanted to. Also the "it's fake blood because I say so" part doesn't convince too much. And the Holywood Spy Movie "signals in 10 frames" thing sounds too stupid. Also tehre is a more logical explanation: they were just people in shock trying to react. Oh, and the glasses? To protect his eyes from the dust. I have no idea, I'm just trying to find a logical explanation that doesn't involve actors and "flashing powder" (and it's not taking me too much brainpower to do so).

Anything else to prove your point?

Perhaps he was supposed to look pale; his legs we ripped apart.

But, allright, whoever he was, how is he still alive?
And because of it, he should be spurting blood like a fountain, with wounds like that. No, I mean, actual, real blood. The dark one, plenty of gore too.. not that shiny red thing, whatever it is.

Coming form the doctors:

"If you loose both your legs from explosive trauma half your blood is gone in one minute via the femoral arteries, you're dead after two. Bleeding out is worse with blunt force trauma (like shrapnel) because flesh is torn rather than cut, exposing more arterial and vascular tissue. The human body holds 5 to 6 LITERS of blood. If that really happened, you would see blood EVERYWHERE, the guy would be drenched in it. You would also see what's called arterial spurting from the injury. Most likely he would vomit after turning ghost white from shock, then turning delirious or passing out. As for the "tourniquet"…

It's not even tied off, it's suspended via gravity, which would literally do nothing to an arterial sever. There's no pressure applied. There's no knot with a turn stick for leverage. You can clearly see a gap in the nonexistent wrap job on his left inner thigh (left anterior proximal for you experts). His hands have no blood on them. There's no blood on the ground. The color in his hands and lips shows good circulation.

No blood is present. The bone is dry, no blood on his leg above the knee, no blood on the woman, no arterial spurt, nothing."
 
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Yusshin

♪ Yggdrasil ♪
2,414
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14
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Is there any evidence he actually did anything religious in Russia? His mother or aunt (can't remember) claims he went to renew his passport (or something similar); his trip was prolonged simply because he wanted to stay a little longer, which I don't think is suspicious. It only becomes suspicious in the bombing context because imo some people try to fish for details to puzzle together a scenario that satisfies them. Human nature.

Have not read anyone in Russia claiming to have seen him doing terrorist activities, "training" or hanging out with the bad sort. His father is convinced it's a set-up.

I just want to know what evidence there is that he was actually "in training" for terrorist acts in Russia.
 

Bounsweet

Fruit Pokémon
2,103
Posts
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  • Seen Sep 17, 2018
His "terrorist" nature is a little more homegrown from what I saw on the news last night. He had an acquaintance in the Boston area who was also of Islamic belief and convinced him to stop drinking, give up boxing, etc. They're trying to locate him but have had no success yet. The whole background with the brother is a little hazy right now, but what's throwing red flags up about his visit was that two years ago the FBI was tipped by the Russian government that Tamerlan may be up to extremist activities.
 

Ivysaur

Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
21,082
Posts
17
Years
We are not "afraid" that "our whole lives" were based on lies. We don't think that the Government "always says the absolute truth". There is a loooooooooooooooot of different colours and shades between "sheep" and "berated idiots".

I can't speak for everybody in here who supports the official version, but in my case this is what I think:
-First of all, the Government is not a magical alien thing full of inhuman beings. In a democratic country, specially one with a complex system of checks and balances as the US, Governments are supposed to be composed of normal people which can be elected and dismissed every few years. There certainly are corrupt Governments out there who lie and manipulate for their lives, as a way of controlling population, in places without any citizen supervision. The US though, has a powerful legislative and a heavily inquisitorial media who would eat them alive if caught lying (see: Nixon, Clinton, Bush).

In other words, I can believe that there can be corrupt officials, or that every politican will try to paint their actions in the best light to get their points across or just to be reelected. But that's human nature, and that's why we can vote them out if we feel they are too human.

What I just cannot understand though, is the idea that the Government is part of a crazy millenial plot orchestrated by some mysterious people in charge of everything and who are behind everything that happens. Mostly because you can't keep such a ridiculously complex plot going on indefinitely. Quoting Lincoln: "It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

tl;dr: If a Government lied to us all the time, we'd end up finding out and voting their asses out of our way. Nixon demonstrated.

- Second: trust. It is bad to blindly believe everything you are told is true all the time; it is equally as bad to blindly believe everything you are told is false all the time.

As human beings, we deposit trust on other people. You go to a doctor who has studied a career in medicine because you trust he'll know about your illness, you go to a lawyer who has an official degree because you think he'll advice you properly, you go to a restaurant people have recommended because you trust X people won't be too wrong about your tastes. In this case, people will trust investigators with investigating cases and their elected officials with managing politics.

It's true that some people will not go to doctors because they believe in Chinese energy therapies, will reject lawyers as they believe they'll try to undermine them instead and won't go to any restaurants in fear of being poisoned or will believe a random guy on the interwebz who claims to know the truth instead of a police speakperson, but most people will "put their defenses down" and generally give trust to people until they break it. It's not a matter of "brainwashing", just of human nature. We live in societies, we can't be wary of everybody all the time. It's not healthy.

So now let's go into the actual case. I saw:

- A fairly large, chaotic and complex situation that would have required from insane coordination if it was an act, but would have been perfectly natural if it had just been what it looks like, a situation of chaos.
- Policemen and investigators, who are supposed to investigate, conducting an investigation and arriving to some results. Since I haven't followed their logic, I can't be sure they arrested the right people, and I know they have made mistakes very, very often in the past, so I won't just accept everything they say. But then the suspects happen to be included in a terrorist watchlist since 2011, attack policemen, do nothing to clear their names, and even accept their involvement. Since I don't know exactly how the investigation was developed but there were lost of people watching and reporting live, several witnesses to the interrogations, etc, I'm inclined to believe them.

-In turn, I see people resorting to undated ("naked suspect", which could have been taken in 2008 for all we know), partial ("unharmed suspect", where we can only see a side), blurry pictures (virtually all of them), some of them openly manipulated (see: picture of the Sandy Hook principal, which is photoshopped), misjudged ("Army Lt."), etc., and my opinion is: "Oh, look, people already made a picture of an "Evulz Guvmint Lie" and are looking everywhere for any small detail they can twist into serving their narrative". Most of all, all reasons seem to be designed from the basis that everything was a lie. This is not a logical sequence of pictures, details and all assembled in a way to open the possibility of a cover up; it's a bunch of pictured assembled from the basis that everything was a lie and therefore there must be errors somewhere.

- Then, there is Occam's Razor: the easiest explanation for anything is usually the correct one. There is no saying which is easier: two crazies setting off two bombs for ideological reasons or thousands of people staging an evil plot for some reason.

- Furthermore, there is no real explanation for this. The "declaring martial law" thing would be okay except no martial law has been declared anywhere that I know of and "turing the US into a dictatorship" has the small problem of being illegal and unconstitutional, meaning any lowly district judge from Alabama has the power to overturn that declaration, the Congress can impeach him and the political pressure from everywhere would be barely bearable- not to mention that would be most likely to create a civil war scenario as a huge chunk of armed people in the US are either independent or under States' jurisdiction.

Taking our gunzz? Well, again, it's unconstitutional, and if *insert number of people dead in shootings as of now* hasn't been enough of a reason for the Republicans to accept even some small gun control measures, three more people WON'T change a thing- and indeed haven't.

"Covering up" the fact that the Republican-controlled House has passed CISPA for the second time in a year? Well, that's kind of stupid as a) the House passing a law doesn't mean anything in itself, and b) the Ivulz Democratic Guvmnt does not support it and, in fact, would profit from going all "hey look, the Republicans are passing this law. Young people/internet users mostly from cities, this goes against your interests! Vote for us, we'll overturn it again!" on TV. They gain nothing from "covering it up"! And, in case you didn't hear it, it was the Democratic-held Senate that voted CISPA down less than one year ago and made that law passed by the House a worthless piece of trash paper. And the same Senate controlled by the same people is planning to do the same thing this year with the law the House just passed. And the evul leader of the Guvmint, Obama, has vowed to veto that law since, you know, without his signature, any law is a worthless piece of trash paper.

So we have a extraordinarly intrincate plot, that would require thousands of people from several agencies, the army, the police, the administration, you name it, being "in the know" and not telling anybody; and instead making stupid mistakes as "not feeding the right info to TV's" or "allowing witnesses to see the truth" and even take pictures of it, which sounds incredibly amateurish for such a complex plot.

And we don't know any logical reason why the Government would do that when they already have enough power of their own, and their actions do not follow the sinister "martial law coming any day now!!" theories, which have been said a million times with no martial law having been declared yet.

In the 30's, the German Parliament caught fire and Hitler took the chance to blame a communist, send all communists MP's to jail or just kill them, and illegalize the party, reducing the amount of votes he'd need to pass a law declaring himself dictator, as it finally happened once he managed to get rid of enough opposition MP's. I can understand conspiracy theories arising then as the Government had a very good reason to do so, profited handsomely from the event and was perfectly capable of pulling it off, since it only required one crazy grunt and the Nazi Party had thousands of those at their disposal. But here? I don't see any way in which a conspiracy theory would make sense other than the general mindset of "the Government is always evil and everything bad that happens must be their fault somehow". And I can't follow that logic, sorry.

Also- just saw the update. Who is that doctor anyway? A guy calling himself a doctor on the internet talking about pictures and off-hand descriptions of the event? Sounds something I wouldn't doubt a second to ignore when writing any story at work.

(Also dropping this here: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#51653479 )
 
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10,769
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14
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Sorry, I don't care to read through all of that without some assurance there is evidence there and not speculation. Could you point to where exactly your evidence is on the website you provided? Or at least give me your summary of it so that I can have that in mind if I care to look into it further? I must say though that I'm pretty skeptical of the conclusions of anyone without access to the actually physical evidence (that is, access to the space itself and being able to make their own photos and measurements and all of that). The online evidence is necessarily incomplete and that makes me very wary about accepting any conclusion based on armchair detectives.
 

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
8,123
Posts
19
Years
*Knocks on your door followed by screams, you open.*

*A loaded assault rifle is pointed at your face*

OUT OF THE HOUSE! NOW!
HANDS UP! MOVE, GO GO GO!

*Officers storm your house and take your family outside by gunpoint*

You can't leave the house; and if you're out, you can't go in. You can get arrested for any reason, many were because they were walking in the wrong areas. Your property is momentarily seized as you, horrified, come to the realization that nothing you 'own' is really yours, when those in power have the authority to do as they please with you and all you have.

It probably isn't a big deal, you say? Oh, it's for national security?
Keep sleeping and pay your taxes, prisoner.
You don't get arrested for any reason. What fantasy land are you living in? That's not how things worse no matter how much you may think that's true.

You can leave your house. The guy who found the suspect, left his house and went outside and found him the boat. And if you leave your house why wouldn't you be able to enter it again? Did you lock yourself out? The government doesn't control your door locks O_o

Property wasn't seized. They didn't even look through drawers and cupboards.

You bring up some example of abuse, and I won't doubt you as I have no way of proving it wrong 100%. But, I'd say that if that happened there's more to it than that article is letting on. Like maybe the home owner was threatening or hostile? Beyond that though, just as you come across that example I've come across examples where the family was in the house going about their business as the officials investigated.

And, where I live we recently had a bug infestation that was damaging trees. We'd receive a short phone call or a little message taped to our front door saying that someone will be in our backyard that day or week to see if we had infected trees, so don't be alarmed. It isn't unusual.

Still not seeing what the point would be if this was all some kind of cover up. What did the government gain? They just felt like doing it for fun? There's a key part of your puzzle here that you're not sharing
 

Crux

Evermore
1,302
Posts
11
Years
I was going to come here to post a long explaination, spelling it out plain for you but, know what, nevermind. I give up.

Scarf, I never called any of you stupid, as I know full well that at least some of you are intelligent.
I was telling you to continue thinking, thinking is the difference between being human, and puppet.

For those of you saying that the government would be incapable of keeping secrets, and telling lies:
"No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth." - John F. Kennedy
 

Rain Dancer

Wanderer
51
Posts
11
Years
We are not "afraid" that "our whole lives" were based on lies. We don't think that the Government "always says the absolute truth". There is a loooooooooooooooot of different colours and shades between "sheep" and "berated idiots".

I can't speak for everybody in here who supports the official version, but in my case this is what I think:
-First of all, the Government is not a magical alien thing full of inhuman beings. In a democratic country, specially one with a complex system of checks and balances as the US, Governments are supposed to be composed of normal people which can be elected and dismissed every few years. There certainly are corrupt Governments out there who lie and manipulate for their lives, as a way of controlling population, in places without any citizen supervision. The US though, has a powerful legislative and a heavily inquisitorial media who would eat them alive if caught lying (see: Nixon, Clinton, Bush).

In other words, I can believe that there can be corrupt officials, or that every politican will try to paint their actions in the best light to get their points across or just to be reelected. But that's human nature, and that's why we can vote them out if we feel they are too human.

What I just cannot understand though, is the idea that the Government is part of a crazy millenial plot orchestrated by some mysterious people in charge of everything and who are behind everything that happens. Mostly because you can't keep such a ridiculously complex plot going on indefinitely. Quoting Lincoln: "It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

tl;dr: If a Government lied to us all the time, we'd end up finding out and voting their asses out of our way. Nixon demonstrated.

- Second: trust. It is bad to blindly believe everything you are told is true all the time; it is equally as bad to blindly believe everything you are told is false all the time.

As human beings, we deposit trust on other people. You go to a doctor who has studied a career in medicine because you trust he'll know about your illness, you go to a lawyer who has an official degree because you think he'll advice you properly, you go to a restaurant people have recommended because you trust X people won't be too wrong about your tastes. In this case, people will trust investigators with investigating cases and their elected officials with managing politics.

It's true that some people will not go to doctors because they believe in Chinese energy therapies, will reject lawyers as they believe they'll try to undermine them instead and won't go to any restaurants in fear of being poisoned or will believe a random guy on the interwebz who claims to know the truth instead of a police speakperson, but most people will "put their defenses down" and generally give trust to people until they break it. It's not a matter of "brainwashing", just of human nature. We live in societies, we can't be wary of everybody all the time. It's not healthy.

So now let's go into the actual case. I saw:

- A fairly large, chaotic and complex situation that would have required from insane coordination if it was an act, but would have been perfectly natural if it had just been what it looks like, a situation of chaos.
- Policemen and investigators, who are supposed to investigate, conducting an investigation and arriving to some results. Since I haven't followed their logic, I can't be sure they arrested the right people, and I know they have made mistakes very, very often in the past, so I won't just accept everything they say. But then the suspects happen to be included in a terrorist watchlist since 2011, attack policemen, do nothing to clear their names, and even accept their involvement. Since I don't know exactly how the investigation was developed but there were lost of people watching and reporting live, several witnesses to the interrogations, etc, I'm inclined to believe them.

-In turn, I see people resorting to undated ("naked suspect", which could have been taken in 2008 for all we know), partial ("unharmed suspect", where we can only see a side), blurry pictures (virtually all of them), some of them openly manipulated (see: picture of the Sandy Hook principal, which is photoshopped), misjudged ("Army Lt."), etc., and my opinion is: "Oh, look, people already made a picture of an "Evulz Guvmint Lie" and are looking everywhere for any small detail they can twist into serving their narrative". Most of all, all reasons seem to be designed from the basis that everything was a lie. This is not a logical sequence of pictures, details and all assembled in a way to open the possibility of a cover up; it's a bunch of pictured assembled from the basis that everything was a lie and therefore there must be errors somewhere.

- Then, there is Occam's Razor: the easiest explanation for anything is usually the correct one. There is no saying which is easier: two crazies setting off two bombs for ideological reasons or thousands of people staging an evil plot for some reason.

- Furthermore, there is no real explanation for this. The "declaring martial law" thing would be okay except no martial law has been declared anywhere that I know of and "turing the US into a dictatorship" has the small problem of being illegal and unconstitutional, meaning any lowly district judge from Alabama has the power to overturn that declaration, the Congress can impeach him and the political pressure from everywhere would be barely bearable- not to mention that would be most likely to create a civil war scenario as a huge chunk of armed people in the US are either independent or under States' jurisdiction.

Taking our gunzz? Well, again, it's unconstitutional, and if *insert number of people dead in shootings as of now* hasn't been enough of a reason for the Republicans to accept even some small gun control measures, three more people WON'T change a thing- and indeed haven't.

"Covering up" the fact that the Republican-controlled House has passed CISPA for the second time in a year? Well, that's kind of stupid as a) the House passing a law doesn't mean anything in itself, and b) the Ivulz Democratic Guvmnt does not support it and, in fact, would profit from going all "hey look, the Republicans are passing this law. Young people/internet users mostly from cities, this goes against your interests! Vote for us, we'll overturn it again!" on TV. They gain nothing from "covering it up"! And, in case you didn't hear it, it was the Democratic-held Senate that voted CISPA down less than one year ago and made that law passed by the House a worthless piece of trash paper. And the same Senate controlled by the same people is planning to do the same thing this year with the law the House just passed. And the evul leader of the Guvmint, Obama, has vowed to veto that law since, you know, without his signature, any law is a worthless piece of trash paper.

So we have a extraordinarly intrincate plot, that would require thousands of people from several agencies, the army, the police, the administration, you name it, being "in the know" and not telling anybody; and instead making stupid mistakes as "not feeding the right info to TV's" or "allowing witnesses to see the truth" and even take pictures of it, which sounds incredibly amateurish for such a complex plot.

And we don't know any logical reason why the Government would do that when they already have enough power of their own, and their actions do not follow the sinister "martial law coming any day now!!" theories, which have been said a million times with no martial law having been declared yet.

In the 30's, the German Parliament caught fire and Hitler took the chance to blame a communist, send all communists MP's to jail or just kill them, and illegalize the party, reducing the amount of votes he'd need to pass a law declaring himself dictator, as it finally happened once he managed to get rid of enough opposition MP's. I can understand conspiracy theories arising then as the Government had a very good reason to do so, profited handsomely from the event and was perfectly capable of pulling it off, since it only required one crazy grunt and the Nazi Party had thousands of those at their disposal. But here? I don't see any way in which a conspiracy theory would make sense other than the general mindset of "the Government is always evil and everything bad that happens must be their fault somehow". And I can't follow that logic, sorry.

Also- just saw the update. Who is that doctor anyway? A guy calling himself a doctor on the internet talking about pictures and off-hand descriptions of the event? Sounds something I wouldn't doubt a second to ignore when writing any story at work.

(Also dropping this here: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#51653479 )

Hmm.. You won't see.

I am trying to avoid putting my opinions here as much as I can. (This is the key part of the puzzle Triforce) That's why I say it -could- be the government, and -who knows-. All I want is for you to observe the discrepancies in the videos and images and consider that it might not be as the official version says. In the end you come to your own conclusions anyways. ;)

Don't the images show something else other than the official narrative?

Don't the blood scenes look incredibly fake?

Scarf, just see the pictures.
The older brother is wearing a white backpack, the younger is wearing a small flat black one. Both look nothing like the picture of the blown up bag. Which was quite bigger, and had a white handle.
You could say it was exactly like this one:
hey-bro.jpg
boston-marathon-bomb-backpack.jpg


Triforce, research more. People were arrested and thrown out of their homes at gunpoint. Don't depend on me to spoon feed you research.

Think people, think.


Look at the latest discrepancy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/boston-bombing-suspect-unarmed_n_3150723.html

I haven't gone over this one yet, but it says the younger brother was un-armed when hiding in the boat. It was reported before, that there was a long hour shootout during the time he was found there, and that, that was why he was wounded in his throat and leg.

Well, actually, I heard he was attempting suicide and that was why he shot himself in the throat.

Anyone clarify this?

It feels like what the Ministry of Truth did in 1984.
 
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Alice

(>^.(>0.0)>
3,077
Posts
15
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Is there any audio of gunfights happening? There was with Dorner. I was listening to the police scanner for an hour or two, and the only exchange of fire that happened while I was listening was the FBI throwing in one flashbang.

Honestly, there are so many mixed reports on this still that I wouldn't trust any of it as fact just yet.

We're seeing some say that he was planning to attack Time Square, some say he confessed and that his motive were US wars, some say he refuses to talk altogether. Some say he had and used explosives against the police, some say he was unarmed. Some say he ran over is brother, some say the police shot his brother.

I don't think any of this is the government intentionally lying to us though, it's just the media scrambling to get as much attention and money from the situation as possible, and not caring about accuracy. I mean, a lot of news sources reported that the FBI had suspects in custody before they even had suspects.

Edit: I haven't heard anything about a leg injury yet. Do we know when he was shot in the throat? Looks like most sites are saying it was a suicide attempt, but who in their right mind shoots themselves in the throat and not the head to kill themselves? Also, the police scanners never mentioned any gunfire while he was in the boat, unless it happened hours before they captured him. (Which probably doesn't mean anything, but you'd think they'd report it, since they got super uppity every time they saw him move a muscle. There was also no reports of hearing gunshots after the HRT went in. Although they probably wouldn't in that case. So, I think it seems most likely that he resisted and was shot when they tried to capture him, but who knows.)
 
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TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
8,123
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19
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I was going to come here to post a long explaination, spelling it out plain for you but, know what, nevermind. I give up.

Scarf, I never called any of you stupid, as I know full well that at least some of you are intelligent.
I was telling you to continue thinking, thinking is the difference between being human, and puppet.

For those of you saying that the government would be incapable of keeping secrets, and telling lies:
"No matter how big the lie; repeat it often enough and the masses will regard it as the truth." - John F. Kennedy
Similarly, "It's not a lie, if you believe it". - George Costanza on Seinfeld

Triforce, research more. People were arrested and thrown out of their homes at gunpoint. Don't depend on me to spoon feed you research.
I'm not doubting that there may have been abuses of power. No form of authority is fool-proof. However, my point is that if something did transpire I don't think it was the cops looking for kicks. The home owners may not have been cooperating or were hostile.

If they were thrown out as a result, I'd assume they were let back in afterwards. Unless they were threatening the authorities in which case they may have been held for a period of time.

You can bring up reports of misdeeds and I can bring up reports by people saying there were no problems when the police stopped by to investigate. So, neither position is true in 100% of the cases, but I think the overarching narrative and the intention is not one that lends to conspiracy.

It feels like what the Ministry of Truth did in 1984.
The government can most certainly lie and hide, yes. However, don't combine information properly shared by the authorities with the jumble of "reporting" the media has been doing lately. They follow leads and report things often too early to get ahead of their competition. And in doing so you get a lot of contradicting info.
 
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