Fan Games Hub General discussions about all things fan games. Topics relating to both ROM hacks and custom games are welcome here. Posting links to ROMs is illegal and is not tolerated anywhere on the forum.

Draconius GO
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old May 12th, 2009 (4:57 PM).
Argent Crusader's Avatar
Argent Crusader Argent Crusader is offline
Isn't Falstad dead?
     
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: Paraguay
    Age: 25
    Nature: Lax
    Posts: 300
    Hello people! You might remember me, or you might not. Anyways, Kike-Scott here, brand new name.
    I'm just taking a look at this section of the forums after a long break (I'm not working on anything before you guys ask).
    I came specially to check if there's any advance in DPPt hacking. And as I thought, there's almost nothing significative.
    This is really interesting, because the games are out since September 2007, almost two years, and what? Almost nothing.
    I'm not seeing a DPPt hack. And with hack I mean a complete overhaul of graphics, maps, plot and scripts.
    No one has done tools yet, it's not like I'm asking them, but I remember some users complaining about others that just wanted tools and didn't wanted to help develop them, don't wanted to understand the game deeply.
    I'm just here to post my concern and to see if everyone thinks that the Pokémon Rom-hacking will stick with Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf Green and Emerald forever, or maybe there's a small chance to fully developed generation four hacks appear.
    __________________
    Reply With Quote

    Relevant Advertising!

      #2    
    Old May 12th, 2009 (6:49 PM). Edited May 14th, 2009 by colcolstyles.
    colcolstyles's Avatar
    colcolstyles colcolstyles is offline
    Yours truly
    • Crystal Tier
     
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: The Bay Area
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Lonely
    Posts: 1,590
    I'd be careful talking about the accomplishments (or supposedly the lack thereof) of the people who work hard researching the possibilities of hacking D/P/Pt. I'm not one of them but they might take offense at that.

    Anyways, I personally have no interest in hacking 4th generation games so I'm not so bummed about the lack of progress. Post-R/S/E pokémon really piss me off due to the lack of creativity put into them and I'd much rather prefer hacking a game I played through than something I've never experienced firsthand.
    Still, that's not to say that there hasn't been progress towards hacking 4th gen games. Yes, there isn't much but people have made some discoveries (I'm sure they could go into a lot more detail about them than I could) and there a few tools out there, although I haven't tried them. As long as there is a demand for 4th generation hacking tools, people will continue researching. I say we just let them take their time with it
    __________________

    Brother of Vrai
    Reply With Quote
      #3    
    Old May 12th, 2009 (6:53 PM).
    ~Teh Panda~'s Avatar
    ~Teh Panda~ ~Teh Panda~ is offline
    Sea of Dreams - Redux
    • Silver Tier
     
    Join Date: Aug 2007
    Posts: 906
    Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P
    __________________




    Mystic still in work to let you know...
    Reply With Quote
      #4    
    Old May 12th, 2009 (8:29 PM).
    Darthatron's Avatar
    Darthatron Darthatron is offline
    巨大なトロール。
    • Silver Tier
     
    Join Date: Jan 2006
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Age: 26
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Modest
    Posts: 1,152
    When those new Gold/Silver remakes are released I'll be dedicating most of my free time to hacking them. Until then...

    *Darthatron is AFK*
    __________________
    あなた は しきしゃ です
    わたし は ばか です
    Reply With Quote
      #5    
    Old May 13th, 2009 (3:55 AM).
    Argent Crusader's Avatar
    Argent Crusader Argent Crusader is offline
    Isn't Falstad dead?
       
      Join Date: Sep 2006
      Location: Paraguay
      Age: 25
      Nature: Lax
      Posts: 300
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~ View Post
      Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P
      Oh, good! I didn't see this. Still, no hacks so far.
      But, still no one has managed to heavy edit maps, wich I think are the base to do a better game.
      With this PPRE tool I've seen a good progress, let's see what happens next...

      And I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just want to know the thougths of the community.
      __________________
      Reply With Quote
        #6    
      Old May 13th, 2009 (7:44 AM). Edited May 13th, 2009 by SCV.
      SCV's Avatar
      SCV SCV is offline
      DPP Game Researcher
         
        Join Date: Dec 2007
        Location: Los Angeles
        Gender:
        Nature: Calm
        Posts: 178
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Argent Crusader View Post
        Hello people! You might remember me, or you might not. Anyways, Kike-Scott here, brand new name.
        I'm just taking a look at this section of the forums after a long break (I'm not working on anything before you guys ask).
        I came specially to check if there's any advance in DPPt hacking. And as I thought, there's almost nothing significative.
        This is really interesting, because the games are out since September 2007, almost two years, and what? Almost nothing.
        I'm not seeing a DPPt hack. And with hack I mean a complete overhaul of graphics, maps, plot and scripts.
        No one has done tools yet, it's not like I'm asking them, but I remember some users complaining about others that just wanted tools and didn't wanted to help develop them, don't wanted to understand the game deeply.
        I'm just here to post my concern and to see if everyone thinks that the Pokémon Rom-hacking will stick with Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red, Leaf Green and Emerald forever, or maybe there's a small chance to fully developed generation four hacks appear.
        There is a good chance we'll see fully developed 4th gen edits. But it will take a while to get there, especially since the number of people working towards getting the knowledge required is very small (due to a variety or reasons).

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
        As long as there is a demand for 4th generation hacking tools, people will continue researching. I say we just let them take their time with it
        Well, the thing is there is not much real "demand". But either way, personally, demand does not affect me in developing DPP editing. Having demand influence would be bad, IMO, it must be personal interest that motivates the researcher or programmer.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~ View Post
        Well PPRE is an advancing tool with a very dedicated author in "SCV". He is definitely working very hard on this ;P
        Nice that that is noticed. Just out of curiosity, why is my name in quotes?

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
        When those new Gold/Silver remakes are released I'll be dedicating most of my free time to hacking them. Until then...

        *Darthatron is AFK*
        What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

        Of course, when you work on it it your choice
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Argent Crusader View Post
        Oh, good! I didn't see this. Still, no hacks so far.
        Well part of it is that most people don't want an editor that requires them to understand hex. There was a bug in the first versions of the script editor that was not noticed until about a month ago, which made making bigger scripts impossible.

        Quote:
        But, still no one has managed to heavy edit maps, wich I think are the base to do a better game.
        Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.
        __________________
        Visit PP Wiki's ROM Editing and Research Page

        A new type of DPP Editor: PPRE (PPRE beta 0.05 now out, but there are newer releases)

        Useful programs for DPP Hacking/Research: http://rapidshare.com/files/179900486/ROMHackingTools.zip
        Reply With Quote
          #7    
        Old May 13th, 2009 (8:37 AM).
        Argent Crusader's Avatar
        Argent Crusader Argent Crusader is offline
        Isn't Falstad dead?
           
          Join Date: Sep 2006
          Location: Paraguay
          Age: 25
          Nature: Lax
          Posts: 300
          Quote:
          Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.
          You are right. You can do that.
          I just hate reusing old maps, for me hacking is related very closely with the idea of a new world :D
          __________________
          Reply With Quote
            #8    
          Old May 13th, 2009 (9:34 AM).
          gamefreakfatty's Avatar
          gamefreakfatty gamefreakfatty is offline
          yuo shuld mak an dp map edtior
             
            Join Date: Oct 2007
            Location: In the computer box
            Gender:
            Nature: Naughty
            Posts: 92
            In my opinion you should be able to make a very good hack using the same maps. If you're creative enough you should be able to make up an entirely new storyline and make it work with the old maps while still making it interesting to play. On the other hand, editing maps would be nice, but at this point it is very complicated and few people have even been able to make them show up in 3D display programs properly.
            __________________

            Reply With Quote
              #9    
            Old May 13th, 2009 (9:42 AM).
            gabe_k's Avatar
            gabe_k gabe_k is offline
               
              Join Date: Sep 2007
              Location: California
              Age: 23
              Gender: Male
              Posts: 588
              At this point SCV is really the only good hacker working on D/P/P.

              I'm going to say something that I've said before (I think). If you want to hack a game, then hack it, no one's stopping you. D/P is wide open, not even a checksum. Instead of wondering WHY it's not hacked, go for it and hack it.
              Reply With Quote
                #10    
              Old May 13th, 2009 (8:21 PM).
              ~Teh Panda~'s Avatar
              ~Teh Panda~ ~Teh Panda~ is offline
              Sea of Dreams - Redux
              • Silver Tier
               
              Join Date: Aug 2007
              Posts: 906
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by SCV View Post
              There is a good chance we'll see fully developed 4th gen edits. But it will take a while to get there, especially since the number of people working towards getting the knowledge required is very small (due to a variety or reasons).

              Well, the thing is there is not much real "demand". But either way, personally, demand does not affect me in developing DPP editing. Having demand influence would be bad, IMO, it must be personal interest that motivates the researcher or programmer.

              Nice that that is noticed. Just out of curiosity, why is my name in quotes?

              What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

              Of course, when you work on it it your choice
              Well part of it is that most people don't want an editor that requires them to understand hex. There was a bug in the first versions of the script editor that was not noticed until about a month ago, which made making bigger scripts impossible.

              Well, to me text, scripts and events are the base to a better game. If we did mapping first, that would be completely useless without those three. However, with those three you can create sinnoh based stories (and comming soon, Johto based stories) with the same maps but completely different plot.
              Your special :D, lol...

              But really...
              So he knows your names only SCV. "SCV"

              @e-bag:
              That is true, if you want to hack it and are determined maybe you could find your own method
              __________________




              Mystic still in work to let you know...
              Reply With Quote
                #11    
              Old May 13th, 2009 (10:45 PM).
              Darthatron's Avatar
              Darthatron Darthatron is offline
              巨大なトロール。
              • Silver Tier
               
              Join Date: Jan 2006
              Location: Melbourne, Australia
              Age: 26
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Modest
              Posts: 1,152
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by SCV View Post
              What's the point of that? We expect to be very little changes, the scripting language will most likely be the same, the map system will be the same. So why not work on DPP in a way where as soon as HG/SS comes out you change a few file numbers, and it works for it as well? Also by that time the only thing left to do will probably be model editing and you'd be much better of getting a head start by looking into models in DPP (they'll be the same anyways).

              Of course, when you work on it it your choice
              I do not have any interest in D/P/P, so hacking it is more like a chore. However, once the new games come out I will enjoy hacking them and will want to hack.

              Thanks for caring.
              __________________
              あなた は しきしゃ です
              わたし は ばか です
              Reply With Quote
                #12    
              Old May 14th, 2009 (5:05 AM). Edited May 14th, 2009 by SCV.
              SCV's Avatar
              SCV SCV is offline
              DPP Game Researcher
                 
                Join Date: Dec 2007
                Location: Los Angeles
                Gender:
                Nature: Calm
                Posts: 178
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~ View Post
                So he knows your names only SCV. "SCV"
                Ah, ok.

                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
                I do not have any interest in D/P/P, so hacking it is more like a chore. However, once the new games come out I will enjoy hacking them and will want to hack.

                Thanks for caring.
                I think that this ties in very well into the evolution of Pokemon ROM Editing. Or rather the lack thereof. There is no such thing as hacking DPP vs hacking HG/SS. There is only DS Pokemon game hacking.

                However, this only works if the right approach is taken, which hasn't been done except in very few cases. There is a considerable number of DP Editing tools. However, almost none of them works for platinum and the makers of those programs have not made them compatible with platinum. Why? Because they were not made as DS Pokemon Game Editors. The idea that editing any one of the DS Pokemon Games is the same as any other has not caught on. That is something that has to happen before more people start developing DS hacking (Saying DPPHGSS Hacking will be too long).

                Yes, I will like HG/SS more than DPP but I know what when it comes out all I have to do is edit a few numbers and names and PPRE will work for HG/SS as well.
                __________________
                Visit PP Wiki's ROM Editing and Research Page

                A new type of DPP Editor: PPRE (PPRE beta 0.05 now out, but there are newer releases)

                Useful programs for DPP Hacking/Research: http://rapidshare.com/files/179900486/ROMHackingTools.zip
                Reply With Quote
                  #13    
                Old May 14th, 2009 (3:45 PM).
                Argent Crusader's Avatar
                Argent Crusader Argent Crusader is offline
                Isn't Falstad dead?
                   
                  Join Date: Sep 2006
                  Location: Paraguay
                  Age: 25
                  Nature: Lax
                  Posts: 300
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by E-Bag View Post
                  At this point SCV is really the only good hacker working on D/P/P.

                  I'm going to say something that I've said before (I think). If you want to hack a game, then hack it, no one's stopping you. D/P is wide open, not even a checksum. Instead of wondering WHY it's not hacked, go for it and hack it.
                  I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
                  The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.
                  __________________
                  Reply With Quote
                    #14    
                  Old May 14th, 2009 (3:57 PM).
                  SCV's Avatar
                  SCV SCV is offline
                  DPP Game Researcher
                     
                    Join Date: Dec 2007
                    Location: Los Angeles
                    Gender:
                    Nature: Calm
                    Posts: 178
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Argent Crusader View Post
                    I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
                    The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.
                    The lack of progress is because most people are like you. You don't want to do it. That's how most people feel. Sure once the tools are out, they'll use them. But actually hack? Of course people don't want to do that.
                    __________________
                    Visit PP Wiki's ROM Editing and Research Page

                    A new type of DPP Editor: PPRE (PPRE beta 0.05 now out, but there are newer releases)

                    Useful programs for DPP Hacking/Research: http://rapidshare.com/files/179900486/ROMHackingTools.zip
                    Reply With Quote
                      #15    
                    Old May 14th, 2009 (5:54 PM).
                    Alpha de Splash's Avatar
                    Alpha de Splash Alpha de Splash is offline
                    DPPtHGSS Researcher
                       
                      Join Date: Apr 2009
                      Location: Resort Area
                      Gender: Female
                      Nature: Quiet
                      Posts: 79
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by SCV View Post
                      The lack of progress is because most people are like you. You don't want to do it. That's how most people feel. Sure once the tools are out, they'll use them. But actually hack? Of course people don't want to do that.
                      Of course there are also people like me. Those who know massive amounts of information, but i don't know exactly how i should share all of it. i am not so active in the hacking forums, though i have read through many times and have answers to many questions asked. so for now, i just leave some stuff in my albums.
                      __________________
                      Reply With Quote
                        #16    
                      Old May 14th, 2009 (6:10 PM). Edited May 15th, 2009 by SCV.
                      SCV's Avatar
                      SCV SCV is offline
                      DPP Game Researcher
                         
                        Join Date: Dec 2007
                        Location: Los Angeles
                        Gender:
                        Nature: Calm
                        Posts: 178
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by pokesplash View Post
                        Of course there are also people like me. Those who know massive amounts of information, but i don't know exactly how i should share all of it. i am not so active in the hacking forums, though i have read through many times and have answers to many questions asked. so for now, i just leave some stuff in my albums.
                        Well and easy way to share info is to write a program that uses it and provide the source. For example, when loadingNOW figured out text the way he shared was by making a program to extract text and providing the source.

                        Are you planing to make any programs? If you are feel free to contact me, I can clarify some things about models to make it easier.

                        Also what exactly is "massive"?
                        __________________
                        Visit PP Wiki's ROM Editing and Research Page

                        A new type of DPP Editor: PPRE (PPRE beta 0.05 now out, but there are newer releases)

                        Useful programs for DPP Hacking/Research: http://rapidshare.com/files/179900486/ROMHackingTools.zip
                        Reply With Quote
                          #17    
                        Old May 16th, 2009 (11:41 PM).
                        gabe_k's Avatar
                        gabe_k gabe_k is offline
                           
                          Join Date: Sep 2007
                          Location: California
                          Age: 23
                          Gender: Male
                          Posts: 588
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Argent Crusader View Post
                          I've never said that I wanted to do it. I don't hack anymore. I just don't understand the lack of progress.
                          The topic is about people's thougths on why this is not happening and THE FUTURE OF HACKING as the title says.
                          I was saying you as to the hacking community in general, I'm sorry if it came across as sounding somewhat harsh and pointed.

                          I think there's no question as to why it's not happening. There's a lack of interest, and even when there is interest there is a lack of motivation.

                          I'd like to step back a few months to when I was hacking Diamond and Pearl. I was a completely stuck up idiot. The way I behaved during the time of PokeSpam was totally unacceptable. I was some stupid "noob" who learned how to press CTRL+F in a hex editor and tell when he found something. I don't want the hacking community to become anything close to what I was.

                          The best thing for the future of hacking would be to have some open collection of research (A Wiki maybe) where people who want to contribute can look over the data collected by other hackers and jump right into the middle of the scene.

                          The only thing that can save the hacking community at this point is to be much more open and active. If people are unwilling to do that then the hacking community is most likely doomed to go without fourth generation hacking.
                          Reply With Quote
                            #18    
                          Old May 17th, 2009 (11:02 AM). Edited May 17th, 2009 by SCV.
                          SCV's Avatar
                          SCV SCV is offline
                          DPP Game Researcher
                             
                            Join Date: Dec 2007
                            Location: Los Angeles
                            Gender:
                            Nature: Calm
                            Posts: 178
                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by E-Bag View Post
                            I was saying you as to the hacking community in general, I'm sorry if it came across as sounding somewhat harsh and pointed.

                            I think there's no question as to why it's not happening. There's a lack of interest, and even when there is interest there is a lack of motivation.

                            I'd like to step back a few months to when I was hacking Diamond and Pearl. I was a completely stuck up idiot. The way I behaved during the time of PokeSpam was totally unacceptable. I was some stupid "noob" who learned how to press CTRL+F in a hex editor and tell when he found something. I don't want the hacking community to become anything close to what I was.

                            The best thing for the future of hacking would be to have some open collection of research (A Wiki maybe) where people who want to contribute can look over the data collected by other hackers and jump right into the middle of the scene.

                            The only thing that can save the hacking community at this point is to be much more open and active. If people are unwilling to do that then the hacking community is most likely doomed to go without fourth generation hacking.
                            Well we have in fact set up a wiki and me an pichu2001 have been adding to it for a while now. Not many people know about it though. But for anyone interested I put a link in my sig. There are many things missing and we took a break from making pages and updating because we were working on the script decompiler. But we mostly finished it this week, so pichu2001 is going to add more to the command list. I am now working on the script compiler.

                            I have always believed in open development and that's why PPTE was open source and PPRE is open source. Partly because I am grateful that there were those who provided open source programs that helped me get started in DS ROM Hacking. In particular loadingNOW's PokeDSPic was my first excursion into ROM hacking and not only did it help me get started with ROM hacking but also with learning C#. If it had not been for that, I might not be where I am right now.

                            I think open source is useful if at least for updating program for new releases. If PokeDSPic had not been open source people would probably have been stuck with not being able to edit Platinum sprites.

                            Also there is also the issue of some people not having enough time, due to work, school, etc. Which is the reason at least three people who would be working hard on DS Hacking are not at the moment.
                            __________________
                            Visit PP Wiki's ROM Editing and Research Page

                            A new type of DPP Editor: PPRE (PPRE beta 0.05 now out, but there are newer releases)

                            Useful programs for DPP Hacking/Research: http://rapidshare.com/files/179900486/ROMHackingTools.zip
                            Reply With Quote
                              #19    
                            Old May 26th, 2009 (7:44 PM).
                            Scythe_Ironclaw's Avatar
                            Scythe_Ironclaw Scythe_Ironclaw is offline
                            Shrouded Heart - Zorua & Sylveon Trainer
                               
                              Join Date: Oct 2007
                              Location: Dyvania Provence
                              Age: 27
                              Gender: Male
                              Nature: Quirky
                              Posts: 55
                              You want demand for dpp/ss/hg map hacks!?
                              I DEMAND 4TH GEN MAP HACK NOW PLZ!

                              Main reason is because I want to remake Pokemon Sapphire!
                              POKEMON SAPPHIRE SEA Version 2009-2010 DJ-Games.

                              I use a hex edior and I would be intrested in helping with the hacking of 4th Gen Pokemon!
                              Anything to help speed up the process of a 4th Gen Pokemon Map Editor. You help me, I help you.
                              I know no programing knowledge but if some one would help me then I would be more than happy to contribute.
                              __________________
                              This signature has been disabled.
                              spoiler tags are not allowed in signatures
                              Please review and fix the issues by reading the signature rules.

                              You must edit it to meet the limits set by the rules before you may remove the [sig-reason] code from your signature. Removing this tag will re-enable it.

                              Do not remove the tag until you fix the issues in your signature. You may be infracted for removing this tag if you do not fix the specified issues. Do not use this tag for decoration purposes.
                              Reply With Quote
                                #20    
                              Old May 28th, 2009 (10:26 AM).
                              gabe_k's Avatar
                              gabe_k gabe_k is offline
                                 
                                Join Date: Sep 2007
                                Location: California
                                Age: 23
                                Gender: Male
                                Posts: 588
                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by DJ91990 View Post
                                You want demand for dpp/ss/hg map hacks!?
                                I DEMAND 4TH GEN MAP HACK NOW PLZ!

                                Main reason is because I want to remake Pokemon Sapphire!
                                POKEMON SAPPHIRE SEA Version 2009-2010 DJ-Games.

                                I use a hex edior and I would be intrested in helping with the hacking of 4th Gen Pokemon!
                                Anything to help speed up the process of a 4th Gen Pokemon Map Editor. You help me, I help you.
                                I know no programing knowledge but if some one would help me then I would be more than happy to contribute.
                                If you want a map editor then make one. If you're THAT desperate then learn to research and program.
                                Reply With Quote
                                  #21    
                                Old June 3rd, 2009 (12:41 PM).
                                Pokepal17's Avatar
                                Pokepal17 Pokepal17 is offline
                                More cowbell~
                                • Silver Tier
                                 
                                Join Date: Oct 2008
                                Location: Steeltown
                                Age: 23
                                Gender: Male
                                Nature: Modest
                                Posts: 1,517
                                Like people have been saying, we need to work on DS support on DP supprt. At the end of the day they're the same gam engine. That's why GBA hacking is so good, because tools support GBA not only RSE. The only was we can work is if we do what Coolboyman did and start hacking the DS with a hex editor and learn about what's there.
                                __________________
                                Pokémon Stardrop
                                Reply With Quote
                                Reply

                                Quick Reply

                                Join the conversation!

                                Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                                Create a PokéCommunity Account

                                Sponsored Links
                                Thread Tools

                                Posting Rules
                                You may not post new threads
                                You may not post replies
                                You may not post attachments
                                You may not edit your posts

                                BB code is On
                                Smilies are On
                                [IMG] code is On
                                HTML code is Off

                                Forum Jump


                                All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:59 AM.