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View Poll Results: Do you want Platinum, HG/SS and BW first Map for the first release?
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  #101    
Old November 24th, 2010 (6:44 PM).
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    Wait a minute, Those screens on the first page make it look like you can edit fifth gen maps. Anyway this looks great! Abit difficult to get used to at first, but will be great once released. Best of luck to ya!
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      #102    
    Old November 24th, 2010 (6:49 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pokewalker View Post
    I think I might make a HG/SS hack, called: Pokemon AquaBlue or ThunderYellow. But I first want to make some other hacks. I'm now making Pokemon Koen Version, which is a Diamond hack. Still waiting for the map editor :D
    I'm thinking on Aqua Sapphire version. Obviously, a remake of RS on either Platinum or HG. How can you determine the XY position of an object, and can you create a Z axis to move you up and down from flat ground as opposed to basic flat-ground direction?
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      #103    
    Old November 24th, 2010 (9:27 PM). Edited November 24th, 2010 by Link_971.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Spiky-Eared Pichu View Post
      You can't edit textures for every square separately?

      Yes, that's it...
      My problem is the size of the squares.

      Look the difference between Diamond and Platinum.



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      Originally Posted by Spiky-Eared Pichu View Post
      I don't know how this works but I'm sure you will succeed. With effort you can do ANYTHING, because hacking has no limits... (if you don't trust me check my hack's thread, Pokémon DarkDiamond)

      I hope
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        #104    
      Old November 27th, 2010 (5:07 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Link_971 View Post
      Yes, that's it...
      My problem is the size of the squares.

      Look the difference between Diamond and Platinum.
      Here's the reason why: ALL textures in the 4th generation doesn't just have one texture for one block, it isn't like the 3rd generation. They come in different sizes, but they all have to fit to the end of a block though. The textures can reach out to a varity of blocks. So it's not just one, but can be like 6 of them. Like the flowers for instance and the trees as well.

      The same thing applies for the 5th generation as well, although there can be some frame movements with a texture as well, like small grass in Black/White in the town you start in, it has a frame movement, to make it look as if the grass was being blown by the wind.

      As for movement permissions, they have several options and is totally different from the 3rd generation. In the 3rd generation, the movement permissions were just simple bytes that allocated the movement and all that. As for the 4th generation, things have changed. Movement permissions have their behavior bytes (for the movement of grass, water reflection, ect.), their level byte (for the hight of the sprite) and their passable byte (for not being passable, being passable, or requiring surf. Like in the 3rd generation). But in the 5th generation, the movement permissions have been changed around a bit, like for instance... you cannot be able to encounter a wild Pokémon by being on the water, you'd only encounter a wild Pokémon if you're using surf, so even if you're surfing on a block where there's no water at all... you'd still encounter a wild Pokémon if there's any data for the wild Pokémon in water.

      And there's movement permissions in Black/White that is able to make sprites co-respond in the direction that the movement is faced. So like it changes the up, down, left and right movements facing in a different direction. Because this is something that was implemented in the 5th generation... there is no data of this whatsoever in the 4th generation.
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        #105    
      Old November 27th, 2010 (10:26 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
      The same thing applies for the 5th generation as well, although there can be some frame movements with a texture as well, like small grass in Black/White in the town you start in, it has a frame movement, to make it look as if the grass was being blown by the wind.
      So, they have tile animations now? Cool!
      Quote:
      And there's movement permissions in Black/White that is able to make sprites co-respond in the direction that the movement is faced. So like it changes the up, down, left and right movements facing in a different direction. Because this is something that was implemented in the 5th generation... there is no data of this whatsoever in the 4th generation.
      I don't follow. Can I see an example?
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        #106    
      Old November 27th, 2010 (11:21 PM). Edited November 28th, 2010 by Link_971.
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
        Here's the reason why: ALL textures in the 4th generation doesn't just have one texture for one block, it isn't like the 3rd generation. They come in different sizes, but they all have to fit to the end of a block though. The textures can reach out to a varity of blocks. So it's not just one, but can be like 6 of them. Like the flowers for instance and the trees as well.


        Yes, but i don't find where block data are localized in the narc.
        I don't understand all.
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          #107    
        Old November 28th, 2010 (10:03 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Team Fail View Post
        I don't follow. Can I see an example?
        Like in Hiun City for instance... when you're in the main part of the city, there are movement permissions that co-respond in the direction that is used, like for instance... the up, down, left and right movements get adjusted into facing in a different direction... like as if you're running around a curved part or something (eg. the Sky Arrow Bridge). This was something that was implemented in the 5th generation for movement permissions, so like if you're in a building that has a curved area such as spiral stairs... the movement permissions are set in that way so that you'll move up the stairs while rotating around.
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          #108    
        Old December 7th, 2010 (1:28 AM).
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          Wow...I have been waiting for this day.

          At least SOMEBODY is ACTIVELY WORKING on a 4th Gen map editor. Let alone a 4th AND 5th gen Map editor!

          Dude...if this becomes public, you ALL can bet that for my promotional project to kick off the 4th and 5th gen hacking REVOLUTION...I will port my current GBA hack...Pokemon Limestone to the DS platform! Because I plan to have two regions in Pokemon Limestone, I would need to use Heart Gold and Soul Silver as my base ROMs.

          3D may seem complex at first, but it can be easier to use and faster to create maps when compared to 2D ones. However, when you look at a 3D map like a 2D map...that is where thing become complicated.

          Link_971, you are now working on the FINAL STEP for interesting 4th and 5th gen hacking to be successful!

          There is already an Overworld Sprite editor, Trainer editor, and Script Editor. (Don't beleive me? Check out Project Pokemon!) So this 4th and 5th gen MAP EDITING TOOL is just what the Doctor Ordered! I am now completely excited for this tool to become public! I hope you succeed!

          Link_971, I hope this becomes public soon!
          As always, take your time to make sure that when this becomes public, that it is free of all the nasty bugs and errors that would crash ROMs.
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            #109    
          Old December 7th, 2010 (7:10 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
          Like in Hiun City for instance... when you're in the main part of the city, there are movement permissions that co-respond in the direction that is used, like for instance... the up, down, left and right movements get adjusted into facing in a different direction... like as if you're running around a curved part or something (eg. the Sky Arrow Bridge). This was something that was implemented in the 5th generation for movement permissions, so like if you're in a building that has a curved area such as spiral stairs... the movement permissions are set in that way so that you'll move up the stairs while rotating around.
          Ohhhh... I see. Like, when you use walk through Walls Action Replay codes, for instance. You cannot use it in the main part of Hiun City or Sky Arrow Bridge. I get it totally now.
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            #110    
          Old December 8th, 2010 (6:43 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Team Fail View Post
          Ohhhh... I see. Like, when you use walk through Walls Action Replay codes, for instance. You cannot use it in the main part of Hiun City or Sky Arrow Bridge. I get it totally now.
          Yeah, because the walk through walls Action Replay code normally makes you be able to walk through any movement permission that consists of not passable ect. However, any movement permissions that require surf or are in a type of movement permission that changes the direction you face in are not supported for that Action Replay code. And like I've said once before... unlike in the 4th and earlier generations, you were able to encounter Pokémon on a water-like texture, because it had the data for that sort of thing. In generation 5 however, you will only encounter the wild Pokémon if you're using surf, so even if you're like surfing on the land, you'll still encounter a wild Pokémon if the movement permission is set for that particular block, if there is any wild Pokémon data set for that particular map.

          And so we're trying to conquer the maps of the 5th generation, however... there is a problem... "I lack knowledge in hex editing". x.x
          Yeah... I wish I had knowledge in understanding the hex data of the maps in the 5th generation. Then I could possibly even attempt to create my own hack of Pokémon Black. D:
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            #111    
          Old December 9th, 2010 (10:23 PM).
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            I personally can not wait for this.

            Just a quick question? What do you think about focusing on just being able to make maps just using the original models and graphics the game uses for the first release? Maybe work on model and graphics editing later? I am sure there are a ton of people who can make awesome 4th gen hacks using the regular models and graphics.

            I want to make an entire region using default graphics myself personally.
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              #112    
            Old December 9th, 2010 (10:32 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Magius View Post
            I personally can not wait for this.

            Just a quick question? What do you think about focusing on just being able to make maps just using the original models and graphics the game uses for the first release? Maybe work on model and graphics editing later? I am sure there are a ton of people who can make awesome 4th gen hacks using the regular models and graphics.

            I want to make an entire region using default graphics myself personally.
            Same here. Took the words out my mouth. But, how do map connections and the locations on the world map work?
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              #113    
            Old December 9th, 2010 (11:00 PM). Edited December 9th, 2010 by Platinum Lucario.
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Team Fail View Post
            Same here. Took the words out my mouth. But, how do map connections and the locations on the world map work?
            There are no map connections in the 4th generation, because all the maps are 25x25 blocks, they all are made just in one location of the map. So for instance, if you were creating a town or something in that particular area of the world map, you'd have to put the objects in that particular map, but as for the special maps, they just need to be made, it doesn't require you to have to just put the objects in a certain map layout. But what I do know... is that if you go outside to the right of a special map, it brings you right onto the normal maps that are all based off the location of the town map.

            In the 5th generation however, I've noticed that all the maps are consisted of special maps, so there's no maps that rely the location of the town map, this is pretty much why it's all adjusted so that the player cannot go outside the boundries of the maps. And yeah, there's no map connections in generation 5th either.

            So yeah, no matter even if a map is blank... you can always change it from a no-go map to an actual map with objects on it. But remember, the mystery zone maps in the 4th generation consist of one texture object, as for the 5th generation has null maps that have one object on them, and where ever there is no map data, you cannot be able to enter that area. Except in the 4th generation, the blank maps are still mystery zone maps.
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              #114    
            Old December 9th, 2010 (11:19 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
            There are no map connections in the 4th generation, because all the maps are 25x25 blocks, they all are made just in one location of the map. So for instance, if you were creating a town or something in that particular area of the world map, you'd have to put the objects in that particular map, but as for the special maps, they just need to be made, it doesn't require you to have to just put the objects in a certain map layout. But what I do know... is that if you go outside to the right of a special map, it brings you right onto the normal maps that are all based off the location of the town map.

            In the 5th generation however, I've noticed that all the maps are consisted of special maps, so there's no maps that rely the location of the town map, this is pretty much why it's all adjusted so that the player cannot go outside the boundries of the maps. And yeah, there's no map connections in generation 5th either.

            So yeah, no matter even if a map is blank... you can always change it from a no-go map to an actual map with objects on it. But remember, the mystery zone maps in the 4th generation consist of one texture object, as for the 5th generation has null maps that have one object on them, and where ever there is no map data, you cannot be able to enter that area. Except in the 4th generation, the blank maps are still mystery zone maps.
            Well... That's clear. However, I still don't understand why the game says "Mystery Zone"? As you said the MZ are blanc, but why does it says MZ then?
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              #115    
            Old December 9th, 2010 (11:36 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by pokewalker View Post
            Well... That's clear. However, I still don't understand why the game says "Mystery Zone"? As you said the MZ are blanc, but why does it says MZ then?
            Like I've said before, the maps are consisted of 25x25 blocks, any area that is outside the paths of the world map are considered Mystery Zones or "-----" in HeartGold and SoulSilver. Any area that is outside of the maps that you're supposed to be in is a Mystery Zone. They consist of one texture object, and that one texture object covers the whole map with the same object. And that's how it works. ;D
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              #116    
            Old December 10th, 2010 (12:35 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
            There are no map connections in the 4th generation, because all the maps are 25x25 blocks, they all are made just in one location of the map. So for instance, if you were creating a town or something in that particular area of the world map, you'd have to put the objects in that particular map, but as for the special maps, they just need to be made, it doesn't require you to have to just put the objects in a certain map layout. But what I do know... is that if you go outside to the right of a special map, it brings you right onto the normal maps that are all based off the location of the town map.

            In the 5th generation however, I've noticed that all the maps are consisted of special maps, so there's no maps that rely the location of the town map, this is pretty much why it's all adjusted so that the player cannot go outside the boundries of the maps. And yeah, there's no map connections in generation 5th either.

            So yeah, no matter even if a map is blank... you can always change it from a no-go map to an actual map with objects on it. But remember, the mystery zone maps in the 4th generation consist of one texture object, as for the 5th generation has null maps that have one object on them, and where ever there is no map data, you cannot be able to enter that area. Except in the 4th generation, the blank maps are still mystery zone maps.
            So, It's like placing two blocks side-by-side? It's the map in relation to one another? Ok... I get it...
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              #117    
            Old December 11th, 2010 (2:32 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by PokémonShinySilver View Post
            Like I've said before, the maps are consisted of 25x25 blocks, any area that is outside the paths of the world map are considered Mystery Zones or "-----" in HeartGold and SoulSilver. Any area that is outside of the maps that you're supposed to be in is a Mystery Zone. They consist of one texture object, and that one texture object covers the whole map with the same object. And that's how it works. ;D
            OK... I get it. (I always thought it said Mystery Zone because GF entered that itself in the game XD)
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              #118    
            Old December 11th, 2010 (8:58 AM).
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            OK... I get it. (I always thought it said Mystery Zone because GF entered that itself in the game XD)
            Well, they did. It was the only way to make it work. The name is a placeholder so the game won't crash when Mystery Zone is force loaded.
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              #119    
            Old December 11th, 2010 (10:27 AM).
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            Quote:
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            Well, they did. It was the only way to make it work. The name is a placeholder so the game won't crash when Mystery Zone is force loaded.
            But GF don't want us to cheat don't they? So why would they make the Mystery Zone work?
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              #120    
            Old December 11th, 2010 (11:49 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by pokewalker View Post
              But GF don't want us to cheat don't they? So why would they make the Mystery Zone work?
              They don't like people cheating, but they like cheating, and experimenting themselves. They made it so that it was possible to go in so that they could enter. Not so we could enter. It does bring up the question of why they didn't take it out though...
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                #121    
              Old December 11th, 2010 (2:22 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by sab View Post
                They don't like people cheating, but they like cheating, and experimenting themselves. They made it so that it was possible to go in so that they could enter. Not so we could enter. It does bring up the question of why they didn't take it out though...
                I wouldn't be surprised if it was either one of these two:
                -Removing them would mean they would have to repoint a lot of data possibly.
                OR
                -They were going to use them as map spaces but took them out at the very last minute.
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                  #122    
                Old December 11th, 2010 (2:33 PM).
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                  so will the tool be released any time soon?
                  just asking cuz i wanna start making ds pokemon hacks
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                    #123    
                  Old December 11th, 2010 (2:39 PM).
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                  Quote:
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                  But GF don't want us to cheat don't they? So why would they make the Mystery Zone work?
                  Well, the map is based on a grid. I cannot remember specifically the dimensions but it is all based on a grid-like system. The Mystery Zone is the "filler" between all the maps. It is nonexistent in Black/White because it does not work on a grid system.
                  Quote:
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                  so will the tool be released any time soon?
                  just asking cuz i wanna start making ds pokemon hacks
                  We all are waiting. He said he doesn't know yet when it will be released.
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                    #124    
                  Old December 11th, 2010 (2:52 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by pokewalker View Post
                  But GF don't want us to cheat don't they? So why would they make the Mystery Zone work?
                  You're replying with the assumption that Game Freak knew it was impossible to ever reach the Mystery Zone in normal play.

                  We all know it isn't, because it can be easily accessed through the use of either the Surf Glitch (In original Japanese copies of DP) or via Tweaking. And that's why the Mystery Zone has it's own name and other things specified for it - it's impossible to create a piece of software as large as a game and know there won't be bugs the player can inadvertently trigger so it's best to fill in as much failsfe information as possible to minimize what could happen if the player ends up in there.

                  It's the same reason why we have things like Missingno having a specified name, or the various failsafes built into battling without Pokémon in the later games.
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                  Old December 11th, 2010 (4:50 PM).
                  Shubshub's Avatar
                  Shubshub Shubshub is offline
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                    Hopefully it is going to be released soon
                    I dont care how many bugs it has as long as it can edit maps
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