Off-Topic Hang out with people and talk about whatever. Feel free to suggest a better description for this forum as everyone seems to have an opinion. :D

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old February 19th, 2011 (8:45 AM).
Aquacorde's Avatar
Aquacorde Aquacorde is offline
-- don't you dare look back
     
    Join Date: Jul 2004
    Location: Ankh-Morpork
    Age: 24
    Gender: Female
    Nature: Bold
    Posts: 10,236
    http://www.wisgov.state.wi.us/journal_media_detail.asp?locid=177&prid=5622

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#41655758

    Apparently, other states are watching to see the outcome of this whole fiasco. And other countries, too- Pic from Egypt, found on Facebook:
    Spoiler:


    Rachel Maddow in the second link pretty much explains the bare bones of the situation. How it's really the Republican party attempting to crush Democratic opposition. Fine, we all know that happens, right, but the way this is happening is going to throw the quality of life in the state down the toilet. Forcing public employees to pay that much for their benefits and such, when they are only living a middle-class lifestyle and generally a bit poorer than average as well. For some reason, people don't seem to understand this. People are hating teachers and city workers and other public employees right now, and they don't seem to understand the implications of this mess.

    I know all this and it affects me personally. My father and stepmother are both teachers in Wisconsin. If this bill passes, they would be having to pay so much more that it would throw them into debt for the rest of their lives. They already take care of my stepmom's three kids full-time, and have me and my brother every other weekend. Plus the general cost of living is skyrocketing as they boycott places that supported Walker in the elections- Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Burger King, Gordy's County Market, AT&T, 3M, Wells Fargo, Sprint, Verizon, Jimmy John's, YMCA.
    Our family used to frequent many of these places. Sam's Club provided food in bulk for seven people. McDonald's was cheap on-the-run food. Dad and Stacey use Verizon(and are attempting to drop it), Gordy's and Wal-Mart were other sources of food. 3M makes all kinds of supplies, and my stepbrothers go to the YMCA for after-school care. Trying to replace all of these things is going to be expensive.

    If this abomination actually passes, Dad and Stacey are taking the boys and moving to Minnesota. The three boys are all special needs kids on the Autism spectrum, and with the quality of education about to collapse, they are going to need to get out of there before it negatively affects the kids' development. And Dad and Stacey's jobs are going to be worthless as well, so really it's hard to stay regardless.

    Um... I just kind of wanted to get this out there, so... discuss if you wish. I personally hate what is happening, if you couldn't tell, and I actually cried when I heard about it.
    __________________
    Sorley
    BEYOND

    Mihira Anand
    Journey Optional

    Roleplay Theatre
    Reply With Quote

    Relevant Advertising!

      #2    
    Old February 19th, 2011 (9:14 AM).
    Feign's Avatar
    Feign Feign is offline
    Clain
    • Platinum Tier
     
    Join Date: Dec 2008
    Location: Canada
    Nature: Quirky
    Posts: 4,299
    Man... That's horrible... What you should do is organize a petition and people to stand against crap like this... And educate as many people on it as possible.

    The republicans have always been good at lying... They make it seem like spending money is a bad thing, wherein the only people getting hurt is the middle and lower classes... This is kind of how they were able to get the opposition they did for free health care...
    __________________
    Reply With Quote
      #3    
    Old February 19th, 2011 (10:30 PM).
    Livewire's Avatar
    Livewire Livewire is offline
    • Platinum Tier
     
    Join Date: Jul 2009
    Location: Sunnyshore City
    Gender: Male
    Nature: Adamant
    Posts: 14,265
    What's going on in Wisconsin is insane. Leave it to an out of touch, ignorant and hypocritical Republican governor to completely put people's livelihoods in jeopardy.
    __________________
    Reply With Quote
      #4    
    Old February 19th, 2011 (10:53 PM).
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
    OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
    10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
       
      Join Date: Apr 2010
      Location: Oregon
      Age: 23
      Gender: Male
      Nature: Careful
      Posts: 17,344
      Uhh...people the Democrats lie too you know...both parties are a bunch of liers...actually I'm thinking of turning into an Independent now...
      I also think that Unions aren't needed much anymore...this coming from a future teacher...
      __________________
      # TeamRowlet
      I'm currently working on some novels. If you're interested you can read them here:
      https://www.wattpad.com/user/ImperialSun
      https://www.patreon.com/ImperialSun
      Reply With Quote
        #5    
      Old February 19th, 2011 (11:05 PM).
      Aquacorde's Avatar
      Aquacorde Aquacorde is offline
      -- don't you dare look back
         
        Join Date: Jul 2004
        Location: Ankh-Morpork
        Age: 24
        Gender: Female
        Nature: Bold
        Posts: 10,236
        Mm, okay. Liars the lot of them, fine. But is that what this is about? No. This is about an obvious power grab that could send Wisconsin and possibly other states into complete economic disaster.
        Reply With Quote
          #6    
        Old February 20th, 2011 (6:28 AM).
        TRIFORCE89's Avatar
        TRIFORCE89 TRIFORCE89 is offline
        Guide of Darkness
        • Gold Tier
         
        Join Date: May 2004
        Location: Temple of Light
        Age: 28
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Quiet
        Posts: 8,128
        I'm not very union-supportive in general. I prefer individual reward and personal responsibility. You get rewarded on your merit. If you deserve to be fire, you get fired - you don't get shuffled around or moved somewhere else. Not everyone deserves a payraise or a bonus outside of cost-of-living increases.

        Primarily, I'm against unions in the public sector. When you're working for the public, it's a duty and a sacrifice and it used to be that you'd know you'd be making a little less than the private sector. Now it's reversed and the public union often get better pay and benefits than the average non-unionized private sector worker.

        In the private sector, if the union decides to take too much - then the company goes under and those workers lose there jobs. (Take note Transit Union Local 113 York Region Transit workers who were complaining last week that their employers had the audacity to attempt making a profit). There is a balance, but no such thing exists in the public sector.

        However, unions have done good. For everyone, even non-unionized. Benefits, weekends, minimum wage, etc. Things that are now standard across the board.

        All that said though... despite my general disdained of unions, I support the folks down in Wisconsin. You don't cut pension, period. And cutting health care benefits to half their private sector average? No! I said, the public sector should get a little less than the private sector - not 50% less though! No dice.

        There are other ways of cutting costs. Look at waste, look at bloat, look at inappropriate spending, look at sole source contracts, look at things you sponsor, look at your budgets, reduce redundancy. If you go after workers, you don't retract what you've already negotiated to give (unless they're in agreement).
        __________________
        Reply With Quote
          #7    
        Old February 20th, 2011 (9:29 AM).
        twocows's Avatar
        twocows twocows is offline
        Mostly Benign
        • Gold Tier
         
        Join Date: Mar 2009
        Location: Michigan
        Age: 26
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Lax
        Posts: 4,170
        I think it's a necessary evil. Wisconsin's state debt is of astronomical proportions. There are only so many ways a state can cut its budget, and all of them will make someone mad somewhere. A good understanding of economics is important to address this situation, something most of the people protesting it don't have.

        Ideally, Wisconsin could tax those who can afford it more, but they have enough money that they can just move elsewhere if they choose, and then the state wouldn't be getting any money and they'd be right where they started. The reason firefighter and police budgets weren't cut is because those two groups are absolutely necessary to the normal functioning of society and without them there would be chaos in the streets. We can't afford to have either of those groups go on strike, but the other groups aren't going to cause significant problems by striking for a few months. The only groups left to take money from were the ones selected. It was a matter of damage mitigation and I highly doubt any other governor could have done a better job.

        Additionally, provided these groups do as the governor asked, there won't be any layoffs and they'll still receive their money. What was asked was that the groups buy into their pensions more. It's like buying war bonds in the 1940s; you are paying money to the government that you will get back in the future. That's all that's being asked; the alternative, as he said, is layoffs.
        __________________
        8values
        Political Simulator
        Reply With Quote
          #8    
        Old February 20th, 2011 (11:24 AM).
        OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
        OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
        10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
           
          Join Date: Apr 2010
          Location: Oregon
          Age: 23
          Gender: Male
          Nature: Careful
          Posts: 17,344
          ^I agree thought it's kind of sad that our leaders have inflated the state debts and national debts to the point we have to pick between two "evils"...
          Reply With Quote
            #9    
          Old February 20th, 2011 (11:40 AM).
          RattataL72's Avatar
          RattataL72 RattataL72 is offline
             
            Join Date: Feb 2011
            Gender: Male
            Posts: 23
            wisconsin's budget is actually balanced. The "crisis" is a sham. This is just a union busting bill.
            Reply With Quote
              #10    
            Old February 20th, 2011 (12:50 PM).
            OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
            OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
            10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
               
              Join Date: Apr 2010
              Location: Oregon
              Age: 23
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Careful
              Posts: 17,344
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by RattataL72 View Post
              wisconsin's budget is actually balanced. The "crisis" is a sham. This is just a union busting bill.
              Really? did you have data that shows this :\?
              Reply With Quote
                #11    
              Old February 20th, 2011 (1:07 PM).
              donavannj's Avatar
              donavannj donavannj is offline
              • Moderator
              • Crystal Tier
               
              Join Date: Mar 2005
              Location: 'cause it get cold like Minnesota
              Age: 26
              Gender: Male
              Posts: 20,758
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post

              Really? did you have data that shows this :\?
              The video linked in the first post had mentioned that the state's budget office (non-partisan, by the way) had forecast a budget surplus of $120 million for the upcoming fiscal session. Though it kind of strikes me as a one-session fluke surplus like we had experienced here in Minnesota 5 years back.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by RattataL72 View Post
              wisconsin's budget is actually balanced. The "crisis" is a sham. This is just a union busting bill.
              I have to disagree. That balance strikes me as kind of a fluke surplus like I said above in my reply to Magmaruby and Aquasapphire.
              __________________
              idol trash and game nerd
              Reply With Quote
                #12    
              Old February 20th, 2011 (2:11 PM).
              OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
              OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
              10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
                 
                Join Date: Apr 2010
                Location: Oregon
                Age: 23
                Gender: Male
                Nature: Careful
                Posts: 17,344
                Oh that explains a lot...but what would the state do once that surplus is drained...
                Reply With Quote
                  #13    
                Old February 20th, 2011 (3:53 PM).
                Netto Azure's Avatar
                Netto Azure Netto Azure is offline
                Elliot Craig
                • Gold Tier
                 
                Join Date: May 2008
                Location: Thors Academy, Erebonian Empire
                Age: 24
                Gender: Male
                Nature: Brave
                Posts: 9,550
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by twocows View Post
                I think it's a necessary evil. Wisconsin's state debt is of astronomical proportions. There are only so many ways a state can cut its budget, and all of them will make someone mad somewhere. A good understanding of economics is important to address this situation, something most of the people protesting it don't have.
                Actually we have it MUCH harder here in California. We have a $25 Billion in deficit and our bonds are considered Junk status. Surprisingly I'm actually here in Sacramento, California right now inside the Capitol Building for the YMCA Youth and Government State Constitutional Convention Program, Governor Brown had a Press Conference yesterday saying that the Democratic Controlled legislature has come close to an agreement. His proposal is both a half and half of Tax increases and severe service cuts. :/

                As for Wisconsin I agree with Triforce in this one. You do not RETROACTIVELY do cuts.

                And IMO severely reducing bargaining rights can also lead to abuses. D:
                __________________
                Reply With Quote
                  #14    
                Old February 20th, 2011 (4:00 PM).
                OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
                OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
                10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
                   
                  Join Date: Apr 2010
                  Location: Oregon
                  Age: 23
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Careful
                  Posts: 17,344
                  Yeah the state down south (California) is in desperate need of money...
                  So Netto are the tax increases for the top earners all all across the board (including the poor)?
                  Right reducing bargaining rights would make future debates more sided towards the state than towards the workers...
                  Reply With Quote
                    #15    
                  Old February 20th, 2011 (4:04 PM).
                  Netto Azure's Avatar
                  Netto Azure Netto Azure is offline
                  Elliot Craig
                  • Gold Tier
                   
                  Join Date: May 2008
                  Location: Thors Academy, Erebonian Empire
                  Age: 24
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Brave
                  Posts: 9,550
                  Actually the "Tax increases" are actually just extending the current tax rates that was voted upon 2 years ago to extend to another 5 years. So tax rates stay the same. :O
                  Reply With Quote
                    #16    
                  Old February 20th, 2011 (4:09 PM).
                  OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
                  OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
                  10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
                     
                    Join Date: Apr 2010
                    Location: Oregon
                    Age: 23
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Careful
                    Posts: 17,344
                    Oh that make sense so it's like the opposite of the tax cut extensions...tax increase extensions...
                    The situation in my state is beginning to turn more like that of California a couple of years ago...when it's fiscal house began to go down hill...
                    Reply With Quote
                      #17    
                    Old February 20th, 2011 (4:18 PM).
                    Netto Azure's Avatar
                    Netto Azure Netto Azure is offline
                    Elliot Craig
                    • Gold Tier
                     
                    Join Date: May 2008
                    Location: Thors Academy, Erebonian Empire
                    Age: 24
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Brave
                    Posts: 9,550
                    Governor Brown is calling it a "check-in" with the people because if they vote down the proposals, they are essentially voting for a full scale across the board deep cuts, with schools being closed down across the state and essential services such as Police and Fire being furloughed I believe. :/

                    All the "fat trimming" has already been done. California already did deep cuts over the past decade with our yearly structural deficit. So yeah, unless we go rogue like the Wisconsin legislature and start a Union fight in a state that voted a straight Democrat Party line during the "red tide" of 2010...then yeah, crazy things will happen.

                    We already had student takeovers of Univ. of California campuses last year. That will be only the start. :(
                    Reply With Quote
                      #18    
                    Old February 20th, 2011 (5:25 PM).
                    FreakyLocz14's Avatar
                    FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
                    Conservative Patriot
                    • Platinum Tier
                     
                    Join Date: Jun 2009
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Jolly
                    Posts: 3,491
                    What I find funny is how people really think that money grows on trees. People whine about deficits during elections, then when the elected officials want to cut budgets, liberals get pissed. When they want to raise taxes, conservatives get pissed. How are we every going to find any solution to our debt problem if we can't make some concessions and come to a compromise? Wisconsin citizens elected that Governor and the Republican majority in their Legislature, so they get to call the shots. I think it's cowardly that those politicians left the state and that it's criminal that these teachers are depriving students of their legal right to an education by being absent from their classrooms. I also find it funny how the left is behind these teachers but the Tea Party can't protest without being criticized even when, unlike these teachers, they're not breaking the law in doing so.

                    Here in California, Brown's plan isn't that bad. As a conservative I think it's a reasonable compromise to keep taxes at their current levels so we that the budget cuts save money while not reducing revenue.
                    Reply With Quote
                      #19    
                    Old February 20th, 2011 (5:33 PM).
                    Aquacorde's Avatar
                    Aquacorde Aquacorde is offline
                    -- don't you dare look back
                       
                      Join Date: Jul 2004
                      Location: Ankh-Morpork
                      Age: 24
                      Gender: Female
                      Nature: Bold
                      Posts: 10,236
                      Hmm? Explain to me how teacher using the personal days granted to them to go protest or going on weekends is breaking the law.
                      Reply With Quote
                        #20    
                      Old February 20th, 2011 (5:39 PM).
                      FreakyLocz14's Avatar
                      FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
                      Conservative Patriot
                      • Platinum Tier
                       
                      Join Date: Jun 2009
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Jolly
                      Posts: 3,491
                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by TheSmartOne View Post
                      Hmm? Explain to me how teacher using the personal days granted to them to go protest or going on weekends is breaking the law.
                      A lot of these teachers didn't use vacation time, but rather falsely called in sick.
                      Reply With Quote
                        #21    
                      Old February 20th, 2011 (5:45 PM).
                      Aquacorde's Avatar
                      Aquacorde Aquacorde is offline
                      -- don't you dare look back
                         
                        Join Date: Jul 2004
                        Location: Ankh-Morpork
                        Age: 24
                        Gender: Female
                        Nature: Bold
                        Posts: 10,236
                        And where is your data to back this up? My stepmom and my dad are teachers, and everyone they know who went took personal days or waited until the weekend.
                        Reply With Quote
                          #22    
                        Old February 20th, 2011 (8:21 PM).
                        TRIFORCE89's Avatar
                        TRIFORCE89 TRIFORCE89 is offline
                        Guide of Darkness
                        • Gold Tier
                         
                        Join Date: May 2004
                        Location: Temple of Light
                        Age: 28
                        Gender: Male
                        Nature: Quiet
                        Posts: 8,128
                        No offense, but misusing a personal day probably doesn't bode well for public opinion. Aren't those for illness, injury, or medical emergencies? At least where I live. Plus other "urgent events" related to family members.
                        Reply With Quote
                          #23    
                        Old February 20th, 2011 (8:28 PM).
                        Aquacorde's Avatar
                        Aquacorde Aquacorde is offline
                        -- don't you dare look back
                           
                          Join Date: Jul 2004
                          Location: Ankh-Morpork
                          Age: 24
                          Gender: Female
                          Nature: Bold
                          Posts: 10,236
                          Personal days here are a no-questions-asked, non-paid day off.
                          Reply With Quote
                            #24    
                          Old February 21st, 2011 (12:12 AM).
                          FreakyLocz14's Avatar
                          FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
                          Conservative Patriot
                          • Platinum Tier
                           
                          Join Date: Jun 2009
                          Gender: Male
                          Nature: Jolly
                          Posts: 3,491
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
                          No offense, but misusing a personal day probably doesn't bode well for public opinion. Aren't those for illness, injury, or medical emergencies? At least where I live. Plus other "urgent events" related to family members.
                          Personal days are a certain amount of days one can take off by law without having to have justification. Those are usually different than sick days; which are usually unlimited since no one can plan on being sick for X amount of days (but the law can regulate how much of that is paid time off).
                          Reply With Quote
                            #25    
                          Old February 21st, 2011 (5:56 AM).
                          TRIFORCE89's Avatar
                          TRIFORCE89 TRIFORCE89 is offline
                          Guide of Darkness
                          • Gold Tier
                           
                          Join Date: May 2004
                          Location: Temple of Light
                          Age: 28
                          Gender: Male
                          Nature: Quiet
                          Posts: 8,128
                          I know its different than sick days. For me, Personal Days mean like....your parents died, you go into a car accident, even your babysitter cancelled. "I'm too sick to work today" would be a sick day.

                          Anyway...different topic altogether.
                          Reply With Quote
                          Reply
                          Quick Reply

                          Sponsored Links
                          Thread Tools

                          Posting Rules
                          You may not post new threads
                          You may not post replies
                          You may not post attachments
                          You may not edit your posts

                          BB code is On
                          Smilies are On
                          [IMG] code is On
                          HTML code is Off

                          Forum Jump


                          All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:34 PM.