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  #1    
Old March 11th, 2011 (8:59 PM).
KeitaroU7 KeitaroU7 is offline
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    Hello everyone! Hope your all doing well

    I am currently in the mits of making my first competitive team for Gen 5. However I have reached a bit of a problem. Through trial and error 2 of pokemon I wanted to use (Bisharp and Golurk) didn't play as well as I'd hope so I wanted to replace them in my team. This is what I have so far:

    Zoroark @ Life Orb
    Timid
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Flamethrower
    - Dark Pulse

    (Zoroark will act as a lead in combination with the Gengar on my team. I am trying to figure out what to take out to add Taunt but I am not sure as of yet)

    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Timid
    4 Def/ 252 SpA /252 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast

    (Said Gengar to pair up with Zoroark. Standard Subset to take out bulkier pokemon)

    Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
    Modest
    64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Surf / U-Turn

    (My Special Sweeper. Pairs up with the last pokemon on my team)

    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Calm
    Ability: Water Absorb
    252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
    -Boiling Water
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Ice Beam

    (Paired up with Hydreigon. Acts as a wall and defensive spinblocker)

    Any additions or changes to the pokemon line up or movesets are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance! :D

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      #2    
    Old March 12th, 2011 (7:30 PM).
    Vrai's Avatar
    Vrai Vrai is offline
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    Well, I have a question first: Are you playing doubles? You keep mentioning "combos" and "partners" so I figured I'd get that out of the way first. Doubles is radically different from singles, which most people at PC actually play. :(

    Also, I really can't fill in two whole team slots for you; that's a job you're going to have to do yourself. I will try to mention a couple things to help you out with your team that you have right now, though... it won't really be a complete rate because you don't have a complete team, sorry. :(

    Zoroark is a fairly "meh" lead. Plus, I don't even know what it's trying to "Illusion" or whatever as so it really doesn't help. It doesn't stop SR, doesn't set up SR... it doesn't really have a solid purpose this early in-game. Shadow Ball also offers very very little coverage with Dark Pulse, meaning you can easily cut it out for another move. You could run Nasty Plot perhaps?

    Gengar looks okay. You could also try out a Gengar set that's really good in this metagame... just run Leftovers > Life Orb and Disable > Pain Split. SubDisable Gengar is used against Pokemon that run two coverage moves, one of them being Normal, Ground, or Fighting (which surprisingly is a lot of Pokemon!). You get in on the immune, set up a Sub while they break it, and then Disable the move they used to hit you so they can't do anything to you at all! It's a really fun set to use, imo.

    No qualms with Hydreigon or Jellicent, though I'm slightly confused as to why you mention its spinblocking merits when you don't run SR or Spikes yourself...

    Anyway, GL with building the rest of your team!
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      #3    
    Old March 12th, 2011 (10:07 PM).
    PlatinumDude's Avatar
    PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
    Nyeh?
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    You could squeeze in Ferrothorn in the middle somewhere because it has good synergy with Jellicent:
    -Stealth Rock/Spikes
    -Leech Seed/Spikes
    -Power Whip
    -Gyro Ball
    Nature: Relaxed/Sassy
    EVs: 252 HP/80 Atk/176 Def
    Item: Leftovers

    Like the above poster said, Shadow Ball has redundant coverage with Dark Pulse on Zoroark. Taunt or Nasty Plot can go in its place.

    I don't know who the last member on your team should be, though.
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      #4    
    Old March 12th, 2011 (10:33 PM).
    KeitaroU7 KeitaroU7 is offline
    The Ice Monarch
       
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
      Well, I have a question first: Are you playing doubles? You keep mentioning "combos" and "partners" so I figured I'd get that out of the way first. Doubles is radically different from singles, which most people at PC actually play. :(

      Also, I really can't fill in two whole team slots for you; that's a job you're going to have to do yourself. I will try to mention a couple things to help you out with your team that you have right now, though... it won't really be a complete rate because you don't have a complete team, sorry. :(

      Zoroark is a fairly "meh" lead. Plus, I don't even know what it's trying to "Illusion" or whatever as so it really doesn't help. It doesn't stop SR, doesn't set up SR... it doesn't really have a solid purpose this early in-game. Shadow Ball also offers very very little coverage with Dark Pulse, meaning you can easily cut it out for another move. You could run Nasty Plot perhaps?

      Gengar looks okay. You could also try out a Gengar set that's really good in this metagame... just run Leftovers > Life Orb and Disable > Pain Split. SubDisable Gengar is used against Pokemon that run two coverage moves, one of them being Normal, Ground, or Fighting (which surprisingly is a lot of Pokemon!). You get in on the immune, set up a Sub while they break it, and then Disable the move they used to hit you so they can't do anything to you at all! It's a really fun set to use, imo.

      No qualms with Hydreigon or Jellicent, though I'm slightly confused as to why you mention its spinblocking merits when you don't run SR or Spikes yourself...

      Anyway, GL with building the rest of your team!
      When I meant matched up I was talking about the 2 covering each others weaknesses. I'm sry about the confusion.

      For Zoroark I was just trying to get some opinions to see if it would be possible to pull off but after taking some time to look things over, I was wrong. I can still do what I wanna do with the Nasty Plot set, but i gotta find something that Zoroark can use to illusion.

      I didn't thing about using that kind of Gengar and that would really help check some common moves. I'll definantly give it a try :D

      I was thinking of adding a lead Metagross along with Tyranitar. I'd like an opinion on putting in Reuniclus as well.
        #5    
      Old March 12th, 2011 (11:01 PM).
      Vrai's Avatar
      Vrai Vrai is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by KeitaroU7 View Post
      When I meant matched up I was talking about the 2 covering each others weaknesses. I'm sry about the confusion.

      For Zoroark I was just trying to get some opinions to see if it would be possible to pull off but after taking some time to look things over, I was wrong. I can still do what I wanna do with the Nasty Plot set, but i gotta find something that Zoroark can use to illusion.

      I didn't thing about using that kind of Gengar and that would really help check some common moves. I'll definantly give it a try :D

      I was thinking of adding a lead Metagross along with Tyranitar. I'd like an opinion on putting in Reuniclus as well.
      Reuniclus is actually a fantastic partner for Zoroark's Illusion. It lures in Pokemon like Tyranitar and Scizor and can OHKO them with Flamethrower and Focus Blast, respectively. Then, Reuniclus can sweep later on now that its checks are eliminated. You still have to be wary of entry hazards and Sandstorm damage and stuff - any wary opponent will realize as soon as fake Reuniclus is out and taking entry hazard damage that it's really Zoroark. :(

      Tyranitar is actually pretty good in the lead position this Gen, albeit really really common. Lead Metagross isn't so much, but I really have no idea how well it'll work. The Earthquake weak seems really bad for it, though...

      If you're going to use Tyranitar, you might as well go for its mixed lead set here:

      name: MixTar
      move 1: Stealth Rock
      move 2: Crunch
      move 3: Fire Blast
      move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
      item: Leftovers
      nature: Sassy
      evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD

      (c/p from smogon sorry I'm lazy x__x). It is the most common set, though, so people will be prepared for it... Also if you're going to use Tyranitar you might want to try one of the new Sand-ability sweepers in Landorus or Excadrill. I don't want to change this team entirely around for you but you can try each suggestion one at a time if you want, haha. ;)
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        #6    
      Old March 12th, 2011 (11:09 PM).
      KeitaroU7 KeitaroU7 is offline
      The Ice Monarch
         
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
        Reuniclus is actually a fantastic partner for Zoroark's Illusion. It lures in Pokemon like Tyranitar and Scizor and can OHKO them with Flamethrower and Focus Blast, respectively. Then, Reuniclus can sweep later on now that its checks are eliminated. You still have to be wary of entry hazards and Sandstorm damage and stuff - any wary opponent will realize as soon as fake Reuniclus is out and taking entry hazard damage that it's really Zoroark. :(

        Tyranitar is actually pretty good in the lead position this Gen, albeit really really common. Lead Metagross isn't so much, but I really have no idea how well it'll work. The Earthquake weak seems really bad for it, though...

        If you're going to use Tyranitar, you might as well go for its mixed lead set here:

        name: MixTar
        move 1: Stealth Rock
        move 2: Crunch
        move 3: Fire Blast
        move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
        item: Leftovers
        nature: Sassy
        evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD

        (c/p from smogon sorry I'm lazy x__x). It is the most common set, though, so people will be prepared for it... Also if you're going to use Tyranitar you might want to try one of the new Sand-ability sweepers in Landorus or Excadrill. I don't want to change this team entirely around for you but you can try each suggestion one at a time if you want, haha. ;)
        Well, my problem with that is how does Zoroark pull of a nasty plot while pretending to be Reuniclus? I would think it would depend on when you did it but still. I feel like if u did that, it would have to attack before pulling off a nasty plot and by then, the next round your opponent can counter it. Just my thoughts.

        I definantly thought Tyranitar was a good choice on the team as it definantly needed physical strength. That's why I also wanted to add in Metagross, but I never thought of adding in Excadrill into the mix :) (was trying to make this team ghost/dark at first)

        These are definantly things to look into. Thank you. Tho testing this will be a pain. I spent 3 hours EV training Zoroark and my dragon and Idk if I wanna do any more for extras if I can help it @_____@
          #7    
        Old March 12th, 2011 (11:17 PM).
        Vrai's Avatar
        Vrai Vrai is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by KeitaroU7 View Post
        Well, my problem with that is how does Zoroark pull of a nasty plot while pretending to be Reuniclus? I would think it would depend on when you did it but still. I feel like if u did that, it would have to attack before pulling off a nasty plot and by then, the next round your opponent can counter it. Just my thoughts.

        I definantly thought Tyranitar was a good choice on the team as it definantly needed physical strength. That's why I also wanted to add in Metagross, but I never thought of adding in Excadrill into the mix :) (was trying to make this team ghost/dark at first)

        These are definantly things to look into. Thank you. Tho testing this will be a pain. I spent 3 hours EV training Zoroark and my dragon and Idk if I wanna do any more for extras if I can help it @_____@
        Well, when I'm using Zoroark to try to eliminate a certain Pokemon's counters (I did this with Scizor too to eliminate silly things like Magnezone and Jellicent) I run Specs Zoroark. While it does inevitably require more prediction, you can sneak it in later and KO their "counter" when they least expect it.

        Oh, jeez. I myself don't do Wi-Fi, but you certainly can test teams and stuff by putting them on Pokemon Online and seeing what works where. I know that Wi-Fi isn't exactly the same metagame as PO (as you can't rapidly change Pokemon like you can on PO) but I think it's similar enough to work for testing purposes. You can find PO here if you want to try that to test, haha. Hopefully you won't have to do any more extraneous EV training. ;)
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          #8    
        Old March 12th, 2011 (11:25 PM). Edited March 13th, 2011 by KeitaroU7.
        KeitaroU7 KeitaroU7 is offline
        The Ice Monarch
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
          Well, when I'm using Zoroark to try to eliminate a certain Pokemon's counters (I did this with Scizor too to eliminate silly things like Magnezone and Jellicent) I run Specs Zoroark. While it does inevitably require more prediction, you can sneak it in later and KO their "counter" when they least expect it.

          Oh, jeez. I myself don't do Wi-Fi, but you certainly can test teams and stuff by putting them on Pokemon Online and seeing what works where. I know that Wi-Fi isn't exactly the same metagame as PO (as you can't rapidly change Pokemon like you can on PO) but I think it's similar enough to work for testing purposes. You can find PO here if you want to try that to test, haha. Hopefully you won't have to do any more extraneous EV training. ;)
          Ahhh I see. That makes sense. Well sadly I cannot use pokemon online as I have a mac and I don't know how to convert it to run windows and I'm not gonna try @_@ If I had the Power bands and stuff it would make this WAAAAAY easier. I have pokerus but even that takes too long >_<

          Speaking of what u suggested, Reuniclus works better on this team then Excadril. With everyone else that leaves 4 weaknesses to fighting which is waaay to risky @_@ I still feel the team needs at least another physical attacker of sorts cause there's like 4 1/2 including Tyranitar.

          Edit:
          Okay, here's my team now:

          name: MixTar
          move 1: Stealth Rock
          move 2: Crunch
          move 3: Fire Blast
          move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
          item: Leftovers
          nature: Sassy
          evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD

          (Acts as the lead naturally)

          Zoroark @ Life Orb/Choice Specs/Scarf
          Timid
          4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
          - Nasty Plot
          - Focus Blast
          - Flamethrower
          - Dark Pulse

          (Special sweeper that turns into Reuniclus)


          Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
          Modest
          64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
          - Draco Meteor
          - Dragon Pulse
          - Flamethrower
          - Surf / U-Turn

          (Another Special Sweeper that matches up with Jellicent)

          Jellicent @ Leftovers
          Calm
          Ability: Water Absorb
          252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
          -Boiling Water
          - Recover
          - Will-O-Wisp
          - Ice Beam/Taunt

          (Wall and Spinblocker. Deciding on whether or not to use taunt but ice beam is viable for Dragons which this team has resistance against)

          Landorus
          - Earthquake
          - Rock Slide
          - U-Turn
          - Hammer Arm
          item: Choice Scarf
          evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
          nature: Jolly

          (Late Game Physical Sweeper/revenge killer which this team was greatly in need of)

          Reuniclus
          - Calm Mind
          - Recover
          - Psychic / Psycho Shock
          - Focus Blast
          item: Leftovers
          ability: Magic Guard
          nature: Modest
          evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SpD
          ivs: 0 Speed

          (Teams up with Zoroark as he checks his weaknesses)
           
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