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  #26    
Old October 23rd, 2011 (10:04 PM). Edited October 23rd, 2011 by -ty-.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow View Post
    Freedom of speech at it's finest, where someone taking an unpopular stance on an issue like homosexuality is immediately told to stop practicing their freedom of speech (This thread) and sometimes flat out punished for it. (Hate crimes, anyone?)

    The ammount of intolerance I see from the group supposedly advocating the equality of sexual orientations is the very reason I refuse to support them. Among other... smaller reasons. Point being, I'd rather be looked down on for refusing to take part in this /war/ altogether than to be associated with a group I either just don't agree with (anti-homosexuality groups) or a group known for having a tendency to put it's goals above things like our freedom and civility.
    How is she being punished? I don't see how this is a hate crime.

    If I say that a black people are gross, and I hope they do not touch me, it is not a hate crime if someone tells me that I am a racist. Although people would call me a racist, it doesn't mean that I would be a victim of a hate crime, because, by law, that hateful speech is protected. If people do not like me because of it, then they have that right. They have the right to not befriend me and criticize my beliefs (it's a two-way street as far a free speech). See how a racist causes their own problems, not the other way around? The same applies to hatred of gay people.

    Also, civility and freedom is exactly what GLBT people seek when they advocate for gay marriage/equal rights. Essentially, it's like saying Martin Luther King Jr. was insensitive to racists when he demanded equal rights to black people.

    I know it is a common analogy made between black rights and gay rights, but it is quite truthful.
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      #27    
    Old October 23rd, 2011 (10:14 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
    How is she being punished? I don't see how this is a hate crime.

    If I say that a black people are gross, and I hope they do not touch me, it is not a hate crime if someone tells me that I am a racist. Although people would call me a racist, it doesn't mean that I would be a victim of a hate crime, because, by law, that hateful speech is protected. If people do not like me because of it, then they have that right. They have the right to not befriend me and criticize my beliefs (it's a two-way street as far a free speech). See how a racist causes their own problems, not the other way around? The same applies to hatred of gay people.

    Also, civility and freedom is exactly what GLBT people seek when they advocate for gay marriage/equal rights. Essentially, it's like saying Martin Luther King Jr. was insensitive to racists when he demanded equal rights to black people.

    I know it is a common analogy made between black rights and gay rights, but it is quite truthful.
    It's also a highly controversial, and to many African-American, offensive analogy.

    I agree that there is no hate crime being committed by either party, though I do not believe in hate crimes anyway.
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      #28    
    Old October 23rd, 2011 (10:21 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow View Post
    Freedom of speech at it's finest, where someone taking an unpopular stance on an issue like homosexuality is immediately told to stop practicing their freedom of speech
    My guess would be because she's spewing hateful, ignorant bullcrap. This "freedom of speech" argument is so over-used, it's ridiculous. I'm sorry, you can't say whatever you please and not expect repercussions. In a court room or in the eyes of the government you have freedom of speech, but outside you really don't. Try telling off your boss next time you work and see how it goes for you.
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      #29    
    Old October 23rd, 2011 (11:02 PM).
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    My guess would be because she's spewing hateful, ignorant bullcrap. This "freedom of speech" argument is so over-used, it's ridiculous. I'm sorry, you can't say whatever you please and not expect repercussions. In a court room or in the eyes of the government you have freedom of speech, but outside you really don't. Try telling off your boss next time you work and see how it goes for you.
    *gasp* I agree with you.

    Freedom of speech applies when the government is trying to restrict your speech, no matter how hateful or ignorant it is. It does not apply to private entities. For example, I can tell someone to leave my home for making racist, sexist, or homophobic remarks and they have no cause of action to sue me for violating their freedom of speech.

    Another example is moderation here at PC. Someone can't sue PC for violating their freedom of speech, unless PC is getting government funding or something.
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      #30    
    Old October 24th, 2011 (11:10 AM).
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    If she doesn't like certain group of people, then she should just shut the **** up about it is all I'll say.
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    Old October 24th, 2011 (12:21 PM).
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    So you're admitting she has these rights under the law, but are trying to justify the fact you don't respect them anyway. Yeah... that actually doesn't work. You can disagree as hard as you want. You can even choose to mock her argument. But when you choose instead to blatantly tell her to stop exercising her freedom of speech that is not justifiable.

    I for one wouldn't care /how/ absurd or obnoxious her argument was. I'd still defend her right to make it. I resent that having an opinion, a voice for your beliefs, on a controversial issue opens you up to being thought of as not deserving the same rights as everyone else.
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      #32    
    Old October 24th, 2011 (2:32 PM).
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    If she wants to use her rights to speak, fine. But that doesn't give her the right to spew nothing but hate speech at a group of people.
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      #33    
    Old October 24th, 2011 (3:12 PM).
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    Quote:
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    If she wants to use her rights to speak, fine. But that doesn't give her the right to spew nothing but hate speech at a group of people.
    That's sort of exactly what it does. She'll face repercussions (maybe), but that is definitely what the 1st if for. It being the ability to say as you please, even if it is wrong.
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