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  #1    
Old December 26th, 2011 (2:32 PM).
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    Everyone can agree that OU is the most popular tier in the metagame, and with that, UU and maybe Ubers are second-most popular. NU is kind of down the latter, but in all honesty, none of these tiers are as closer to the bottom of the barrel as Little Cup.

    To start off, I actually don't think LC should be treated as just a side-tier. Little Cup really is a metagame of its own. It has its own stat calculation, set of viable vs. ****** pokemon, and standards as far as viable items, clauses, and moves. In spite of this, it doesn't seem that even smogon gives a crap. (those tiers just make me groan).

    To the point, this thread is to discuss people's opinions about Little Cup, what they like and what they think is wrong with it. The latter is probably important because I would love to know why this tier is unpopular? I personally love playing it from time to time, and it offers a fresh experience from the other tiers.


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      #2    
    Old December 26th, 2011 (4:15 PM).
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    It's in no official tournaments, making it unreasonable for most to care to play it. And like you said, it's an entirely new concept. Most people don't want to have to relearn their ways of thinking, let alone learn a new metagame.

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    Old December 26th, 2011 (5:29 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
      It's in no official tournaments, making it unreasonable for most to care to play it. And like you said, it's an entirely new concept. Most people don't want to have to relearn their ways of thinking, let alone learn a new metagame.

      The thing is, however, if you took the time to learn about the essentials of competitive battling to begin with, how is learning a few new tweaks different? While the stat calculations in Little Cup are very different due to the fact that you are playing at a lower level, it's not necessarily harder to learn. Pokemon Online makes it even easier, just use the scroll bar to see what stats that Poke has at a certain amount of investment.

        #4    
      Old December 26th, 2011 (7:16 PM).
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      I can honestly say that one of the biggest reasons I feel that no one plays Little Cup is because it's so hard to train for it. Granted most people would play using Pokemon Online or whatever, but if you wanted to EV train a Pokemon for Little Cup, imagine how hard that would be. Considering you have to get specific movesets, and a specific EV chart, and all without going above level 5. You gotta get certain IVs since I believe HP being 19 is like, god or something in that world (Life Orb rounds down iirc), so it's pretty specific for everything like that.

        #5    
      Old December 26th, 2011 (8:16 PM).
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        I guess LC is too much of a hard tier to play with. I mean, look at OU with its Ferrothorn and Infernape and all that Pokemon. Players sometimes are enticed to play with those kind of Pokemon rather than their pre-evos. (except for Eviolite Chansey, who is better played with than Blissey). And EV training without going up the level barrier is too hard. You will be running around killing Bidoofs and such.

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          #6    
        Old December 26th, 2011 (8:27 PM).
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        I refuse to play it because they put LC Pokemon on the main page for BW which makes using the site for OU a pain >_<

        Actually, I think that it's just what others have said: they're at level 5, and it's a much different dynamic than learning how to play the same game but with different Pokemon.

        Also, it just kind of *feels* like a gimmick. Having level 5, unevolved Pokemon is kind of like fighting only with your left ring finger. It just seems like a very odd limit that serves no real purpose other than to have a new tier. I know this doesn't actually affect the fun or playability of the games in LC, but I guess what comes to mind is "why not play NU?" Arbitrarily limiting Pokemon doesn't appeal to me.

        Lastly, I think the fact that its player base is pretty low already contributes to the fact that it's pretty much on the backburner. Naturally, you want to play where others are playing because you'll have more--and probably better--competition. In other words, it's the same reason that good athletes in the U.S. play basketball and football, not *insert obscure sport*...so yeah.

          #7    
        Old December 27th, 2011 (9:21 AM).
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        LC is entirely different than every other tier. It plays different and the EVs are spread out differently. You can't use the same "oh 180 evs in defense, and 60 in attack and the rest in speed" forumula like you can in OU et al. You have to distribute EVs based on the number that the base stat ends in, which is rather complicated at the beginning if you aren't sure what you're doing.

        LC is also much more fast paced and certain items are less useful which can drive some players away. Leftovers is an item you will almost never ever see in LC same with items like Choice Band or Specs. Speed is the most important stat and offensive power comes second. Oran Berries and Life Orbs and Choice Scarves are the most common items seen with probably Evolite Stones (or whatever it's called) fourth.

        As Anti mentioned as well, the playerbase is minuscule at best. Only about a handful of good players really take LC seriously (it was all I played when B/W first came out on PO) and the rest of the people play it for fun and don't really give a damn about it. Little Cup also has a reputation as being a tier for people who can't play OU, so being good at LC almost comes with a negative connotation. It's got the potential to grow into a big metagame, but there are a lot of driving factors that keep many players at bay.

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        Old December 27th, 2011 (11:53 AM).
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          I don't get it. Whats all these 2 letters stand for? I never checked:D

            #9    
          Old December 27th, 2011 (1:34 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by kutnkill View Post
            I don't get it. Whats all these 2 letters stand for? I never checked:D
            LC = Little Cup

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by .Gamer View Post
            LC is entirely different than every other tier. It plays different and the EVs are spread out differently. You can't use the same "oh 180 evs in defense, and 60 in attack and the rest in speed" forumula like you can in OU et al. You have to distribute EVs based on the number that the base stat ends in, which is rather complicated at the beginning if you aren't sure what you're doing.

            LC is also much more fast paced and certain items are less useful which can drive some players away. Leftovers is an item you will almost never ever see in LC same with items like Choice Band or Specs. Speed is the most important stat and offensive power comes second. Oran Berries and Life Orbs and Choice Scarves are the most common items seen with probably Evolite Stones (or whatever it's called) fourth.

            As Anti mentioned as well, the playerbase is minuscule at best. Only about a handful of good players really take LC seriously (it was all I played when B/W first came out on PO) and the rest of the people play it for fun and don't really give a damn about it. Little Cup also has a reputation as being a tier for people who can't play OU, so being good at LC almost comes with a negative connotation. It's got the potential to grow into a big metagame, but there are a lot of driving factors that keep many players at bay.

            Pretty much true, though I can't figure out why these factors would drive anyone away. During the first time I attempted to play LC, I was confused too, but during the time I first started playing Pokemon Competitively in general, I was a bit confused of the mechanics as well. I don't think playing LC is harder, it's just different, which is why I can't really understand why it's underplayed.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Anti View Post
            Actually, I think that it's just what others have said: they're at level 5, and it's a much different dynamic than learning how to play the same game but with different Pokemon.

            Also, it just kind of *feels* like a gimmick. Having level 5, unevolved Pokemon is kind of like fighting only with your left ring finger. It just seems like a very odd limit that serves no real purpose other than to have a new tier. I know this doesn't actually affect the fun or playability of the games in LC, but I guess what comes to mind is "why not play NU?" Arbitrarily limiting Pokemon doesn't appeal to me.

            Lastly, I think the fact that its player base is pretty low already contributes to the fact that it's pretty much on the backburner. Naturally, you want to play where others are playing because you'll have more--and probably better--competition. In other words, it's the same reason that good athletes in the U.S. play basketball and football, not *insert obscure sport*...so yeah.

            I think the level 5 limit is due to tradition. Little Cup truly began in Gen 2, with Pokemon Stadium 2. Level 5 was the starting level for all newly hatched base stage Pokemon prior to Gen 4, so the metagame we have today is largely based on that, even utilizing the same rules as with that side-game (banning of sonic boom and dragon rage, etc.). I guess keeping the level limit to 100 as with standard tiers isn't a bad idea, but I personally like the challenge of working with low HP, and it creates a faster-paced game.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by miltankRancher View Post
            I guess LC is too much of a hard tier to play with. I mean, look at OU with its Ferrothorn and Infernape and all that Pokemon. Players sometimes are enticed to play with those kind of Pokemon rather than their pre-evos. (except for Eviolite Chansey, who is better played with than Blissey). And EV training without going up the level barrier is too hard. You will be running around killing Bidoofs and such.
            I can see how the level limit makes things harder. You pretty much either need to hack or to use a ton of exp share to get your babies below the limit but still trained. I think it would be easy if there was a Gen 2 version of LC, since it would mostly rely on IVs, breeding moves and TMs, but I don't think GSC Little Cup exists yet (I would LOVE to play that).

            Another thing, it's a common misconception to think that a top tier Pokemon's prevo is just as good as itself. It's kind of the reason why I laugh at starter teams, because its kind of a sign of noobness. ;P

            I'd say that some of the top threats of today's LC are:
            -Abra
            -Gastly
            -Magnemite
            -Diglett
            -Staryu
            -Chinchou
            -Stunky
            -Bronzor
            -Dratini

              #10    
            Old January 7th, 2012 (3:56 PM).
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              I was thinking about making a tournament like that because to make a different tournament. I think maybe, just maybe, lv20 may be a better level limit for this kind of competition because you can at least prepare better for the tournaments (aside from having better moves). However, just to do that, someone would have to make new tiers. *starts learning about metagame to make a lv20 version of it*

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                #11    
              Old January 7th, 2012 (4:20 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by shininglatios217 View Post
              I was thinking about making a tournament like that because to make a different tournament. I think maybe, just maybe, lv20 may be a better level limit for this kind of competition because you can at least prepare better for the tournaments (aside from having better moves). However, just to do that, someone would have to make new tiers. *starts learning about metagame to make a lv20 version of it*

              Little Cup is hardly ever, if at all, played on WiFi. It's extensively hard to prepare for because you have so little room for error, and frankly it's much easier to use simulators. Nearly all LC players will be playing on PO. There is no reason to bump up a level limit.

              There is also Middle Cup, which is significantly less known but involves Pokemon with both a lower and higher evolution at level 50.

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                #12    
              Old January 7th, 2012 (4:24 PM).
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                I'll agree LC is kinda underrated but i find it fairy boring mainly cause my friend is obsessed with it the fact that she MAKES me battle her in LC like 15 times in a row is what makes me find it boring anyway LC is fun in burst

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                  #13    
                Old January 7th, 2012 (8:28 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Ratty524 View Post
                Pretty much true, though I can't figure out why these factors would drive anyone away. During the first time I attempted to play LC, I was confused too, but during the time I first started playing Pokemon Competitively in general, I was a bit confused of the mechanics as well. I don't think playing LC is harder, it's just different, which is why I can't really understand why it's underplayed.

                It's pretty much a cycle really. People don't like it because it's so different and don't play it. People who do like it don't play it because not a lot of people play it. Repeat.

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                  #14    
                Old January 11th, 2012 (9:57 AM).
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                Quote:
                Everyone can agree that OU is the most popular tier in the metagame
                Maybe off-topic but I think you're going at it the wrong way. The OU Pokémon are OU because they are popular, not the other way around. It's not like they are OU, therefore they are popular. They are OU because they are popular. NU is NU because those Pokémon are, well, not used often. But anyways LC seems really hard, you can't really make any mistakes (at least that's what it seems like to me, I've never played LC before) so yeah.

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                  #15    
                Old January 16th, 2012 (7:51 PM).
                SebbieSawrr SebbieSawrr is offline
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                  Im not a huge fan of LC simply because it seems very... pointless. The tiers are sorted by power levels,Ability,Move Pool etc and all those things come into consideration when making tiers. LC is like pretty much just a place to put baby pokemon but I would rather use LC pokemon in NU as opposed to playing LC.

                    #16    
                  Old January 17th, 2012 (3:18 AM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by SebbieSawrr View Post
                  Im not a huge fan of LC simply because it seems very... pointless. The tiers are sorted by power levels,Ability,Move Pool etc and all those things come into consideration when making tiers. LC is like pretty much just a place to put baby pokemon but I would rather use LC pokemon in NU as opposed to playing LC.

                  No, tiers are organized by usage and usage alone. Ability, movepool, and all of those other things come into consideration when people decide whether to use it or not, but they have little impact on the tiering itself. You also must remember that LC is a separate entity from the other tiers altogether; it's not like LC follows NU, or that it's just a place for "baby" Pokemon. It has its own unique ruleset and is a tiering system all of its own. That's why Pokemon like Scyther and Murkrow can be banned from LC but not from lower tiers in NU.

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