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  #1    
Old May 26th, 2012 (1:07 PM).
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VoxynZ VoxynZ is offline
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    This is an NU tier team, designed around Toxic stalling. The primary issue I’m having is with the movesets, as Toxic and Roar are almost too redundant. I also would like to hear the overall weaknesses the team has, such as certain Pokemon that could set up or power straight through it. Thanks!

    Lairon @ Eviolite
    Nature- Impish
    Ability- Rock Head
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Stealth Rock
    Head Smash
    Roar
    Toxic / Earthquake

    While Earthquake is a strong move choice, Toxic is better suited to this team. However, depending on how many other team members end up with Toxic, it is easily changed.

    Altaria @ Leftovers
    Nature- Calm
    Ability- Natural Cure
    252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
    Roost
    Dragon Pulse
    Perish Song
    Toxic

    Perish Song is used over Roar to guard against last man standing setup sweepers.

    Flareon @ Leftovers
    Nature- Calm
    Ability- Flash Fire
    252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
    Wish
    Protect
    Flamethrower
    Roar / Toxic

    Roar and Toxic are redundant with other team members; the question is how redundant should each be on this team.

    Quagsire @ Leftovers
    Nature- Careful
    Ability- Unaware
    252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
    Curse
    Recover
    Earthquake
    Waterfall

    I considered the non Curse set, but I did not like the absolutely pathetic Special Defense it had. I also considered using Water Absorb, but Unaware is useful in more situations.

    Luxray @ Leftovers
    Nature- Bold
    Ability- Intimidate
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Thunderbolt
    Roar / Crunch
    Toxic / Crunch
    Volt Switch

    The moveset here is what you would expect on a Toxic Stall team, but Roar or Toxic can be removed for Crunch if needed since both moves can be carried by at least two other team members.

    Vileplume @ Leftovers
    Nature- Bold
    Ability- Effect Spore
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Giga Drain
    Aromatherapy
    Moonlight
    Sludge Bomb / Venoshock

    The only thing I’m torn on is the last move. Since the team is based around Toxic, Venoshock would do more damage as long as long as the opponent is poisoned already, which is going to be very likely. Aromatherapy frees up a slot on both Altaria and Flareon, as Heal Bell isn’t needed.


    I realize that there is no Rapid Spin user on the team, but considering that only one of my Pokemon is weak to Stealth Rock, and four of them (including the weak one) have recovery moves, it was not an enormous concern. Spikes take three turns to set up for maximum damage, and if I let someone set that up, I’m not playing well. Toxic Spikes can be absorbed by Vileplume, and he can also heal anyone who was poisoned with Aromatherapy.
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      #2    
    Old May 27th, 2012 (6:31 AM).
    PlatinumDude's Avatar
    PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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    Heal Bell needs to go somewhere on Altaria so that it can rid its teammates of other statuses like burn or poison. I'll leave it up to you or anyone else who posts here where it can go.
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    Old May 27th, 2012 (7:01 AM).
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    Hikamaru Hikamaru is offline
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    Try this moveset for your Altaria:

    Careful nature
    Leftovers
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP, 228 Sp. Def, 28 Speed
    - Dragon Claw
    - Roost
    - Heal Bull / Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    It's one of the best defensive sets to use on Altaria.
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      #4    
    Old May 27th, 2012 (7:54 AM).
    VoxynZ's Avatar
    VoxynZ VoxynZ is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      Heal Bell needs to go somewhere on Altaria so that it can rid its teammates of other statuses like burn or poison. I'll leave it up to you or anyone else who posts here where it can go.
      So I need two Pokemon with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy? I'd really prefer not to have to put it on Altaria since I don't have Gen 4 access. I guess I should've mentioned this is Wifi, not a simulator.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Hikari10 View Post
      Try this moveset for your Altaria:

      Careful nature
      Leftovers
      Natural Cure
      EVs: 252 HP, 228 Sp. Def, 28 Speed
      - Dragon Claw
      - Roost
      - Heal Bull / Earthquake
      - Dragon Dance

      It's one of the best defensive sets to use on Altaria.
      What is this set supposed to outspeed with the 28 EVs? And why is DD chosen on a defensive minded set? What makes it better than having Perish Song for the last 'mon standing?
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        #5    
      Old May 27th, 2012 (8:00 AM).
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      PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by VoxynZ View Post
      So I need two Pokemon with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy? I'd really prefer not to have to put it on Altaria since I don't have Gen 4 access. I guess I should've mentioned this is Wifi, not a simulator.



      What is this set supposed to outspeed with the 28 EVs? And why is DD chosen on a defensive minded set? What makes it better than having Perish Song for the last 'mon standing?
      That's just in case if one cleric goes down, the other cleric can continue curing statuses. But since you not having Gen IV access is the case, having Vileplume as your sole cleric is fine.

      The Altaria set Hikari10 posted is meant to set up as many Dragon Dances as possible, while healing on occasion, before sweeping with it. 28 Speed EVs allows Altaria to outspeed +1 neutral-natured base 85 Speed Pokemon after 2 DD boosts. But then again, since this is a Toxic-stall team, your current Altaria set is more suited for the team.
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        #6    
      Old May 27th, 2012 (8:04 AM).
      Musica's Avatar
      Musica Musica is offline
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        I think Hikari wants to point out that you should at least have something that can kill and still maintains some bulk. Instead of Dragon Dance, you can also use Cotton Guard which will greatly help Altaria maintain its bulk then heal the damage off with Roost.
          #7    
        Old May 27th, 2012 (9:27 AM).
        VoxynZ's Avatar
        VoxynZ VoxynZ is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Musica View Post
          I think Hikari wants to point out that you should at least have something that can kill and still maintains some bulk. Instead of Dragon Dance, you can also use Cotton Guard which will greatly help Altaria maintain its bulk then heal the damage off with Roost.
          Eh, I think Quagsire can be the bulky setup sweeper if needed.

          Also, do you think Luxray can fit Crunch in his moveset? I'd like to have it, but I'm not sure how many Pokemon need Toxic/Roar. Since it is a stall team, should the answer be as many as possible?
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            #8    
          Old May 27th, 2012 (9:37 AM).
          Ephemeral Euphoria's Avatar
          Ephemeral Euphoria Ephemeral Euphoria is offline
             
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            Altaria can be an excellent DDancer due to its bulk and reliable recovery in Roost but isn't capable of much offensive prowess without Dragon Dance sadly due to its rather lackluster Atk and Sp.Atk stats. If you're going to go with a defensive set try the moveset of Roost, Cotton Guard, Toxic, and either Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse, preferably Dragon Claw since it has more PP. Cotton Guard will increase its bulk giving it the opportunity to stall with Roost until Toxic wears the opponent down. Hope that helps regarding Altaria there. You can also replace your STAB attack with either Flamethrower or Fire Blast to smack around any Steel types that may try to wall you if you find yourself in that type if situation.

            For Luxray replace I'd suggest replacing Thunderbolt with Thunder Fang since its Atk stat is naturally higher but due to the nature you're using either one is fine. I'd recommend replacing Volt Switch with Crunch though if you feel like you need it that badly.
              #9    
            Old May 27th, 2012 (9:46 AM).
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            Musica Musica is offline
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              Not really, you just have to focus on survivability of the main Pokemon. With Luxray, I think you can make it an attacker with some bulk. Also, not all Pokemon would be Toxic'ed so I suggest you put Thunder Wave on Luxray and cripple faster pokemon who will attempt to sweep.

              Luxray @ Leftovers
              Intimidate - Bold Nature (+Def -Att)
              252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
              ~Thunder Wave
              ~Volt Switch
              ~Roar
              ~Hidden Power Ice (For Ground types and Grass types which will try to out-stall Luxray) or Toxic.

              Volt-switching is the core of this set, after a (hopefully not) failed Roar, bar the Ground types, you can switch into something that can resist the opposing Pokemon's attacks. If it is a Ground-type, Altaria can come to the rescue!
                #10    
              Old May 27th, 2012 (3:30 PM).
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              VoxynZ VoxynZ is offline
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Musica View Post
                Not really, you just have to focus on survivability of the main Pokemon. With Luxray, I think you can make it an attacker with some bulk. Also, not all Pokemon would be Toxic'ed so I suggest you put Thunder Wave on Luxray and cripple faster pokemon who will attempt to sweep.

                Luxray @ Leftovers
                Intimidate - Bold Nature (+Def -Att)
                252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
                ~Thunder Wave
                ~Volt Switch
                ~Roar
                ~Hidden Power Ice (For Ground types and Grass types which will try to out-stall Luxray) or Toxic.

                Volt-switching is the core of this set, after a (hopefully not) failed Roar, bar the Ground types, you can switch into something that can resist the opposing Pokemon's attacks. If it is a Ground-type, Altaria can come to the rescue!
                I'll go with this^ set, because every single move listed is a TM, so I can swap moves around really easily. I wanted the Thunderbolt in there somewhere, but I think that you're right, that Thunder Wave is more important.

                Also, I really hadn't considered Cotton Guard on Altaria. Is it better to have a (really good) boosting move as opposed to Perish Song? I'm just worried that if the opponent's last Pokemon is a setup sweeper, I won't be able to toxic stall it before it can finish me.
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                  #11    
                Old May 27th, 2012 (3:49 PM).
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                Ephemeral Euphoria Ephemeral Euphoria is offline
                   
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                  If you're that concerned about set up sweepers you can cut Toxic and Cotton Guard for Perish Song and either a coverage move or Protect but personally I prefer using Altaria as a booster since its base stats pretty much demand it if you want to use it as either a tank or a sweeper but again that's personal preference there. Then again Unaware Quagsire should be able to handle any set up sweeper cocky enough to try and get a boost under its belt due to access to Recover and all which really does help it stay on the field longer.
                    #12    
                  Old May 27th, 2012 (4:00 PM).
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                  VoxynZ VoxynZ is offline
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Xulek View Post
                    If you're that concerned about set up sweepers you can cut Toxic and Cotton Guard for Perish Song and either a coverage move or Protect but personally I prefer using Altaria as a booster since its base stats pretty much demand it if you want to use it as either a tank or a sweeper but again that's personal preference there. Then again Unaware Quagsire should be able to handle any set up sweeper cocky enough to try and get a boost under its belt due to access to Recover and all which really does help it stay on the field longer.
                    Haha wow. I feel dumb- I forgot about Unaware. Thanks for reminding me, as now I feel a lot better about not running Perish Song. :D

                    Thank you to all who replied! I'm really inexperienced with competitive battling and am learning new things all the time.
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