Pokémon General The home for theories, clubs, polls, and other discussions involving the Pokémon franchise that aren't covered in any of the other boards.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #51    
Old July 12th, 2012 (12:40 AM).
Oryx's Avatar
Oryx Oryx is offline
CoquettishCat
  • Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
Posts: 13,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
So what you're implying is that pokemon are inherently willing to lose their freedom to be prize fighters for these trainers, so fight back to test them and not to defend their freedom? Sounds like we have a pokemon apologist on our hands, folks.

But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer. Considering they have the power to escape easily and they choose not to.

As far as violence promotion, no Pokemon die in the games, and there's no instances of children hurting their animals due to Pokemon that I know about. Do you know of any? Do you know of any dogfighters who took their inspiration from Pokemon?
__________________


Theme * Pair * VM * PM

Not all men...

Are all men stupid?

That's right.


Relevant Advertising!

  #52    
Old July 12th, 2012 (12:40 AM).
Skitty1's Avatar
Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
Highlight my signature :)
     
    Join Date: Mar 2012
    Posts: 172
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
    But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
    If it means that much to you then why are you complaining on a forum - rather than holding a sign outside of a Nintendo office?
    __________________
    made by R a c h e l
      #53    
    Old July 12th, 2012 (12:40 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by kylio_27.
    kylio_27 kylio_27 is offline
       
      Join Date: Jul 2012
      Gender: Male
      Posts: 17
      Quote:
      A wild Pokemon battles a trainers Pokemon to see if the trainer is worth making a bond with.
      Why not stop capturing pokemon and using them as tools for violent fight promotions? Let them be.

      Quote:
      Also its in Pokemon's nature to battle.
      It's an animal's nature to fight and be violent in the wild, that doesn't mean we must institutionalize such violence and promote it as entertainment.
        #54    
      Old July 12th, 2012 (12:43 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by ShinyUmbreon189.
      ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
      ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
      VLONE coming soon
         
        Join Date: Mar 2012
        Location: Chicago
        Age: 25
        Gender: Male
        Nature: Relaxed
        Posts: 1,329
        Pokemon fighting isn't even violence. You wan't violence? Killers. The pokemon don't bleed, die, stab, shoot, kill, or anything of that such. So how is it violence? Their simply doing attacks based on their type. Like fire, water, grass, electric, rock, flying, ground, psychic, steel, dark, ghost, etc. The Pokemon only get's minorly injured but brought back to normal health as soon as the trainer get's it to a Pokemon center.

        Thank you Skitty! Don't bring it here if your worried about it talk to GameFreak.
        __________________


        I spit fire, fr tho
          #55    
        Old July 12th, 2012 (12:44 AM).
        kylio_27 kylio_27 is offline
           
          Join Date: Jul 2012
          Gender: Male
          Posts: 17
          Quote:
          So to say trainers only expose Pokemon to fighting because they don't care is a fallacy, since that isn't even accurate in our universe, let alone another universe.
          I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
            #56    
          Old July 12th, 2012 (12:44 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by Skitty1.
          Skitty1's Avatar
          Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
          Highlight my signature :)
             
            Join Date: Mar 2012
            Posts: 172
            Also a Pokemon never dies it only faints.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
            I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
            ^What in the bloody hell do you think humans have been doing since we existed?!

            We [humans] have always fought, murdered, cheated and etc. to advance and that is stupid and destructive.
            __________________
            made by R a c h e l
              #57    
            Old July 12th, 2012 (12:47 AM).
            Oryx's Avatar
            Oryx Oryx is offline
            CoquettishCat
            • Crystal Tier
             
            Join Date: Mar 2011
            Age: 24
            Gender: Female
            Nature: Relaxed
            Posts: 13,204
            I think we need to clarify your actual stance here, kylio.

            Are you speaking from inside the Pokemon universe, that the universe itself is immoral and should be changed?

            Or are you speaking from outside the Pokemon universe, that the affect the franchise has on the real world is negative and the franchise should change?
            __________________


            Theme * Pair * VM * PM

            Not all men...

            Are all men stupid?

            That's right.

              #58    
            Old July 12th, 2012 (12:47 AM).
            ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
            ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
            VLONE coming soon
               
              Join Date: Mar 2012
              Location: Chicago
              Age: 25
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Relaxed
              Posts: 1,329
              You don't see Pokemon walking around with weapons and explosives. So how are they violent and destructive. THE POKEMON WANTS TO BATTLE, WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT. THE TRAINER TAKES THE POKEMON TO A POKEMON CENTER AND IT'S STILL HAPPY.
              __________________


              I spit fire, fr tho
                #59    
              Old July 12th, 2012 (12:48 AM).
              Shining Raichu's Avatar
              Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
              Expect me like you expect Jesus.
              • Platinum Tier
               
              Join Date: Feb 2011
              Location: Australia
              Age: 26
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Adamant
              Posts: 9,075
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Skitty1
              Also a Pokemon never dies it only faints.
              Go tell that to the people of Lavender Town.
              __________________

              "So this is why God bombed us."

              Moderator of General Chat

                #60    
              Old July 12th, 2012 (12:49 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by Oryx.
              kylio_27 kylio_27 is offline
                 
                Join Date: Jul 2012
                Gender: Male
                Posts: 17
                Quote:
                Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer.
                Boxers aren't captured, and conditioned into this career, they choose it. Pokemon are essentially wild animals(regardless of intelligence), so just let them live in the wild. Let them apply their "nature" naturally.

                Promoting violence for entertainment, whether it is boxing, or pokemon, is morally reprehensible, and immature.

                Quote:
                Pokemon fighting isn't even violence.
                Fighting IS violence. It is the initiation of force on another individual. The pokemon world promotes this violent nature for entertainment.
                  #61    
                Old July 12th, 2012 (12:51 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by ShinyUmbreon189.
                ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                VLONE coming soon
                   
                  Join Date: Mar 2012
                  Location: Chicago
                  Age: 25
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Relaxed
                  Posts: 1,329
                  Pokemon choose to be caught too. When the Pokemon is battling a trainer it's testing the trainer that's all. @Shining Raichu, now you know that team rocket is the ones who killed the Pokemon.

                  Hahahahahahaha! This dude is seriously making me laugh. Pokemon isn't violence okay! Pokemon is just a FAKE universe.
                  __________________


                  I spit fire, fr tho
                    #62    
                  Old July 12th, 2012 (12:54 AM).
                  Skitty1's Avatar
                  Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
                  Highlight my signature :)
                     
                    Join Date: Mar 2012
                    Posts: 172
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
                    Go tell that to the people of Lavender Town.
                    Ugh... now you choose to step out of the blue and take a stab at me?
                    ________________________________

                    Any way yes fighting is violence but violence is what sells these days.
                    __________________
                    made by R a c h e l
                      #63    
                    Old July 12th, 2012 (12:55 AM).
                    Shining Raichu's Avatar
                    Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
                    Expect me like you expect Jesus.
                    • Platinum Tier
                     
                    Join Date: Feb 2011
                    Location: Australia
                    Age: 26
                    Gender: Male
                    Nature: Adamant
                    Posts: 9,075
                    Team Rocket did not kill all of the Pokemon that were laid to rest in the tower at Lavender Town. Even if they did, it's not particularly relevant because regardless of who killed them, it still shows they can die rather than just faint. If a Team Rocket member can kill a Pokemon, why can't another Pokemon?

                    There is no magical force to speak of preventing Pokemon death.
                    __________________

                    "So this is why God bombed us."

                    Moderator of General Chat

                      #64    
                    Old July 12th, 2012 (12:58 AM).
                    ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                    ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                    VLONE coming soon
                       
                      Join Date: Mar 2012
                      Location: Chicago
                      Age: 25
                      Gender: Male
                      Nature: Relaxed
                      Posts: 1,329
                      @Skitty, I bet Shining Raichu is cracking up about this right now and that's why she said that.
                      But seriously dude, why are you so worried about Pokemon and violence? I'm pretty sure you play M rated games and they are 100000x more violent than Pokemon will ever be.
                      __________________


                      I spit fire, fr tho
                        #65    
                      Old July 12th, 2012 (12:58 AM). Edited July 12th, 2012 by Oryx.
                      Skitty1's Avatar
                      Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
                      Highlight my signature :)
                         
                        Join Date: Mar 2012
                        Posts: 172
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
                        Team Rocket did not kill all of the Pokemon that were laid to rest in the tower at Lavender Town. Even if they did, it's not particularly relevant because regardless of who killed them, it still shows they can die rather than just faint. If a Team Rocket member can kill a Pokemon, why can't another Pokemon?

                        There is no magical force to speak of preventing Pokemon death.
                        Ok, ok a Pokemon can die but most often they faint (at least thats what I see) I figured Pokemon only faint so Nintendo could keep the violence toned down.

                        I am getting tired of arguing semantics though...
                        __________________
                        made by R a c h e l
                          #66    
                        Old July 12th, 2012 (1:06 AM).
                        Oryx's Avatar
                        Oryx Oryx is offline
                        CoquettishCat
                        • Crystal Tier
                         
                        Join Date: Mar 2011
                        Age: 24
                        Gender: Female
                        Nature: Relaxed
                        Posts: 13,204
                        If you think about it though, basically what everyone is debating is headcanon. Do you see Pokemon as sub-human animals, being captured against their will and forced to battle whether or not they want to? Or do you see Pokemon as sentient beings capable of making their own decisions, choosing to go with a trainer and battling because they enjoy it? Both ways are supported by various parts of canon, so nothing can truly be proved either way.
                        __________________


                        Theme * Pair * VM * PM

                        Not all men...

                        Are all men stupid?

                        That's right.

                          #67    
                        Old July 12th, 2012 (1:09 AM).
                        ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                        ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                        VLONE coming soon
                           
                          Join Date: Mar 2012
                          Location: Chicago
                          Age: 25
                          Gender: Male
                          Nature: Relaxed
                          Posts: 1,329
                          I agree with Toujours. As I stated earlier in numerous posts actually that the Pokemon is happy battling and is testing the trainer when they are battling him/her. I can't count how many times Pokemon free willingly joined Ash's team.
                          __________________


                          I spit fire, fr tho
                            #68    
                          Old July 12th, 2012 (1:12 AM).
                          Skitty1's Avatar
                          Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
                          Highlight my signature :)
                             
                            Join Date: Mar 2012
                            Posts: 172
                            I see Pokemon as sprites (which is what they are) - granted I love Skitty (not romantically) because of how cute the way it sounds and acts but I realize it is only a fictional being.
                            __________________
                            made by R a c h e l
                              #69    
                            Old July 12th, 2012 (1:18 AM).
                            ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                            ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                            VLONE coming soon
                               
                              Join Date: Mar 2012
                              Location: Chicago
                              Age: 25
                              Gender: Male
                              Nature: Relaxed
                              Posts: 1,329
                              I see Pokemon the same way. I don't think there is violence in Pokemon I just play the game because it's interesting, fun, and very very addicting.
                              __________________


                              I spit fire, fr tho
                                #70    
                              Old July 12th, 2012 (1:18 AM).
                              kylio_27 kylio_27 is offline
                                 
                                Join Date: Jul 2012
                                Gender: Male
                                Posts: 17
                                Quote:
                                If you think about it though, basically what everyone is debating is headcanon. Do you see Pokemon as sub-human animals, being captured against their will and forced to battle whether or not they want to? Or do you see Pokemon as sentient beings capable of making their own decisions, choosing to go with a trainer and battling because they enjoy it? Both ways are supported by various parts of canon, so nothing can truly be proved either way.
                                I can live with that.

                                What I can't get over is how the universe promotes violence byway of prize fighting entertainment, and is encouraged.
                                  #71    
                                Old July 12th, 2012 (1:20 AM).
                                ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                                ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                                VLONE coming soon
                                   
                                  Join Date: Mar 2012
                                  Location: Chicago
                                  Age: 25
                                  Gender: Male
                                  Nature: Relaxed
                                  Posts: 1,329
                                  Ask nintendo about this one. We can't help you here. We don't see it as violence we see it as interesting, fun, and have you ever played the game? It's so addicting.
                                  __________________


                                  I spit fire, fr tho
                                    #72    
                                  Old July 12th, 2012 (1:23 AM).
                                  Skitty1's Avatar
                                  Skitty1 Skitty1 is offline
                                  Highlight my signature :)
                                     
                                    Join Date: Mar 2012
                                    Posts: 172
                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
                                    I can live with that.

                                    What I can't get over is how the universe promotes violence byway of prize fighting entertainment, and is encouraged.
                                    YES! we have converted a nonbeliever!!! الحمد لله thank goodness!
                                    __________________
                                    made by R a c h e l
                                      #73    
                                    Old July 12th, 2012 (1:29 AM).
                                    ShinyUmbreon189's Avatar
                                    ShinyUmbreon189 ShinyUmbreon189 is offline
                                    VLONE coming soon
                                       
                                      Join Date: Mar 2012
                                      Location: Chicago
                                      Age: 25
                                      Gender: Male
                                      Nature: Relaxed
                                      Posts: 1,329
                                      ^don't get your hopes up yet Skitty. We may of have converted him but he still thinks the same with pokemon with violence and all that. It's just his opinion.
                                      __________________


                                      I spit fire, fr tho
                                        #74    
                                      Old July 12th, 2012 (1:42 AM).
                                      Zebraiken Zebraiken is offline
                                         
                                        Join Date: Jul 2012
                                        Gender: Male
                                        Posts: 5
                                        I kinda agree with the first poster, actually. :x Though I don't try to think about the impact that doing that has on the Pokemon, I can understand how there are bad parts, however there are also good parts - some Pokemon such as Pikachu in the anime can't live w/o Ash, so I see that as a positive thing rather than negative. Sure there are bad things but I guess it relates to the trainer, but overall I guess it's up to the Pokemon. Maybe allowing a Pokemon to escape might make it a bit fairer but I doubt any Pokemon willingly would.
                                        __________________
                                        not my alt.
                                          #75    
                                        Old July 12th, 2012 (1:49 AM).
                                        MiTjA's Avatar
                                        MiTjA MiTjA is offline
                                        Poké-atheist
                                           
                                          Join Date: Mar 2005
                                          Location: Slovenia
                                          Age: 27
                                          Nature: Serious
                                          Posts: 587
                                          1. If the pokemon did not want to battle for the trainer, it could
                                          a. run away
                                          b. attack the trainer
                                          2. Pokemon are not the same as real world animals. They are generally more intelligent, and they are much tougher, as they survive being hit by all sorts of attacks that would be fatal to humans or animals.
                                          3. I can only speculate what goes on inside pokeballs, but Im confident its not like being in a room staring at a wall for days. In other words, it seems like biological processes are paused. They don't feel time passing, they don't heal or get worse without immediate care, they don't starve or grow.


                                          The pokemon are not resisting the capture within a pokeball because they dont want the trainer to catch it. Because while they do resist the pokeball, they don't even attempt to flee (except for roamers...).
                                          Resisting the pokeball is part of checking if the trainer is worth it.



                                          The pokemon has 2 possibilities when meeting a trainer that might try to catch it:
                                          -it can remain wild, surviving on its own, searching for food, shelter..
                                          -being caught by the trainer, which assures its safety, and enables it to grow stronger
                                          __________________
                                          Closed Thread
                                          Quick Reply

                                          Sponsored Links
                                          Thread Tools

                                          Posting Rules
                                          You may not post new threads
                                          You may not post replies
                                          You may not post attachments
                                          You may not edit your posts

                                          BB code is On
                                          Smilies are On
                                          [IMG] code is On
                                          HTML code is Off

                                          Forum Jump


                                          All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:04 AM.