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Spoilers BW092 - Junior Cup opening

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  #1    
Old July 6th, 2012 (11:29 AM). Edited July 6th, 2012 by Kenshin5.
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    ジュニアカップ開幕!カイリューVSツンベアー!!
    Junior Cup Opening ! Dragonite VS Beartic !!

    Airdate: August 2nd

    The "Pokémon World Tournament Junior Cup" finally begins. After the exhibition match, one of the highlights of the tournament, ends with great success, the opening match of the first round starts. Iris' Dragonite faces Dragon Buster Georgia's Beartic...


    They did it...
    They did it...
    THEY GAVE IRIS AN ANGRY DRAGONITE
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      #2    
    Old July 6th, 2012 (4:02 PM).
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    I TOLD YOU SO! I'm looking at you Akio. :3
    I'm so glad she got Dragonite. It's the perfect way to redeem her status, at least in my opinion. I'm glad to see Georgia! I hope we see Burgundy! Neither of them appeared in the opening. :'<

    Seeing as she's actually using it, I'm assuming it's probably lost that temper, and will probably be calm once again, which like I speculated before, is most likely Iris' doing.
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    Old July 6th, 2012 (10:15 PM).
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      A. Mew~, the fact that you had to point it out means this is one of the few victories you will ever have in life. Enjoy it ;D Kinda sad, but meh.
      e
      B. I admit defeat to you and Ashwhateverconstantlyusesthejapanesenamestosoundcoolorsomething.

      C. Probably. Apparently the writer's have given up so I'm just going to agree with everything you people say until the show makes sense again.
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      Old July 6th, 2012 (11:10 PM).
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      I just wonder, why Dragonite? Why not Hydregion or Salamence which is actually on her in-game team.

      As for the tournament itself I am more anticipating this rumored new rival of Ash that is supposed to appear.
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      Old July 7th, 2012 (12:05 AM).
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      As expected :D
      Akio: Wow, you remembered =D And I'm using Japanese names because I watch in Japanese =D Not because I want to sound cool or something
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      Old July 7th, 2012 (12:24 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Kenshin5 View Post
        I just wonder, why Dragonite? Why not Hydregion or Salamence which is actually on her in-game team.
        EXACTLY

        Dragonite is the most random Pokemon they could have given to her. I mean they have the chance to give her a Deino, they could have worked in a Bagon.

        Then again...well Dragonite is one of the more popular dragons in Japan. I guess they realized "Oh crap, this is a super marketable Pokemon!" My issue is why didn't they just give her a Dratini? Heck even a Dragonair; why a fully evolve Dragonite?

        I mean they didn't give Ash a Garchomp, no they gave him a Gible to work with (who better show up and evolve at some point >_>).

        I'm sorry, this is the single worst piece of writing in the show's history. (Yes this is worst than Takuto because it's long term).
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        Old July 7th, 2012 (1:18 AM).
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        A. Mew~, the fact that you had to point it out means this is one of the few victories you will ever have in life. Enjoy it ;D Kinda sad, but meh.
        You do realise how disgusting what you just said was, right? What do you know about me to make such judgements, especially behind a computer screen. Don't be such a pessimist and admit your argument was wrong.


        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
        EXACTLY
        Dragonite is the most random Pokemon they could have given to her. I mean they have the chance to give her a Deino, they could have worked in a Bagon.
        I thought it was pretty obvious it was it promote previous gen Pokémon, and to give her something to show we're going to be more old Pokémon...

        If we're going for the "why not something in her in-game team?" argument, why does she have an Excadrill? Or that Emolga? Seriously though, the fact is it's a giant leap in the right direction. Her goal is to be a Dragon master, there wouldn't be any point in giving her a weak Pokémon to work with at this point. She already worked with a Deino, and she proved she could handle it and make it open it's heart to her. She also still has Axew. Dragonite proves she can control a bigger and more powerful Dragon...
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        Old July 7th, 2012 (1:33 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Mew~ View Post

          You do realise how disgusting what you just said was, right? What do you know about me to make such judgements, especially behind a computer screen. Don't be such a pessimist and admit your argument was wrong.



          I thought it was pretty obvious it was it promote previous gen Pokémon, and to give her something to show we're going to be more old Pokémon...

          If we're going for the "why not something in her in-game team?" argument, why does she have an Excadrill? Or that Emolga? Seriously though, the fact is it's a giant leap in the right direction. Her goal is to be a Dragon master, there wouldn't be any point in giving her a weak Pokémon to work with at this point. She already worked with a Deino, and she proved she could handle it and make it open it's heart to her. She also still has Axew. Dragonite proves she can control a bigger and more powerful Dragon...
          A. I think you're taking my first statement a little too seriously. I clearly have admitted defeat, because she's getting Dragonite. If you're taking the rest of that too seriously, it's your problem and I'm not going to deal with it because personally I don't feel as though I need to.

          B. I get that the point is to promote old Pokemon. But you kind of missed the rest of my post. I'm fine with the Dragonite line, just not Dragonite right off the bat. I like how you only argued the Deino thing when it's clear I'm fine with her with Dragons, just not a fully evolved.

          To be a Dragon master it makes more sense for her to raise a weak dragon into a strong one. Yes, it's laudible to capture a fully evolved Dragon and basically control it fully, but it's more laudible to take a weaker dragon and raise it into a strong one. Think about it;

          Trainer A is walking down a path and sees a sleeping Hydreigon. Sends out Walrein, freezes it and catches it...so by your logic this person is a dragon mater.

          Trainer B: Gets a Bagon egg. It starts off weak, but after bonding, much training, and work it evolves it's a Salamence. By your logic, this is not a Dragon master.

          Yes, a dragon master wants to capture strong dragon Pokemon, but they first need to work with their own dragons. Axew has become a bit stronger, but he is still ways away from being a Haxorus (his dream and what the elder wanted Iris to do with him). She needs to focus on the weaker Pokemon before just jumping onto the strong ones.

          C. I just want to point out, for the "Game team" argument; First off I use the manta anime=/=games more than anymore here lulz. That said, the argument stems from the fact that Hydreigon appears in this episode. They could have easily made Dragonite the villainous one (and let's be honest going by the title, it's going to be a bit of a D-bag anyway lol) and she could have gotten Hydreigon. It just makes more sense, because they chose a Pokemon that IS on her game team as her Dragonite's opponent (see I clearly have accepted I'm wrong)
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            #9    
          Old July 7th, 2012 (7:15 AM).
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          "Mew~, the fact that you had to point it out means this is one of the few victories you will ever have in life."
          Saying this was unnecessary as Mew already mentioned regardless if you meant it seriously or not Mew saw it as insulting. So if you do have comments like this just keep them to yourself cause all its going to do is end up bad for everyone. If you have anything farther to discuss on this issue keep it to the pms.

          Now to the actually topic.

          Do we actually have a defintion of what Dragon Master is? Because I don't see why it really matters if she has a fully evolved pokemon, since more then likely she had to either battle it which takes effort or win it over which also takes effort. And training the pokemon doesn't necessarily mean the only way to show your skills as a Dragon trainer its just one of the qualities that makes a good dragon trainer like she is already doing with Axew. She has already worked with a few Dragons in the past such as Druddigon and Axew she didn't capture either but she still used this instances to develop as a Dragon trainer. Also for all we know Dragonite won't exactly be willing pokemon as the prior episode title suggests, so she may have to put a bit of effort into training it to properly obey.

          Now would I have preferred they had her catch Dratini or Bagon or their second stages yes, but it is what it is. So hopefully we get to see her development with Axew no farther progress since as you said it has the desire to be a Haxorus and Iris has the desire to be a strong Dragon trainer.
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            #10    
          Old July 7th, 2012 (7:59 AM). Edited July 7th, 2012 by Akio123.
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            A. Fair enough: Mew, lemme just go ahead and apologize I was in sort of a bad bad mood before (lack of sleep does that) and was sort of projecting. It was childish, and I would like to apologize. (I'm just apologizing Kenshin, not dragging it out)

            B. I'm using people Iris seems to look up to like Drayden or Cynthia. For some reason, I don't think they just caught their signatures, you know? Like, I feel to be a Dragon master, yes you need to capture many dragon Pokemon...that said I feel like...okay as terrible as a comparison as this is...it seems like a breeder, you have to raise the Pokemon to it's fullest potential. Again, I don't think someone who randomly caught a Kingdra can be called a Dragon master.

            Admittedly, like a Pokemon master, it's a rather vague goal, but I dunno...she still seems like a bit of a novice. Then again, who knows? Maybe Dragonite will be sort of a weakling to balance things out. Or maybe it will be a more standard version of the Charizard expy this gen, who knows?
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            Old July 7th, 2012 (8:16 AM).
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            If they are strong enough as a trainer to capture it and readily use it I don't see why not though. It seems to take training and battle skills combined. Sure giving her a Dragonite is easy but it may not obey like Charizard and Mamoswine. Dragon Master seems like a glorified version of a Dragon Tamer trainer class. Tamer implies they tame the dragons so in this situation Iris is using her taming skills to tame this "rough" Dragonite. She can still show her skills in developing as well with Axew since we have already seen powerful moves and development such as Dragon Rage and Outrage. Axew seems to be getting stronger and stronger so I think see is playing the sort of breeder role, tamer role, and strong trainer role. Which culminates in her eventually be a Dragon Master.
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            Old July 7th, 2012 (8:26 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Kenshin5 View Post
              If they are strong enough as a trainer to capture it and readily use it I don't see why not though. It seems to take training and battle skills combined. Sure giving her a Dragonite is easy but it may not obey like Charizard and Mamoswine. Dragon Master seems like a glorified version of a Dragon Tamer trainer class. Tamer implies they tame the dragons so in this situation Iris is using her taming skills to tame this "rough" Dragonite. She can still show her skills in developing as well with Axew since we have already seen powerful moves and development such as Dragon Rage and Outrage. Axew seems to be getting stronger and stronger so I think see is playing the sort of breeder role, tamer role, and strong trainer role. Which culminates in her eventually be a Dragon Master.
              Tell that to Buizel. He really didn't listen to Dawn, right off the back. Yeah, he was caught, but they still kind of had to befriend him first. Heck even Swinub and Emolga were pretty awful. Also, remember it's called the Roughneck Dragonite, I mean a 180 in personality after 1 episode seems like even worse writing to me. I mean I'm going to be honest; there is NO way to make Iris not seem like a Mary-Sue if she is still sort of a novice and she's getting a supposedly Jerky pseudo-legendary to be all happy and palsy with her after 1 episode...I'm sorry that just...that's really lazy writing then.

              Yes, Axew is getting stronger more and more by the day, but that's her legitimately raising a Pokemon to it's fullest (compare him not being able to use Scratch properly at first, to being able to land a good clean hit with Giga Impact on Garchomp). I applaud her for that, and as I said before, I want her to have more dragons, but all that said give her something else to raise into a strong Pokemon. Heck, they can give her a strong baby pokemon or a 1st stage evo Pokemon. (Again, I would have totally been in love with her getting a Dragonair).

              Off topic: Are we not labeling that it's Season 2 with each episode?
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              Old July 7th, 2012 (1:35 PM).
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              Quote:
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              B. I get that the point is to promote old Pokemon. But you kind of missed the rest of my post. I'm fine with the Dragonite line, just not Dragonite right off the bat. I like how you only argued the Deino thing when it's clear I'm fine with her with Dragons, just not a fully evolved.
              I didn't miss your point, I understood it. I mentioned Deino because she doesn't need a basic Pokémon when she's already proven she can handle them.

              Quote:
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              To be a Dragon master it makes more sense for her to raise a weak dragon into a strong one.
              My argument was she's already done so.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
              Trainer A is walking down a path and sees a sleeping Hydreigon. Sends out Walrein, freezes it and catches it...so by your logic this person is a dragon mater.
              No, again that's an assumption you're making. As explicitly said 'giant leap in the right direction' she isn't quite there yet.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
              Trainer B: Gets a Bagon egg. It starts off weak, but after bonding, much training, and work it evolves it's a Salamence. By your logic, this is not a Dragon master.
              I haven't said anything that would suggest that. If anything it's small steps.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
              C. I just want to point out, for the "Game team" argument; First off I use the manta anime=/=games more than anymore here lulz. That said, the argument stems from the fact that Hydreigon appears in this episode. They could have easily made Dragonite the villainous one (and let's be honest going by the title, it's going to be a bit of a D-bag anyway lol) and she could have gotten Hydreigon. It just makes more sense, because they chose a Pokemon that IS on her game team as her Dragonite's opponent (see I clearly have accepted I'm wrong)
              But you're expecting the writers to be predictable, which is boring. Let's face it, they usually always are, but I'm going to take it for what it's worth. If anything I can sort of agree maybe a Hydreigon may have been a better choice, but then there's advertising for previous gens etc.


              Honestly though, look at this in all perspective, although I think it's justified. I do agree with Akio that it's a bit random. My only thought is that because we're nearing the end of Unova, we might be saying goodbye to Iris, so giving her a Dragonite would show the audience she's on the right path without having to travel with Ash. Does that make sense? Meh.
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                #14    
              Old July 7th, 2012 (2:23 PM).
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                ^A. She hasn't really made Axew a Haxorus yet. I don't see that as a valid argument until it's at least a Fraxure.Yeah, it's stronger than it was before, but it still has ways to go. We just have two very different opinions here

                B. It's not really an assumption, it's a giant leap that goes from "Dragon master in training" right to Mary Sue.

                C. It would be predictable, and yeah they want to advertise old gen, but they are doing it to advertise B2W2. (That's why Cynthia now has a Glaceon). I mean I wold accept this argument if she got Flygon (begrudgingly, but I still would). I mean then it's the same as Cilan arbitrarily getting a Garchomp.

                All in all, I'll say it again, I like Iris getting more dragons. My issue is that this in particular dragon just seems so random. (You said it yourself). With that logic of BW ending soon, that is the same sort of justification used for Togekiss. It just doesn't work for me is all.
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                Old July 7th, 2012 (3:03 PM).
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                Tell that to Buizel. He really didn't listen to Dawn, right off the back. Yeah, he was caught, but they still kind of had to befriend him first. Heck even Swinub and Emolga were pretty awful. Also, remember it's called the Roughneck Dragonite, I mean a 180 in personality after 1 episode seems like even worse writing to me. I mean I'm going to be honest; there is NO way to make Iris not seem like a Mary-Sue if she is still sort of a novice and she's getting a supposedly Jerky pseudo-legendary to be all happy and palsy with her after 1 episode...I'm sorry that just...that's really lazy writing then.

                Yes, Axew is getting stronger more and more by the day, but that's her legitimately raising a Pokemon to it's fullest (compare him not being able to use Scratch properly at first, to being able to land a good clean hit with Giga Impact on Garchomp). I applaud her for that, and as I said before, I want her to have more dragons, but all that said give her something else to raise into a strong Pokemon. Heck, they can give her a strong baby pokemon or a 1st stage evo Pokemon. (Again, I would have totally been in love with her getting a Dragonair).

                Off topic: Are we not labeling that it's Season 2 with each episode?
                I don't see even if Dragonite was used that it would really obey per say. Dragonite could do what it wants and not listen to Iris commands then Bearartic and Georgia show Dragonite what it means to work as a team and it is in a way humbled like Charizard was against Poliwrath. No it doesn't have to be a one episode turn around and I don't think it will be the relationship will progress over time.

                No not yet, I will probably re-add it once I get to redo all the topics post BW 023 & 024 as I don't think they will ever air the Plasma episodes early on. And if you create a topic instead of posting (Spoiler) in the topic title use the suffix next to topic title.

                Quote:
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                ^A. She hasn't really made Axew a Haxorus yet. I don't see that as a valid argument until it's at least a Fraxure.Yeah, it's stronger than it was before, but it still has ways to go. We just have two very different opinions here

                B. It's not really an assumption, it's a giant leap that goes from "Dragon master in training" right to Mary Sue.

                C. It would be predictable, and yeah they want to advertise old gen, but they are doing it to advertise B2W2. (That's why Cynthia now has a Glaceon). I mean I wold accept this argument if she got Flygon (begrudgingly, but I still would). I mean then it's the same as Cilan arbitrarily getting a Garchomp.

                All in all, I'll say it again, I like Iris getting more dragons. My issue is that this in particular dragon just seems so random. (You said it yourself). With that logic of BW ending soon, that is the same sort of justification used for Togekiss. It just doesn't work for me is all.
                Evolution is a point you can hang your hat on, but as we have seen in the past Ash has plenty of unevolved pokemon with ample strength to even live up to their evolve forums i.e. Bulbasaur.
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                Old July 7th, 2012 (8:30 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Kenshin5 View Post
                  I don't see even if Dragonite was used that it would really obey per say. Dragonite could do what it wants and not listen to Iris commands then Bearartic and Georgia show Dragonite what it means to work as a team and it is in a way humbled like Charizard was against Poliwrath. No it doesn't have to be a one episode turn around and I don't think it will be the relationship will progress over time.

                  No not yet, I will probably re-add it once I get to redo all the topics post BW 023 & 024 as I don't think they will ever air the Plasma episodes early on. And if you create a topic instead of posting (Spoiler) in the topic title use the suffix next to topic title.


                  Evolution is a point you can hang your hat on, but as we have seen in the past Ash has plenty of unevolved pokemon with ample strength to even live up to their evolve forums i.e. Bulbasaur.
                  A. See if it doesn't obey, then that's at least some sort of writer's saving throw. I mean if we have a violent high leveled (and thusly VERY dangerous) Pokemon magically being pals with Iris after an episode, then that's as Mary Sue-ish as Richie, Xion, Sora, Soledad and Bella Swan combined. I mean if it's humbled, yeah it's an expy, but at least it's a good way to develop it's character. I mean even Mamoswine after he started listening was sort of Tsundere-ish and aloof, you know? Charizard disobeyed for a long time. Excadrill gets a pass because he's Iris's starter and thus been with her the longest. If one episode after it starts listening then...yeah. (Buizel was different because...well let's face it he listened but he was still a bit of jerk throughout the entire run of D/P XD). As such...I disagree, I think that Dragonite will progress over time with his/her relationship with Iris.

                  B. Okay fair enough, it's just I noticed the title change and I added the BW2 thing because Newtype considers it a sequel series.

                  C. I get your point, but...wouldn't Squirtle have been a better example? I mean you pick the one that rejected evolution lol. I'm not saying that a Pokemon in it's first stage can't be strong, I admitted earlier Axew has gotten stronger (I did point out, it did dent Garchomp...you all seem to be overlooking that just to argue). It's just that, because Iris was GIVEN Axew to become a Haxorus, and given that BW is ending soon (like Mew said), shouldn't that be more of the focus, than just deciding "Oh wait, she needs a new Dragon!" (important, but at the very least by now it should be a Fraxure).
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                  Old July 12th, 2012 (12:43 PM).
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                  Apparently Ash is using Leavanny in the first round. Good to see it in use here and in Roxie gym. Cilan is using Pansage against a guy with a Galvantula. Burgundy is using a Darmanitan. Trip as the opening shows is using a Serperior. Kind of sucks these matches aren't 3 on 3 at least.
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                  Old July 13th, 2012 (8:49 AM).
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                    Quote:
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                    Apparently Ash is using Leavanny in the first round. Good to see it in use here and in Roxie gym. Cilan is using Pansage against a guy with a Galvantula. Burgundy is using a Darmanitan. Trip as the opening shows is using a Serperior. Kind of sucks these matches aren't 3 on 3 at least.
                    Where did you see this? Also...I mean she needed a fire type, but honestly since it's now the B2W2 era, would have been nice to see her with an older fire type.
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                      #19    
                    Old July 13th, 2012 (12:34 PM).
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                    Satoshi Ookami Satoshi Ookami is offline
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
                    Where did you see this? Also...I mean she needed a fire type, but honestly since it's now the B2W2 era, would have been nice to see her with an older fire type.
                    It was on Bulbapedia. Dunno if he got it from there but I've seen it there.
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                      #20    
                    Old July 13th, 2012 (1:21 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Akio123 View Post
                    Where did you see this? Also...I mean she needed a fire type, but honestly since it's now the B2W2 era, would have been nice to see her with an older fire type.
                    It was on the first page of Bulba News.
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                      #21    
                    Old July 14th, 2012 (11:47 PM).
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                      I saw it a little after you posted it. Also apparently Bianca and Stephan aren't in it...

                      Seriously, the Junior cup still seems like it's shaping up to be another Don Battle, I really had high hopes for this.
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                        #22    
                      Old July 15th, 2012 (8:11 AM).
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                      Yeah Junior Cup is yet again an over hyped tournament that they could have did more with. Now if it is Unova Junior Cup that makes sense. But if it is World tournament it only seems legit if you have competitors around the world in this and strong ones at that.

                      Sad to say, but you are probably getting your hopes up like I did with the first Don Tournament in Nimbasa Town.
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                        #23    
                      Old July 15th, 2012 (10:37 AM).
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                      Akio123 Akio123 is offline
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                        I mean seriously, this was an opportunity to have a ton of old characters show up (Paul, Zoey, Nando, Sakura etc). I mean like when I heard they are going to be using one of the World Tournaments...I assumed they would be using characters from around the world...but I guess not...
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                          #24    
                        Old July 16th, 2012 (12:56 AM).
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                        Satoshi Ookami Satoshi Ookami is offline
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                        Maybe all of that is because it's only a Junior Cup not full-fledged PWT...
                        Maybe we will see a PWT we know from games later =)
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                          #25    
                        Old July 16th, 2012 (1:35 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Ash493 View Post
                          Maybe all of that is because it's only a Junior Cup not full-fledged PWT...
                          Maybe we will see a PWT we know from games later =)
                          Remember there are several PWTs in the game.

                          There is a sort of "Junior cup" in Driftveil (it's the Level 25 and below version you have to enter), I mean like saying because it's a Junior cup means nothing.

                          I mean we have characters using their strongest Pokemon, Junior just refers to the fact that there are probably younger trainers mostly. That doesn't mean the same characters we have seen in tournaments over and over need to enter again (BTW Stephan and Bianca aren't entering apparently)
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