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Old July 19th, 2012 (2:59 PM).
Liliana Vess Liliana Vess is offline
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What's your opinion of it? Do you think it's completely wrong and it's stealing? Or do you think that it actually encourages people to get into a franchise by pirating the content first to try it out?
Also what do you think of the way the people are combating illegal file sharing? (e.g. taking down megaupload and some internet providers blocking thepiratebay)
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Old July 20th, 2012 (4:44 AM).
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Okay, I will confess and say I have downloaded files illegally in the past, but nowadays I don't download illegally. It certainly is stealing and it's subtracting money from the person who worked hard to publish their file (like a song, for example) and request it'd be obtained via a payment, but then it's going all around P2P networks not costing the downloaders anything.

As for the Megaupload taking down, I think that was a bit wrong. There were those who have uploaded non-pirated files on Megaupload just as a simple cloud solution for file sharing, but because of the DMCA copyright violations on the site, the whole thing had to get taken down. And for TPB, I don't use that site. For one, I'm not a torrent downloader and because The Pirate Bay is actually known for its copyright violations, hence why many ISPs are blocking them.
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Old July 20th, 2012 (4:53 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachLMedia View Post
Okay, I will confess and say I have downloaded files illegally in the past, but nowadays I don't download illegally. It certainly is stealing and it's subtracting money from the person who worked hard to publish their file (like a song, for example) and request it'd be obtained via a payment, but then it's going all around P2P networks not costing the downloaders anything.

As for the Megaupload taking down, I think that was a bit wrong. There were those who have uploaded non-pirated files on Megaupload just as a simple cloud solution for file sharing, but because of the DMCA copyright violations on the site, the whole thing had to get taken down. And for TPB, I don't use that site. For one, I'm not a torrent downloader and because The Pirate Bay is actually known for its copyright violations, hence why many ISPs are blocking them.
I think you're a bit oversimplifying. There are three kinds of pirates:

1. The person that wants the game but can't afford or/will not pay for it, so pirates it.
2. The person that wants the game and would buy it if they didn't have the option to pirate.
3. The person that is intending to buy the game if they enjoy it.

Person 1 is not a loss to the company. They would not have bought the game otherwise so it's no lost revenue, and in fact if the person ends up liking the game they may buy future products or spread through word of mouth that the musician or developer is skilled which is a net gain for them.

Person 2 is a net loss for the company, no doubt about that. These are the people that the companies want to reign in with their strict ways of keeping people from pirating; because if the option isn't there, they would gain more money from them.

Person 3 is a net gain for a good company that makes good music/games. If the person didn't have the option to try the game first, they may not shell out 40-60 bucks, only to get 20 when they trade it back in because it's a bad game.

What you have to do is separate out the 3 and see why the person pirates. Also another thing to consider is there's more price to a game than the physical tag: I once heard games described in terms of price, convenience, and morality. While each of them are calculated differently for each person depending on how strongly they care about each of the values, the point is still the same - the one that costs the lowest in these 3 values will be the route that the person takes. If the person is pirating a game from a publisher they like for example, the morality cost would be higher as they would want to support that publisher. If they pirate an online game, the convenience cost would be higher because they would be unable to connect to the official servers and play with their friends.
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Old July 20th, 2012 (5:27 AM). Edited July 20th, 2012 by machomuu.
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We used to have discussions about this sort of thing all the time back on the Temp (being an underground community where talk of piracy was simple conversation made it an inevitability). I was a major pirate years back, and there were several reasons for this. The first, and probably the most prominent (yet the one I am most shameful of) was because it was easy and free. I was a Middle/High School student withy no income and few forms of pay, piracy was so simple that when I was introduced to it (though I originally didn't know that it was wrong) I was hooked. In recent years I've been trying to recoup by buying games that I still have that are pirated (MH3, PW: Rise from the Ashes, and a slew of digital downloads are crossed off of my "to buy" list. So you could say that it was both due to me having no income and "just because", but from a moral point of view I don't know if either one it really in the blue.

The second reason is something that I'm actually quite happy of the result of. My Wii had been collecting dust and I had few games for it, but when I heard you could hack it for Homebrew (which I didn't know could result in piracy at the time) I did it immediately. I started with self-piracy (games I previously owned), then went on to bigger games. This is really what made me fall in love with the Wii (and later the DS). There are a good number of gems on the Wii (especially for the seventh generation), and they're often overlooked. Heck, I overlooked them, too. However, I wasn't limited by price with piracy, I walked freely in a mall that allowed my to pick anything and leave, and it was because of this that I was able to try out some of the best games I've ever played, including Ace Attorney, 999, Monster Hunter, etc. There were so many good games on the two systems that my 360 and PS3 started being the ones collecting dust, and it really revived the love I had for Nintendo that I had at a younger age.

The third reason makes the moral scale wobble in both directions a little. As I mentioned before, there was self-piracy. This, I'm actually completely okay with, especially since companies are trying to faze out used games and incorporate digital downloads into everything. As I said, at a younger age I had no income, and my parents would only buy games for me if it was my birthday or Christmas or for some report card (they were trying to get me to understand discipline and money management, they stopped buying me games at around age 6). How is a gamer to live without money? Trading in games. That was the only way to do it for me, and I traded in a lot of games I would later regret selling and would sometimes buy them back (probably the game that I sold that I regret the most, to this day, is Persona 4). I've lost a lot of great games that way, so I've decided that I would redownload them. Granted, I always prefer having actual copies, self-piracy has actually been a means that I've been okay with (not that it makes it any more legal), not to say that it's something I endorse, though. I, myself, am really struggling with this one.

Two other reasons are region availability and hacking, the latter of which can, and should, be done with an original copy, but the former requires money, hardware, and credentials I just never had.

My point is, there are tons of reasons people can pirate things. Is it ever good? From a legal standpoint, no, it's not. From a moral standpoint, it's subjective and also depends on the purpose for most people. I don't endorse the act but I can't exactly turn my back to what I started, nor can I actually say that it's always bad.
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Old July 21st, 2012 (3:47 PM).
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    I think you're a bit oversimplifying. There are three kinds of pirates:

    1. The person that wants the game but can't afford or/will not pay for it, so pirates it.
    2. The person that wants the game and would buy it if they didn't have the option to pirate.
    3. The person that is intending to buy the game if they enjoy it.
    This, this, this. Great Explanation Toujours. I consider myself the first - I will not pay for most software but I (won't) pirate it. For this reason I do not stop myself from pirating for moral reasons. Instead I do not pirate software much because of this insanely irrational fear I have of being caught (make of that what you will).
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    Old July 28th, 2012 (12:42 PM).
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      I would never have bought Jam with the Band if I couldn't have tried it first.
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      Old July 28th, 2012 (1:02 PM).
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        Gaming wise, I always buy it.
        Music, I only buy artists I really like. (Gaga, Marina & The Diamonds, Lana Del Rey, LIGHTS, Gwen Stefani, No Doubt, etc)
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        Old July 28th, 2012 (2:36 PM).
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        I download everything with the exception of stuff I deem worthy of spending my money on.
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        Old August 25th, 2012 (5:49 PM).
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          I would download free songs that you can't normally buy off itunes or any other site, and games that you can't find in a game store such as snes, GBC etc. However, things that you can buy that recently came out in store or online should be bought legitimately, simply because some of the money goes to the company that made the movie or videogame and worked hard on it.
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          Old September 5th, 2012 (5:17 PM).
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            ^This is my opinion on all of it.

            My argument as to net losses for artists/companies/whatever is that for artists, if they're doing it for money, their completely missing the point of art. My father is an amazing painter and has 4 and a half years of college to show for it. Our house is filled with paintings that he all made. Did he make a dime off of any of it? No. He's is also a metal musician and is part of multiple bands. Do any of those bands make money off the countless hours of effort and thousands of dollars spent on instruments and recording software? Again, not at all.
            As for corporate net losses, I'd rather not get started on how much petty greed they've displayed for their love of money, so I could give less than a crap about letting some billionaire starve.
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            Old September 5th, 2012 (5:48 PM).
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            Maybe if there was like a Fair Trade Agreement for musicians, I would be more than happy to buy music rather than steal it.

            Why? Because I support the musicians, not the corporates who suck that money up. At most, I want to at least support the mastering guys.
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            Old September 18th, 2012 (4:18 PM).
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              I very rarely pirate anything but TV shows nowadays. I pirate a game every once in awhile but abhor piracy towards indie developers. Things like that will destroy the industry and give us a new Call of Duty every year instead of something great.
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              Old September 18th, 2012 (7:00 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by droomph View Post
              Maybe if there was like a Fair Trade Agreement for musicians, I would be more than happy to buy music rather than steal it.

              Why? Because I support the musicians, not the corporates who suck that money up. At most, I want to at least support the mastering guys.
              I thought this too (that the big companies get all the cash), but they have to employ a lot of people to get the job done. The artists are part of a large group of employees that do everything from marketing to cleaning. Yes, they sometimes get the short end of the stick, but they can't get all of the profits, either.

              I always buy my music and games.
              Movies and TV shows are a difficult one - I occasionally download them purely because I'm never going to watch them again (probably something every few months, at most). $20 for two hours of entertainment that I may not enjoy is a big gamble. Plus I'd much rather a format that I can do whatever I want with without re-encoding, etc. I'm not justifying it, but do tend to watch them at the movies when new, which is what really makes or breaks a film. If there was a reasonably-priced way of getting them conveniently, I probably would, as I don't actually support piracy.
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              Old September 18th, 2012 (7:38 PM).
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                I usually only download anime and old games. If I love the anime enough, I'll buy the dvds, but otherwise no. I don't usually consider pirating my stuff bad, because I wouldn't have bought it anyway, I just wanted to see it, and for the stuff that I did like, I bought afterward. I never download newer games, though, always buy for those.
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                Old September 19th, 2012 (10:18 AM).
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                  i do it all the time the rich still get millions and i get my games/movies/music
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                  Old September 19th, 2012 (1:44 PM). Edited September 19th, 2012 by Firox.
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                  Quote:
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                  I think you're a bit oversimplifying. There are three kinds of pirates:

                  1. The person that wants the game but can't afford or/will not pay for it, so pirates it.
                  2. The person that wants the game and would buy it if they didn't have the option to pirate.
                  3. The person that is intending to buy the game if they enjoy it.
                  I fit in with the 3rd option more. Mostly for movies and TV Shows, I'll admit it, I have downloaded shows before, I have deleted them by now. That was until I discovered www.watchcartoononline.com I don't download anymore.

                  I like to sample the movie/tv show just until I saved enough to buy them on VHS or DVD. Music I use YouTube to listen to the music and if I really love the song I'll buy the song at Amazon, or if I like the album I'll purchase the CD.

                  Forgot to mention - I do think that File sharing/pirating is wrong its the same as stealing. For PirateBay and other similar sites I have not visit in years.
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                  Old September 20th, 2012 (9:23 AM).
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                    I pirate just to pirate. I hate the MPAA and RIAA so I download as much as their stuff as possible. Little man companies and small businesses though (esp. apps) I try to purchase to support the developer. I want to support the person who deserves it... not the greedy corporations.

                    I downloaded 106gb of Disney movies to stick it to the MPAA
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                    Old September 29th, 2012 (1:47 PM).
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                      I think that they should just make it legal, but add stuff like advertisements or reduced quality images, so that it is more like a demo than an actual game, but keep all the storylines and stuff intact. Then, if you like the game, you would want to buy it so you could play it in full resolution and no ads.
                      and also they should not release the download until maybe a couple of months or so after the product release.
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                      Old September 29th, 2012 (3:29 PM).
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                        Quote:
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                        I think that they should just make it legal, but add stuff like advertisements or reduced quality images, so that it is more like a demo than an actual game, but keep all the storylines and stuff intact. Then, if you like the game, you would want to buy it so you could play it in full resolution and no ads.
                        and also they should not release the download until maybe a couple of months or so after the product release.
                        Dumbing down the game will make people pirate it, even if it's the same story... :\ That's just not a solution, sadly. Some people will pirate it because they want to try it, some people can't afford it so they pirate, while others just pirate to pirate.
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                        Old October 2nd, 2012 (4:37 PM).
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                          Dumbing down the game will make people pirate it, even if it's the same story... :\ That's just not a solution, sadly. Some people will pirate it because they want to try it, some people can't afford it so they pirate, while others just pirate to pirate.
                          Stupid people. All they acomplish is making things worse.
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                          Old October 8th, 2012 (7:18 PM).
                          LividZephyr LividZephyr is offline
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                            I don't understand why pirating TV shows is a bad thing. I mean, if you can watch it on the web for free, why can't you download it for free? It shouldn't be illegal at all to download something you could see at a scheduled time or can see online. Of course, this applies more to broadcast networks than cable, because you have to pay for cable while you can get ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and CW for no cost except an antenna. They make no money if you buy a Terk antenna, do they?

                            As for music, I've stopped going the route of illegally downloading it. I like going to YouTube to hear the songs on a new album before I make the decision on if I want it or not. There isn't anything wrong with that - you can listen to the song like you would on the radio, then decide if you want to buy. It isn't "piracy" if you're just listening to it.

                            Or watching it, if it's a TV show. I did hear that the broadcast networks scoured YouTube and removed all of the old episodes of their shows to ensure that nobody could get into them. That's just stupid. It's the same as downloading - sure, you may have a copyright, but shouldn't it be where people can view them? Isn't that important for getting new viewers?

                            Basically, I think file sharing is only okay with TV shows. I really need to stop downloading other things that way but I'm broke and can't do much right now. Guess I might have to wait...
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                            Old October 8th, 2012 (7:42 PM).
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                              It really depends on what it is for me. If it's a TV show that you have easy access to on TV or DVD, then I don't. However, if it's an anime (subbed or RAW)that you can only get unless you

                              a) live in Japan
                              b) by for way to much money off eBay
                              c) download illegally

                              Then I would have no other choice than to illegally download it. Same with if it's music. If it's something that's sold at you're local Wal-mart, why steal it? Why not support the musician by buying their music? However, if it's very old music that is hard to find in stores, or, again, only in other countries, you'd have to download it.
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                              Old October 9th, 2012 (9:48 AM).
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                              Quote:
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                              I don't understand why pirating TV shows is a bad thing. I mean, if you can watch it on the web for free, why can't you download it for free? It shouldn't be illegal at all to download something you could see at a scheduled time or can see online. Of course, this applies more to broadcast networks than cable, because you have to pay for cable while you can get ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, and CW for no cost except an antenna. They make no money if you buy a Terk antenna, do they?

                              As for music, I've stopped going the route of illegally downloading it. I like going to YouTube to hear the songs on a new album before I make the decision on if I want it or not. There isn't anything wrong with that - you can listen to the song like you would on the radio, then decide if you want to buy. It isn't "piracy" if you're just listening to it.

                              Or watching it, if it's a TV show. I did hear that the broadcast networks scoured YouTube and removed all of the old episodes of their shows to ensure that nobody could get into them. That's just stupid. It's the same as downloading - sure, you may have a copyright, but shouldn't it be where people can view them? Isn't that important for getting new viewers?

                              Basically, I think file sharing is only okay with TV shows. I really need to stop downloading other things that way but I'm broke and can't do much right now. Guess I might have to wait...
                              Because when you watch it online for free, they have advertisements with it that pay the network when they're viewed. Downloading it doesn't offer a revenue towards the network.
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                              Old October 9th, 2012 (10:10 AM).
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                                Don't buy music blindly. I normally will download an album and if I like it, I'll buy it. Groups I am a fan of already, I'll only download if an album leaks, and still buy it once it's out officially.

                                Games, I tend to only buy... and only buy during Steam sales or when various retailers are having sales. Of course, if it's an out of print game, I'll download it without hesitation.

                                I don't bother downloading many movies, because I flat out don't watch many (and the ones I do watch tend to be a couple years old so they're typically cheaper).

                                I download almost all of the TV shows I watch because they're either foreign or I don't feel like turning the TV on to watch it at a time that's not convenient to me.

                                I would download a car. You have no idea how hard I would download a car.
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                                Old October 9th, 2012 (10:20 AM).
                                LividZephyr LividZephyr is offline
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                                  Quote:
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                                  Because when you watch it online for free, they have advertisements with it that pay the network when they're viewed. Downloading it doesn't offer a revenue towards the network.
                                  That makes sense. Always forget about those ads, and I think my AdBlock gets rid of some of them, even. Of course, there's the big issue with the networks' video players not working, partially because it won't let you pause the ad and it takes two minutes to download completely and go through one half-second at a time. That's why I download. It takes a while, but at least I get to keep it and can watch it offline.

                                  Still, I'm not completely against that kind of piracy. I don't see that it should be illegal. Heck, networks can even offer them for download for $1-3. They probably already do, but not in a desirable format or at a desirable site... there's also Hulu.

                                  I need to break out of this habit. I'm trying to! xD

                                  @Algo - download... a car? How?
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