Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black 2 & White 2.

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Old October 13th, 2012 (11:44 PM).
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Warning: May possibly contain B2W2 spoilers.

If you cycle past the Battle Subway on both B/W and B2W2 you'll notice some lag appears there on both games, implying that they most likely were made at or around the same time. If you also notice, some of the dialogue is shared between both games and it gets me wondering about something. With all the new features and enhancements B2W2 has (PWT - the argument for "Cold Storage" means it could've easily been in another location, Move Tutors, Join Avenue, moving grass in battles, moving an item, and so on), why didn't B/W get any of that? None of the extra features/connectivity things would've made B2W2 any less great if they didn't have them, so why didn't B/W get those features, making B2W2 more "sequels" rather than an expanded third game? Based on story alone and without the extra features that enhanced the games, the two would be more equal and B/W wouldn't be left as the less superior one due to having nothing really to go on. I'm sure certain features weren't developed in a year and a half, so really, they could've put them in B/W too. Discuss your thoughts on this.
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Old October 14th, 2012 (7:06 PM). Edited October 14th, 2012 by Golurks Were Meant to Fly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
moving an item
Do you mean in the bag? Because I thought that could be done by pressing select.

ANYWAY, aside from my nitpicking, on to the OP. XD

I think their reasoning for not including these features was to make BW2 more grand and seem like it's own game. I mean, couldn't they have put in the battle frontier for Ruby and Sapphire? I think (and this is kind of cheap, but it makes sense) that they always hold back a little in terms of making the games to be as great as they're capable of, just so that the third version or sequel they make seems a little greater. I mean, all those little features add up. It's one thing to say, "why couldn't they have moving grass in BW?" but once you include all the other minor details...they suddenly become less minor. And that's what (unfortunately) makes the next game(s) in the region stand out/on their own.

Or perhaps it's just that two years later, Unova suddenly has moving grass in battle, more complex animated sprites, and individual gym music. Ah the wonders of (videogame) nature! XD
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Old October 14th, 2012 (7:26 PM).
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    I think she means the Space Space bag which allows you to put any items there and is for your quick search items as well like potions and revives. At least I use it along with the Y button's selection screen to get easier access to the healing Items I tend to use fairly often.

    Also. Both Junichi Masuda and Mr. Unno (one of the main art directors) both said that they didn't start working on B2W2 until B/W was released.

    The Subway is probably just a Copy/Paste.
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    Old October 15th, 2012 (1:19 AM).
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      Money. They will make more Money with more new features to advertise. Its all about the money these days.
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      Old October 15th, 2012 (2:04 AM).
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      Quote:
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      Money. They will make more Money with more new features to advertise. Its all about the money these days.
      This.

      It wouldn't be smart for the developers to indugle all their ideas into one game because it would leave them with little content to work with on future releases. By releasing new features in some games, and then more in others it allows them to milk the franchise as much as possible.
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      Old October 15th, 2012 (10:23 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Forever View Post
        If you cycle past the Battle Subway on both B/W and B2W2 you'll notice some lag appears there on both games, implying that they most likely were made at or around the same time.
        How does that imply such?
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        Old October 17th, 2012 (7:50 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
        Also. Both Junichi Masuda and Mr. Unno (one of the main art directors) both said that they didn't start working on B2W2 until B/W was released.
        This. In the B2W2 special edition guide, there is an interview included, and I believe it is Masuda who specifically mentions the key feature and that the team did not have enough time to include it in BW.

        As impossible as this sounds, I really do think the new features (with the exception of the keys) were made after the release of BW. Game Freak has been developing high quality games rather quickly lately, which is very impressive. So I don't think it's that BW were "left out," or even that it was a ploy for more money. It was just what happens to all game developers: crunch time got the better of them, and then they worked harder on their next release.
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        Old October 17th, 2012 (12:01 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by GolurkIsDaBomb View Post
          Do you mean in the bag? Because I thought that could be done by pressing select.
          I believe she is referring to the ability to move a held item without bagging it and reattaching to another Pokemon. Mainly applies to the Lucky Egg, at least in my case.

          But to respond to the topic, I think these are just small things that sorta don't get thought of necessarily during the development of B/W. If they were to make a sequel to BW2 I'm sure they'd find even more things to add or change. I don't think they do it solely for the sake of profit.
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          Old October 17th, 2012 (2:12 PM). Edited October 17th, 2012 by Spinosaurus.
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            As impossible as this sounds, I really do think the new features (with the exception of the keys) were made after the release of BW.Game Freak has been developing high quality games rather quickly lately, which is very impressive.So I don't think it's that BW were "left out," or even that it was a ploy for more money. It was just what happens to all game developers: crunch time got the better of them, and then they worked harder on their next release.
            ...wah? High quality games? B/W?
            It's nice if you like the games and all, but calling them high quality is highly inaccurate, given that the RPG mechanics are out-dated and dull (they still have random encounters. That says much.), and the questionable design decisions that surround both games still exist. B/W and B/W2, are by far, the most flawed Pokemon main games to date. While it does have great pacing (it's actually fast) and is a great introduction to the series, it is far from a high quality game.

            Pokemon never was, really. Its strongest point, which is raising and battling with bizarre creatures, is what keeps it going, and it being the first game of its kind made it the million seller it is now. The target audience are kids, who are into that kind of things, and older people who are just long-time fans. It has always been a bad RPG, but it makes up for it by being a damn good and charming collectathon game. I personally feel the charm is slowly fading away though, with the recent changes to design decision and artstyle.
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Curious. View Post
            This.

            It wouldn't be smart for the developers to indugle all their ideas into one game because it would leave them with little content to work with on future releases. By releasing new features in some games, and then more in others it allows them to milk the franchise as much as possible.
            This is all there is to it. Gamefreaks are talented developers, and they can make games that are irrelevant from Pokemon. Drill Dozer is a fine example here, as it was a unique, innovative and very charming game but after it failed to be successful and became obscure they've been milking the Pokemon series, even going as far as putting tons of Pokemon references in their recent games to gain any sort of attention.

            B/W could have had all the features 2 had and more, but the above quote explains it well. You have nice new features, but considering Pokemon is a big media icon, why bother including them in your recent game when you could just release a new one with them and get twice the amount of money. It's a milked franchise, no denying it, but regardless of that it's just business, and a smart decision. Doesn't excuse how lazy B/W and 2 feel, though.
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            Old October 20th, 2012 (5:48 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Forever View Post
              Based on story alone and without the extra features that enhanced the games, the two would be more equal and B/W wouldn't be left as the less superior one due to having nothing really to go on.
              I disagree with the bolded. If anything, the story made BW2 more of a sequel. Seriously, consider the other third games. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum are all games that are basically the exact same as their predecessors minus the bonus features or a slight change in available Pokemon. Their stories were almost exactly the same with a few kinks here and there. However, BW2 had a completely different storyline that stemmed from BW. If I remember correctly (and my memory isn't fading yet), BW did not have Team Plasma wearing pirate outfits, and N was still their king. They don't even occur during the same time, BW2 happening two years after BW. Granted, BW2 does have added features that BW lacked, but those alone do not make BW2 and BW even remotely the same game other than that they're both Pokemon and both are set in the Unova region.

              I wouldn't even say that BW got the short end of the stick, either. BW was a much better game in terms of the story than the other mainstream games in the franchise by having far more interesting characters and a more interesting, relevant plot.

              As for the topic at hand, I don't even think BW was getting shortchanged. You want to know why BW2 got more features? Because they had the time to build on BW and add more things onto it to make it look better. It's not like they held back on BW. That's just bad advertising. "We're going to make this game a little worse than the next one, so the next one will sell more. Everyone thinks like that." BW2 had the same foundation as BW did barring a additions, which were most definitely added given that they had about two years to release the sequels.
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              Old October 20th, 2012 (9:59 PM).
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                I think it's also because since BW were "new" already, it didn't need all those features to still be considered a fresh new approach to the game. Buut by saving those for B2W2, they made the new game seem like it was adding on a whole ton of features and made it seem even "fresher" even if they were made at around the same time.
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                Old October 21st, 2012 (12:12 AM).
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                  Money could be a good point, but I was thinking B/W, like Lapras* said, was new enough. The games used full use of the 3D engine and there was so much new things to implement to Black and White because of the 3D engine like zoomed out and in shots (across the bridge part). It's a whole new region with many new Pokemon, and I'm sure that fact alone is enough to be satisfied about the new games.

                  I feel that extra things like grass and rocks in battle scenes, are just little details that could have been added later like in B2W2! :D
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                  Old October 21st, 2012 (8:46 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Forever View Post
                    Warning: May possibly contain B2W2 spoilers.

                    If you cycle past the Battle Subway on both B/W and B2W2 you'll notice some lag appears there on both games, implying that they most likely were made at or around the same time. If you also notice, some of the dialogue is shared between both games and it gets me wondering about something.


                    >implying that they most likely were made at or around the same time.

                    That doesn't even make sense. 1: Of course the two battle subways were made around the same time, why wouldn't they just copy-paste an older feature into a sequel? Did you expect them to stall development of White 2 so they can go clean up the engine some more and possibly cause desyncing/lag issues with Pokémon Black and White 1 when they have linking capabilities and may desync from it?

                    More importantly, that doesn't imply anything. Official Game Developers don't just delete everything once their game is made, they always have a disassembled build sitting somewhere. Think about how many games have leaked prototypes popping up years after their final release. All major game companies keep a stockpile of old builds for some time, partly so that if they ever DO need to reuse code like the battle Subway, all they have to do is copy the old files, and paste them into the new game. No engine changes, just the same, old code.

                    >Two games that take place in the same generation, same region, with some of the same people

                    In a game with the same region, same people,why WOULDN'T some of the dialogue be the same? Black and White didn't get stuff like Join Avenue, the expanded functionality of the Entralink, the PWT, or support for the other forms of Kyurem because They weren't being made at the same time. Additionally, you'll notice that the Dialogue is also very different in B2/W2 - Namely, NPC's that same thing in the jap versions (Such as Charles), would say something dumbed down in Black and White English, while in Black2 and White2, they would say what they were meant to say. If the games were being developed Simultaneously, why would that happen?

                    What I've surmised from all this is that Pokemon Black and White were developed before Black2 & White2, and the reason those features weren't in Black 1/White1 is simply because they weren't planned at the time, or were planned but they didn't have time to fit them into the games. Pokemon Black2 and White2's development started with Pokemon Black and White's fully developed game, and was built from there, meaning they had more time to implement those missing features. How would I know this? Because that's how Game Development works. They finished they're original product, and didn't touch up the engine of the games to ensure compatibility, and added in things they might not have been able to before. Game Freak has done that numerous times in the past games - Note the version differences in Deoxys, for example:

                    Ruby and Sapphire share forms, and they're the only games that do. They just simply didn't plan to give Deoxys other forms, and they came up with the idea during FR/LG's development. The same logic could be applied to BW vs B2W2.
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                    Old October 27th, 2012 (7:04 PM).
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                      I think this is because 2 is based strongly on 1s scenarios and such .
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                      Old October 27th, 2012 (7:10 PM).
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                        I've actually talked about this in one of the threads.

                        As a cynical sort of person, I'd go out and say that Game Freak excluded all of this stuff that should have been included so Black and White 2 would look just that much better when it released. So taking out features that should have been in the first and add it as a hook to get you to buy the next game.

                        This has been a trend going on since Emerald. Or maybe Crystal, it's been so long since Crystal I can't remember what differences have been made between GS and Crystal. I know a lot of my friends that skipped getting Black and White 1 for the assumption that Grey was getting released so they wouldn't waste money. We all know this trend.
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