Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black 2 & White 2.

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Old November 24th, 2012 (8:19 AM).
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Woo another thread like the other one! So basically, in this thread, B/W are exactly the same but the Pokemon aren't new. They're old. Every single one of them. With no new Pokemon to look forward to in the games, would you still find them as appealing?

- Could've GF pulled this off?
- Would've you enjoyed visiting Unova with a new storyline, region and everything, but with the mascots being two older Pokemon that represent Black and White, and the rest of the PokeDex being older Pokemon?
- Do you think this would've decreased the amount of negative opinions about the games?

Discuss! And please don't copy my questions and answer them in a list (they're to stimulate your thoughts!) as I warned in the previous thread... I will definitely cry if you do that. Give your moderator reason to smile, not cry, when reading the replies. Okay have fun!!!

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Old November 24th, 2012 (8:25 AM).
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    I'm not sure what kind of opinions a move like that would've brought, and I'm sure GF could've done it. However, each Generation brought new Pokemon with it, and breaking that combo would've sucked, IMO. Having to go though a brand new region with Pokemon you're already familiar with with no new faces at all.. That would probably have been a deal-breaker for me.

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    Old November 24th, 2012 (11:05 AM).
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      I might have quite pokemon then, probably because i wouldn't buy bw bw2. With no new pokemon, there would be far less to look forward to, so little to explore, discover... yeah, theres the region and all, but for me, its the pokemon that were the greatest joy to discover.
      And why i would quit? because i would have gen V. i might like VI if it had new pokes, but since cross gen compatibilty has been linear until now, i wouldnt get my awesome gen IV pokes in and would have to start over. and so i would cry, and would quit before that. personally, i think gamefreak would have hit an all time low in sales for BW if they had had no new pokes.
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      Old November 24th, 2012 (12:00 PM).
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      I think the the games still could've worked because I think that the region and storyline was indeed strong enough to satisfy the needs of fans, without the new Pokémon. Obviously the games wouldn't be as good without the new Pokémon, but I think I would've enjoyed the games if they used old Pokémon. As for other fans opinions, I think that it may have made some a lot happier, because then it would be more like the games they have loved before, but I think the majority would've been happier with the new Pokémon.
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      Old November 24th, 2012 (2:06 PM).
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      If Black/White hadn't contained any new Pokemon, it might as well have been added to Gen IV so it could be fully compatible with those games. Sure, we would miss out on some new moves and updated mechanics, but I think a lot of people would be frustrated if you couldn't trade freely between the games, especially when all the Pokemon are the same.

      Granted, I probably would have still enjoyed playing White if there were only the previous Pokemon in game, but I think it brought back a good thing from the originals where the region was only populated by it's indigenous Pokemon, rather than those of other regions (until the post-game, at least).

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      Old November 24th, 2012 (3:22 PM).
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        No new pokemon = not much other than a new world to look at and entertain yourself with. Honestly, I wouldn't buy it, just out of disappointment.

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        Old November 26th, 2012 (1:28 PM).
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        I don't think Game Freak could have pulled it off. A large part of the fun of pokemon is using the different pokemon, and having new pokemon to look forward to using. A game with only old pokemon would have crippled the series in my opinion. Sure BW2 didn't introduce any new pokemon, but there were the new 156 or so that BW introduced to play around with. Also, the storyline wouldn't have made sense, (as for the replacement reshiram/zekrom) and starting off with old starters would have been a bore. I know I would not have enjoyed this. I love using new pokemon; using ones I've used before makes the games unenjoyable for me. Also, BW was all about giving a jumpstart to the series, which I doubt could have been done very effectively with old pokemon. I do think this region with all old pokemon would appeal to many older and nostalgic fans, but I only see it really appealing to Western fans. The Japanese, I doubt would enjoy a "rehash" of the old regions, and they ARE the main customer. And I also feel that many would become aggravated at having NO new pokes whatsoever, like I would. Finally, this couldn't have worked because having only old mons really closes off the series. It makes it somewhat unapproachable to new players, and makes it incredibly hard to move forward with new pokes in the next generation, as it would have cemented the OLD POKEMON RULE philosophy.
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        Old November 29th, 2012 (1:29 PM). Edited November 29th, 2012 by Deokishisu.
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          Honestly? I think Black would've been much more tolerable for me had that been the case.

          The reason Black almost killed the Pokemon series for me was the fact that I had no way to catch some of my favorite Pokemon and raise them, as there's no backwards compatibility 'til the non-existent postgame and I didn't have Wi-fi. So I was stuck going through Unova with a starter I only barely tolerated and picked because its final form didn't look and feel as stupid as the others (Serperior, breaking my tradition since '98 to choose the water starter on my first playthrough of a new generation), catching a bunch of Pokemon that I didn't really like (there are a scant handful that I actually enjoy this generation), and raising them to fight a bunch of other Pokemon that I didn't like either.

          And all this would've been fine if Game Freak didn't decide to slack on designing these newbies AND cut us off so we were stuck with them.

          I thought the storyline could carry its own weight, save the disconnect with Team Plasma and the face-heel turn of Ghetsis in the end, and would've been much more happy had all the Pokemon available had been replaced with their older counterparts.

          In fact, Black 2 is the only reason I'm still with Pokemon. I bought it on a limb and was pleasantly surprised that they fixed the numerous gripes I had with how they did Unova. I can happily say that the only Unova Pokemon in my party during my Black 2 playthrough was Serperior. And that was mostly because I don't like ditching starters.

          Would GF have been able to pull it off? I think so. They could've done something where the new Pokemon are programmed in already but unavailable, then release them through the Dream World/Colosseum-esque sidegame/Dream Radar/whatever. That would maybe hype up the new Pokemon a bit and give B/W a reason to be 5th gen. Then just keep Black and White 2 the same.

          I think doing this would decrease the negative opinions that are going out now, but I think it'd introduce a whole bunch of new negative feedback. Game Freak would listen to that and the next Gen of this hypothetical universe would end up being just as bad as Black/White was. Black and White 2 is what it is because Game Freak heard the cries of its fanbase and fixed what was wrong.
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          Old November 29th, 2012 (2:04 PM).
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          I don't think I would have bought Black or White if there were no new Pokemon. New Pokemon is always a staple for new generations cos it helps make money.

          Also, like Golurk said the new Pokemon are there to be used, it gives the games a "fresh look" however some people, although they didn't like being able to use their old favorites until the post-game, thought the new Pokemon looked silly, especially the starters. I actually grew onto the new Pokemon quite quickly, and that was thanks to me doing research on them on Bulbapedia. There weren't many Unova Pokemon I particularly hated, other than the Trubbish line.

          If Unova had a Pokedex containing only old Pokemon, I would not have enjoyed it at all.
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          Old November 29th, 2012 (2:37 PM).
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          It would be wierd and it would only work with an amazing storyline and if Pokemon from many regions were availible. I still think three new starters would be needed.
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          Old November 29th, 2012 (4:26 PM).
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          I don't think the games would have been successful had there been no new Pokemon. There are no Pokemon that could replace Reshiram and Zekrom (and much less Kyurem), so the plot would have been completely different. The pre-Gen 5 Pokemon have already seen their share of the limelight, and there really isn't much else that can be done with their storylines; if anything, the Pokemon would have to have more detail added to them, thus changing what is already established about them, which in turn would probably be even worse-received than the BW games we got.

          Honestly, the only complaints I've seen about BW are: that it had little to no post-game, and that people didn't like the new Pokemon and couldn't use old ones. The post game has nothing to do with what Pokemon are available; and not liking the new Pokemon and being dependent only on old ones will certainly turn into a gen1er argument that I'd rather not get into. So had BW not introduced new Pokemon, I'm certain that it would not have been successful; one of BW's best traits is its plot, and that plot could not exist completely if new Pokemon were not introduced.

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          Old December 1st, 2012 (6:57 AM).
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            No new Pokemon? I don't know, but I think it would have been all right if they had maybe thrown in a few older ones. But a new game without new Pokemon seems kind of counter-productive.
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            Old December 14th, 2012 (4:33 PM).
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            I could deal with it IF they break the 8 gyms and elite 4 cycle as well. Then it would be ok. But if it was the same old pokemon and same story, then I may have waited to get it.
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            Old December 20th, 2012 (1:12 PM).
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              Well, first, just to get the snarky bit out of my head - I would presume that if B/W hadn't introduced any new pokemon, a good number of the people who have spent all this time complaining about the new pokemon would've just spent all the same time complaining about the lack of new pokemon.

              That said - for me - if there hadn't been any new pokemon, it probably wouldn't have been worth even bothering to play the games. I have no particular attachment to pokemon from other dexes, and I've always been sort of disappointed when old pokemon show up in a new dex. Don't get me wrong - I like a lot of the older pokemon and in fact virtually all of my all-time favorites are from past dexes. It's just that I've already played the games with them in them, and if I want to use those pokemon again, I can play those games again. New pokemon are what interest me the most in the games - not the story or the region or the battles or any of that - the new pokemon. That's the biggest reason I play the games - to see and get to know them. The whole point, to me, is to catch something, then to use it. Find out what it's good at or not good at, see what kind of moves it learns, find out what it evolves into and what that's good at or not good at and what kind of moves it learns. That's what keeps me interested, and as soon as I've learned all of that for a new generation, my interest starts to drop. I still keep playing them at that point, since after I get to know what all the new pokemon are, I want to breed and train and assemble the best possible team. That conveniently works out about in time for the third (or third and fourth now) games, and the extra post-E4 content they tend to have. But once I've done that, I'm about done with the game, unless I get the urge to completely restart it and do a nuzlocke or a mono or something of that sort. But for the most part, as soon as the new pokemon become as familiar to me as the old ones, I start looking forward to the next game, and the next set of unknown pokemon. So when a new game comes out and I play it, only to discover that many of the pokemon in the new dex are the exact same things I've already seen, battled, caught, raised, bred, trained and ultimately boxed, I'm sort of disappointed. But when I first started playing White and discovered that ALL of the pokemon in the regional dex were new - that I wasn't going to see one single pokemon I'd seen before until after the E4 - I was thrilled. That's exactly what I've always wanted anyway. If, on the other hand, there had been NO new pokemon, there just wouldn't have been much reason for me to play at all, when I could just go back and use the same pokemon in the old games if that was what I wanted to do.

              'Course, that's just my opinion....
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              Old December 20th, 2012 (1:21 PM).
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                It's hard to say because I think part of B/W's appeal was its entirely new start - new region, new professor, new trainers, new rivals, and more importantly new Pokemon. It seemed disconnected from the previous four regions (well, it is notably farther away than them) and it's really interesting as far as plot goes.

                I think more people would have griped that it's more of the same if they didn't have new Pokemon.
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                Old December 21st, 2012 (4:45 AM).
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                  I would have no choice but to deal with it because after all, I do have to get all of the Pokemon games since I am a huge Pokemon fan. If this were the case, it would not be considered a Generation V game to me in my opinion. I actually think it would be a pretty cool idea to travel another region with the same old 493 Pokemon, but we kind of done that already in FireRed and LeafGreen when we went to the Sevii Islands (even though there are 9 islands). I think the overall stauts for these two games would stay the same because I have so many people telling me that they hate the fifth generation and would enjoy it more if they did not exist, however, there are some people that won't get the game because of not having any new Pokemon in it.


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