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Old December 8th, 2012 (2:55 PM).
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I thought this was a more serious topic than what would be accepted in OVP, but if not, then go ahead and move it off Live/Leafu.

Anyway, I thought of this topic today. Two teens at the high school I went to just died in a car crash last night, both of which were in my sister's grade. She knew the girl, who we'll call B, but she didn't know the guy. Oddly enough though, the other night, I was waiting on my sister at Books A Million to take her home after the parade. When we left, we walked past a group of girls and my sister said, "I don't like that girl we just passed. She's always rude to me." And at the time, I didn't think too hard on it. Well, that was B, who died last night. So basically...one of my sister's bullies died. And we've been talking about it today, and she's not torn over it, and in turn, neither am I. Now, earlier this year a friend of her's died and she was very upset over it, naturally. I too was upset along with her. However, B died and it's just...she doesn't know how to feel, which made me think, how do any of us feel after this happens? I mean, of course she's not excited or happy, but it's still a strange feeling. She's not happy about how people are saying that she was caring and kind, when she of all people knows that wasn't the case. Which you know, if you were bullied by someone and someone else said they were sweet and kind, you wouldn't agree with it. But when they're dead, it's like...are you dishonoring the dead by thinking ill of them? It's all just strange, isn't it?

So...how are you supposed to feel when your bully dies unexpectedly? How would you feel? I know this is asking more of an OVP type of question, but it's a serious topic, so yeah. I hope I didn't word that last paragraph to make my sister or I sound malicious and uncaring or anything. It's hard to talk about this kind of thing without being disrespectful, because you're supposed to respect the dead, but when they had no respect for you when they were here, how are you gonna respect them whether they're here or not?

I hope this topic or the way I worded it doesn't offend anyone or make them mad...like I said, it's hard to really explain this or make it sound good. idk. Discuss.

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Old December 8th, 2012 (3:41 PM).
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    Good. It's not dishonorable to think ill of the dead if they punished you to begin with. Giving them remorse is like giving beer to a drunk. It's a recurring problem, and had she lived, she would've continued bullying your sister.

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    Old December 8th, 2012 (4:00 PM).
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    When I was younger, I did have one older girl somewhat bully me. Oddly enough we were originally friends.

    If she died, I would have a tough time being genuinely sad. How does one mourn for someone who has physically attacked them? :T

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    Old December 8th, 2012 (4:07 PM).
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      I have a hard time caring over death in general, unless I'm emotionally invested in an individual or item.

      I think its just normal.

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      Old December 8th, 2012 (4:07 PM). Edited December 8th, 2012 by droomph.
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      Don't worry too much. Things happen, and you're in control only of your part of the scene. There's no real way you have to feel, and if people pressure you to feel some way, if you want to feel that way, go feel that way. Otherwise, nobody's forcing you to not be happy inside, or sad.

      edit: But, even so, don't go running around the streets yelling "OMG (S)HE'S DEAD YAY!!!!!!!! CONFETTI!!!" because that's just rude. Pay your respects.

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      Old December 8th, 2012 (4:11 PM).
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      I used to think about this a lot when I was younger, in primary school in fact, about whether or not my bullies would care if I died, what their reaction would be, etc.

      I think that if they had died I would not be a dick about it, and try and be as respectful as possible, because no amount of teenage angst and stupid bullying is deserving of death. Though I haven't been bullied too hard, so maybe I'm not an expert? I dunno, I just think that wishing death on someone or celebrating the death of someone is in ill taste, especially when the worst of their "crimes" are bullying.

      But I guess it depends on the victim and the severity of the bullying.

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      Old December 8th, 2012 (4:16 PM).
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      I can't ever imagine feeling alright about someone dying. I try to think of people in terms of what they are outside of what they are to me; sure, they bullied me. But they were someone's son or daughter, someone else's friend, someone else's current or future potential partner, and I don't know what else. Their interaction with me is only a small part of who they are and, although I'd only remember my experience with them as being the one that bullied me and so I'd have negative memories of them, they'd have interacted and would have interacted in the future with others in such different and positive ways. No matter the nature nor the severity of the bullying, I was just one single person whose life they changed in any way. I can't feel anything but sad for their death.

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      Old December 8th, 2012 (4:17 PM).
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      I also want to point out that situations like these really highlight that we shouldn't be rude to others. It would suck to die and have been a huge bully in life (this girl wasn't rude to everyone, but there are some people like that) and then no one really care or grieve. One might argue that they don't care what people think unless they're important to them, but I personally would never want to be remembered as a bad person. Maybe that's just me. Just thought I'd toss that in though.

      Edit: off topic but leafy son we match way too much lmao

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      Old December 8th, 2012 (4:27 PM).
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        There's nothing wrong with being honest with yourself about your own feelings. I for one don't know how I'd feel; it'd depend much on the severity and frequency of the bullying--there's a difference between an occasional irritant and a frequent abuser. If you don't feel remorse at someone's passing as a result of emotional injuries you've sustained from them, you're not dishonoring them. The only dishonor in this case was brought upon the bully by him/herself by being cruel during life. One should be judged on one's actions, not on one's feelings.

        One important thing to remember, though, is that there are presumably family and friends who were close to the bully who are guiltless in this matter and deserve to mourn in peace. Though it may bother your sister that people are speaking well of the bully, it's better to avoid speaking ill of the bully to anyone who may be truly hurt to hear it for now.

        Another important thing that this brings to mind is that many bullies go through life without realizing that they are bullies, often because there were some people to whom they were genuinely kind. This is why it's crucial for people to reflect on their own actions, and make amends for instances in which they themselves were acting uncharitably.

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        Old December 8th, 2012 (4:37 PM).
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          Back in school i used to have a bully and well... I think I wouldn't care at all if he died. Maybe I'd think about what I've learnt from that but meh, in the end it's just death. I don't see it as something that bad.

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          Old December 9th, 2012 (6:57 AM).
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            If someone who relentlessly pissed me off on a daily basis just randomly died, quite frankly, I'd be celebrating because I don't have to deal with their bullcrap anymore.

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            Old December 9th, 2012 (7:13 AM).
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            I guess I would be..... happy but sometimes, I feel sorry for the bully him/herself but after all, the person who physically/mentally hurts you is dead, so I would feel kinda happy but I would still feel a little bumped or sad :/

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            Old December 9th, 2012 (8:45 AM).
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            I think it's understandable to have mixed feelings, or just feel indifferent when someone who was cruel to you dies. Our feelings aren't controlled by rational thought and we can't step outside of ourselves completely.

            People are going to mourn the dead and say nice things about them because that helps them mourn. But you should be able to be honest and say what's on your mind. After all, you have to mourn in some respect, too. Maybe mourn isn't the right word. You have to address this, perhaps not in public, but you do need to talk to someone about it where you can speak honestly of your feelings.

            So if you can talk to someone about it honestly, with someone who isn't mourning for the bully and won't be offended by what you say, you'll have a chance to get things out in the open. After that you might have an easier time when you go back into the public space where people are only saying nice things about them. And if you do feel like you have to address the fact that they weren't nice to you in life then at least you'll have had some time to do that diplomatically.

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            Old December 9th, 2012 (9:10 AM).
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              It's hard to say, a lot of kids at my high school have died but I either didn't know them or only had a couple classes with them and never really talked.

              However, I wouldn't feel any remorse or anything. Like your sister, it'd probably just feel strange knowing they aren't here anymore, but it wouldn't be sadness or happiness, just that 'wow, they're dead' feeling.

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              Old December 9th, 2012 (9:36 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Digimon Kaiser View Post
              If someone who relentlessly pissed me off on a daily basis just randomly died, quite frankly, I'd be celebrating because I don't have to deal with their bullcrap anymore.

              Sick.

              I got bullied all the way through High School and it's had a huge effect on me as a person. They've had such a huge effect on my life that it's impossible to just ignore it, but I'm not as sick as the guy I quoted, I'm not going to celebrate while their family is beyond upset. So yes I would be pretty sad about it, as I would anyone else.

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              Old December 9th, 2012 (9:48 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Chaval View Post
              Back in school i used to have a bully and well... I think I wouldn't care at all if he died. Maybe I'd think about what I've learnt from that but meh, in the end it's just death. I don't see it as something that bad.
              I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you find death a small deal? Surely you're not complacent with the loss of life?

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              Old December 9th, 2012 (11:11 AM).
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                I was bullied alot during Secondary school, for many reasons, The games I play, How I act, Family I come from, General apperence. Lots more reasons, I always wished that bad things would happen to those who bullied me. But quite frankly if they did die, I'd consider it my fault for wishing such bad things upon them :/

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                Old December 9th, 2012 (11:12 AM).
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                  I'll be sort of happy since that my numerous amount of bullies die, but at the same time, it's sad.

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                  Old December 9th, 2012 (11:50 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Spherical Ice View Post
                    I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you find death a small deal? Surely you're not complacent with the loss of life?

                    What about it? Death comes anyways and it is a part of life itself.

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                    Old December 9th, 2012 (1:34 PM).
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                      I don't think you "should" feel anything than what you naturally do feel. Death is often about mourning their life WITH you. In a way, we cry because we are selfish and we want our loved ones still here with us. Therefore, it makes sense that you wouldn't really feel "anything" for the death of a person who didn't impact you in your life positively.. and I think that's okay. It doesn't mean they were a "worthless" person, or any sort of bad person because I am sure there are others that would be more impacted by the loss, but I don't think it's natural to try and force sadness or anything. If you have to force it, it's just a mask anyways, so.. just feel how you feel and let it be. I think anyone would probably want to offer their condolences to those who are hurt by the passing, and hopefully whoever it was that died is at least resting in peace, but if you feel nothing, you can't help those feelings. It's why they couple "love and loss" together.

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                      Old December 9th, 2012 (2:42 PM).
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                      You don't have to feel nothing but what you feel, and there's nothing wrong with any feeling you feel. You can't control your feelings.

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                      Old December 9th, 2012 (3:38 PM).
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                        The truth is an ugly thing isn't it?

                        If my bully died (I don't have a bully), and if it was someone who was bullying me for most of my life, I'd be...glad they couldn't bully me anymore. I'd feel indifferent to their death. They never had anything to do with me other than make me feel miserable every day. Maybe I'd also have a feeling of delight. "They deserve it".
                        Although that'd be morally corrupt and completely ignorant, at the time it would be difficult to hide that unhealthy happiness.
                        I'd learn the fragility of life if someone who has always been bigger and stronger than me suddenly just went bye bye forever.

                        Ugh, that's a really tough question.

                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Sydian View Post
                        But when they're dead, it's like...are you dishonoring the dead by thinking ill of them? It's all just strange, isn't it?
                        It's subjective. You can say that it is okay to dishonour Stalin or Hitler etc because they killed millions of innocent people with no motive. Others will argue against that. Every life is precious, but every day people talk badly of dead people.

                        If you feel it's okay to be not necessarily happy but glad/apathetic, then yeah, go for it.

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                        Old December 9th, 2012 (3:56 PM).
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                          Bully or not, its still a human being that has died. I'd feel bad for them even if they knocked me over the head. Seeing a life be ended is a sad thing, especially if I knew the person. Most people would be like, "I didn't like the person, so I don't care" or something like that, but I still think even a death like that matters.

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                          Old December 12th, 2012 (7:03 AM).
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                            Old December 13th, 2012 (9:03 AM).
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                              If someone harms you it's 100% human to wish bad fate to befall upon them.

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