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[Gen V] Monotype Water Team

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  #1    
Old December 16th, 2012 (7:51 PM). Edited December 17th, 2012 by Mononoke Hime.
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Mononoke Hime Mononoke Hime is offline
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    Rain Dance performer and initial damage lead:

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Timid ~ Pressure

    • Rain Dance
    • Calm Mind
    • Shadow Ball
    • Hidden Power Fire

    252 spa / 4 sdp / 252 spe


    Special sweeper:

    Kingdra @ Choice Specs
    Timid ~ Swift Swim

    • Dragon Dance
    • Yawn
    • Flash Cannon
    • Dragon Pulse

    6 hp / 252 spa / 252 spe


    Physical sweeper:

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Adamant ~ Moxie

    • Dragon Dance
    • Waterfall
    • Bounce
    • Earthquake

    176 hp / 128 atk / 204 spe


    Ultimate supporter:

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Bold ~ Hydration

    • Baton Pass
    • Acid Armor
    • Wish
    • Scald

    244 hp / 136 def / 128 spe


    Dangerous beauty:

    Milotic @ Leftovers
    Bold ~ Cute Charm

    • Scald
    • Recover
    • Ice Beam
    • Toxic

    128 hp / 252 def / 128 spa


    Indestructible dragon killer tank:

    Lapras @ Leftovers
    Adamant ~ Hydration

    • Rest
    • SleepTalk
    • Curse
    • Avalanche

    148 atk / 108 def / 252 spd

    PS: All my team members are females, excepting the sweepers.
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      #2    
    Old December 17th, 2012 (8:59 AM).
    PlatinumDude's Avatar
    PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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    IMO, I'd rather have Kingdra do the Rain Dance set-up. And I do see a lot of problems with it:
    -Flash Cannon doesn't provide noteworthy coverage; Kingdra's Water and Dragon STABs have good enough coverage already.
    -Status moves other than Trick, Spore or the like + Choice items = no-no. This makes Kingdra a sitting duck. Go with this set instead:
    -Rain Dance
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam/Surf
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 40 HP/252 SAtk/216 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
    Ability: Swift Swim

    The lack of STAB really, really really hurts on Suicune:
    -Calm Mind
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Hidden Power (Electric/Fire)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Life Orb

    or
    -Calm Mind
    -Scald/Surf
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
    Item: Leftovers

    or
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf/Scald
    -Ice Beam/Hidden Power (Fire)
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 HP/172 SAtk/84 Spe
    Item: Leftovers

    But then again, Keldeo is a better option over Suicune thanks to its better Speed and offensive presence:
    -Surf
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Scarf

    or
    -Calm Mind
    -Hydro Pump/Surf
    -Secret Sword
    -Hidden Power (Ghost/Ice)/Substitute
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers

    or
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Hidden Power (Ghost/Electric)
    -Icy Wind/Surf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Specs

    Gyarados' current set is better off using a max Attack/max Speed spread; the bulky spread is better off for a Dragon Dance Gyarados that uses Taunt.

    Cute Charm seems tempting, but infatuation is easy to switch out of. That, and the status itself is unreliable. Marvel Scale is still Milotic's preferred ability. Milotic's current set isn't meant to attack, but to provide support. The preferred spread is 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef.

    Since Rain Dance (without Politoed) doesn't last long, you're going to need a backup Rain Dance user; Vaporeon can do that while still providing Wish. While Acid Armor + Baton Pass is tempting, it's better off doing that in dedicated Baton Pass teams, and this team isn't one:
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Scald
    -Ice Beam/Toxic/Roar/Rain Dance
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb

    or
    -Rest
    -Scald
    -Wish/Roar/Rain Dance
    -Toxic/Ice Beam/Rain Dance
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration

    Lapras, while interesting, doesn't make much of an impact in OU. Cloyster can make a more threatening offensive presence with Shell Smash:
    -Shell Smash
    -Icicle Spear
    -Rock Blast
    -Hydro Pump/Razor Shell
    Nature: Naive/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: White Herb/Focus Sash/Lum Berry/Life Orb
    Ability: Skill Link
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      #3    
    Old December 17th, 2012 (5:59 PM).
    Mononoke Hime's Avatar
    Mononoke Hime Mononoke Hime is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      IMO, I'd rather have Kingdra do the Rain Dance set-up. And I do see a lot of problems with it:
      -Flash Cannon doesn't provide noteworthy coverage; Kingdra's Water and Dragon STABs have good enough coverage already.
      -Status moves other than Trick, Spore or the like + Choice items = no-no. This makes Kingdra a sitting duck. Go with this set instead:
      -Rain Dance
      -Hydro Pump/Surf
      -Draco Meteor
      -Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam/Surf
      Nature: Modest
      EVs: 40 HP/252 SAtk/216 Spe
      Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
      Ability: Swift Swim
      Yeah I know my kingdra isn't so good, I was in doubt about what moveset was the best for it. He will be the Rain Dancer now :)

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      The lack of STAB really, really really hurts on Suicune:
      {...}
      -Calm Mind
      -Scald/Surf
      -Rest
      -Sleep Talk
      Nature: Bold
      EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
      Item: Leftovers
      You're right, Suicune seems to be better off with this set. Thanks~

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      Gyarados' current set is better off using a max Attack/max Speed spread; the bulky spread is better off for a Dragon Dance Gyarados that uses Taunt.
      I don't really know wich set is better for gyarados and my team as a whole, because I know gyarados is a fragile beast.
      Which set do you think is better?


      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      Cute Charm seems tempting, but infatuation is easy to switch out of. That, and the status itself is unreliable. Marvel Scale is still Milotic's preferred ability. Milotic's current set isn't meant to attack, but to provide support. The preferred spread is 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef.
      Thank you for the advise, I'll be using it. :)

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
      Since Rain Dance (without Politoed) doesn't last long, you're going to need a backup Rain Dance user; Vaporeon can do that while still providing Wish. While Acid Armor + Baton Pass is tempting, it's better off doing that in dedicated Baton Pass teams, and this team isn't one:
      -Wish
      -Protect
      -Scald
      -Ice Beam/Toxic/Roar/Rain Dance
      Nature: Bold
      EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
      Item: Leftovers
      Ability: Water Absorb
      Vaporeon moveset is really something so complicated to me xD Vappy is a versatile pokemon, so I got kinda lost when choosing a set.

      I think I'll be running this set:
      • Wish
      • Rain Dance
      • Ice Beam
      • Toxic
      Nature: Bold
      EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
      Item: Leftovers
      Ability: Water Absorb

      What do you think?
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        #4    
      Old December 17th, 2012 (6:21 PM).
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      PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Mononoke Hime View Post
      Yeah I know my kingdra isn't so good, I was in doubt about what moveset was the best for it. He will be the Rain Dancer now


      You're right, Suicune seems to be better off with this set. Thanks~


      I don't really know wich set is better for gyarados and my team as a whole, because I know gyarados is a fragile beast.
      Which set do you think is better?



      Thank you for the advise, I'll be using it.


      Vaporeon moveset is really something so complicated to me xD Vappy is a versatile pokemon, so I got kinda lost when choosing a set.

      I think I'll be running this set:
      • Wish
      • Rain Dance
      • Ice Beam
      • Toxic
      Nature: Bold
      EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spe
      Item: Leftovers
      Ability: Water Absorb

      What do you think?
      Lack of STAB hurts here. Scald or Surf needs to be somewhere on there.

      And I just found out something bulky that can help set up Rain Dance over Vaporeon: Slowbro. While it doesn't hit as hard as Vaporeon does, it has access to reliable recovery in Slack Off and Regenerator:
      -Rain Dance
      -Slack Off
      -Scald/Surf
      -Psyshock
      Nature: Bold
      EVs: 248 HP/244 Def/16 SAtk
      Item: Leftovers
      Ability: Regenerator

      (you don't have to use this if you don't want to)

      Gyarados isn't that frail; its HP is decent and Intimidate compensates for its lower Defense in comparison to its high Special Defense. It has the same bulk as Milotic, to put into perspective.
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        #5    
      Old December 18th, 2012 (9:24 AM).
      WinterKirby's Avatar
      WinterKirby WinterKirby is offline
         
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        So... a Monotype Water team that doesn't have DrizzleToed or Keldeo? I know this has to be an OU team because of Gyarados.

        First of all, I'd say Politoed over Suicune. Because from the looks of it, Suicune is there mainly to use Rain Dance.

        Politoed @ Leftovers
        Trait: Drizzle
        EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
        Bold Nature
        - Scald
        - Perish Song
        - Protect
        - Toxic

        One of Politoed's more basic sets. Toxic and Perish Song lets you deal with Stallers and Baton Passers. Scald lets you fish for burns, and Protect helps you predict what your opponent's going to do. And Drizzle because rain.

        Keldeo should probably go over Lapras. Lapras isn't all that great, with a SR weakness and no recoveries outside of Rest and Water Absorb. Most fighting types can outspeed and OHKO Lapras with ease.

        Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
        Trait: Justified
        EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
        Modest Nature
        - Secret Sword
        - Surf
        - Hidden Power [Grass/Fire/Electric]
        - Icy Wind

        Secret Sword and Surf are fairly powerful STABs, and SS lets you deal with pink blobs. Icy Wind can usually OHKO most Dragons, and HP for extra coverage.
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          #6    
        Old December 18th, 2012 (12:14 PM).
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        PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by WinterKirby View Post
        So... a Monotype Water team that doesn't have DrizzleToed or Keldeo? I know this has to be an OU team because of Gyarados.

        First of all, I'd say Politoed over Suicune. Because from the looks of it, Suicune is there mainly to use Rain Dance.

        Politoed @ Leftovers
        Trait: Drizzle
        EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
        Bold Nature
        - Scald
        - Perish Song
        - Protect
        - Toxic

        One of Politoed's more basic sets. Toxic and Perish Song lets you deal with Stallers and Baton Passers. Scald lets you fish for burns, and Protect helps you predict what your opponent's going to do. And Drizzle because rain.

        Keldeo should probably go over Lapras. Lapras isn't all that great, with a SR weakness and no recoveries outside of Rest and Water Absorb. Most fighting types can outspeed and OHKO Lapras with ease.

        Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
        Trait: Justified
        EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
        Modest Nature
        - Secret Sword
        - Surf
        - Hidden Power [Grass/Fire/Electric]
        - Icy Wind

        Secret Sword and Surf are fairly powerful STABs, and SS lets you deal with pink blobs. Icy Wind can usually OHKO most Dragons, and HP for extra coverage.
        Just a slight problem: Drizzle Politoed and Swift Swim are banned together in the same team. This is why I suggested that Kingdra be the Rain Dance setter.
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          #7    
        Old December 18th, 2012 (2:14 PM).
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        WinterKirby WinterKirby is offline
           
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          Oh, that's right. I don't use Kingdra that often so it never comes up for me.

          Well, alternatively, you could swap his ability for Sniper.
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            #8    
          Old December 18th, 2012 (2:44 PM).
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          PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is offline
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by WinterKirby View Post
          Oh, that's right. I don't use Kingdra that often so it never comes up for me.

          Well, alternatively, you could swap his ability for Sniper.
          True, but Kingdra having Swift Swim allows it to check opposing Rain teams. Not all Rain teams need Politoed; if one wants to use Swift Swim in rain, they'll have to make do with manual Rain Dance.
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            #9    
          Old December 19th, 2012 (6:19 PM).
          Mononoke Hime's Avatar
          Mononoke Hime Mononoke Hime is offline
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            I can use keldeo over kingdra, but suicune has to stay 'cos I love it. ;;
            It's really the first time I'm playing regularly in the competitive mode stuff, so I don't know much.

            So, I'm open minded and I can change two of my team members: gyarados and kingdra.

            And thank you two for all the advises and suggestions. :)
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