Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black 2 & White 2.

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  #1    
Old February 12th, 2013 (5:52 AM).
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While Black and White still returned the Hidden Machines(HMs) they were not all needed to complete the actual storyline. The only one needed to get through the main story was CUT and it only had to be used once. HMs were needed post game for legends and such, but were not at all necessary to beat the main storyline. What did you think of this? Did it make you happy that you didn't have to waste a spot for a HM slave? Did you actually like using an HM slave and wish you had one? Did you have one anyways and if so who? Discuss.....
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Old February 12th, 2013 (8:01 AM).
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    It was good not to have an H.M slave that know every H.M move to clear obstacles in routes.As you said we only really needed Cut which i taught to my Patrat which i had planned to box anyways.
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    Old February 12th, 2013 (10:51 AM).
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      Well, since we got another mediocre rodent on the first route that could learn the worst of the HM moves, it didn't matter much even on my first playthrough, when I had an HM slave just because I was accustomed to having one. I slapped Cut on a Patrat, then later put Cut and Strength on a Watchog, and drug them around with me when I needed to. But by my second playthrough, I had started to figure out that we really don't need HM slaves any more anyway, though, to me at least, not so much for the reason you mention.

      Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that I've read other people pointing it out, I wouldn't have known that you didn't need HM moves (beyond that one Cut) to finish the main line of the game. I just wander the world, and when I see something that needs to be cut or pushed or surfed over or waterfalled up or whatever, I do it. Even if it's not necessary there's usually good stuff to be found so I don't see any reason why I wouldn't. And if I do all of that at the first opportunity I get, then when I go back to the same place later, I can be sure that I've already done it.

      As I just mentioned on your reusable TM thread, even aside from whether or not one needs HM moves to complete the game, HM slaves are less necessary now than they were before simply because of reusable TMs. As soon as the Move Deleter is available (and particularly as soon as you can learn Fly), it becomes possible to slap whatever HM move you need on whoever you have available for just as long as you need it, then to just Fly to Driftveil, get it removed and replace it with a TM move. I find I do that especially with Strength. There was a time when being deep in a cave and finding a pushable rock and not having an HM slave with me only meant that I had to escape and get an HM slave and do it all over again. Now I just open the bag and click on the Strength HM and find out who can learn it and give it to whoever can afford it best - generally someone with a mostly unused TM move. Then when I get out, all I have to do is fly to Driftveil and forget Strength and relearn the TM and that's that.

      Speaking of Fly though, I did continue to use an HM slave for Fly longer than for the rest, just because it's one of the most consistently useful HMs but it's still a pretty poor battle move. Most of the time I put it on a Ducklett/Swanna (along with Surf, though that's at least a decent move, in part so that I always had it with me and in part because Swanna actually makes good use of it). In my latest though - B2 - I've been using Fly much the same way as the rest of the HMs - just putting it on whatever can learn it and can afford to tote it around for a while, then forgetting it and learning something better in its place later.

      All that said, I do sort of miss HM slaves though. I've had some great HM slaves over the years who are at least as much, and in a lot of ways even more a part of any "team" I've had than the best of the battlers, just because they were always there, day in and day out, doing their part.
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      Old February 12th, 2013 (8:33 PM).
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      I actually loved not having many HM obstacles in this game, which was a first for me since I hated having to dump one of my team for an HM Slave or use the Move Deleter all the time. I only used Cut on a Patrat early in-game and boxed it afterwards after going through the Dreamyard.

      Surf and Fly are still handy though for getting around. I'd be happy for future generations to have less and less need for HM slaves.
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      Old February 12th, 2013 (8:48 PM).
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        It was a relief not having an HM slave actually. I taught it to Patrat and then boxed him afterwards lol. Even if I would of had an HM slave, it wouldn't of been an HM slave. All but Cut are useful moves in battle if used properly. Cut is just a waste of a move.
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        Old February 12th, 2013 (8:59 PM).
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        I like having less HM obstacles because I don't need to use HM slave all the time, even though I still use Fly and Surf HMs to my Pokemon.
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        Old February 12th, 2013 (9:11 PM).
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          I have a HM slave vaporion for black two
          it knows Surf, Dive, and waterfall XD
          It has a **** ton of health + water absorb so it makes a pretty good wall. And against fire and/or ground types it doesn't do too terribly.

          I usually keep the HM's on just in case but I rarely use them besides the required puzzles.
          Which I wish there were more of, just not 'required' to beat the game.

          On a side note, I have a team of all eeveelutions and they're all level 100 =-=
          so yeah....
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          Old February 13th, 2013 (11:26 AM).
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            totally loved that you didn't need a HM slave to complete a storyline,Cut was probably just put there cause they couldn't have found a better thing to put in your way. i still got a late game slave for surfing,exploring the Abyssal ruins and waterfall. Also got Fly on a Braviary but that's not really slaving since he can still be used in online battles
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            Old February 13th, 2013 (1:11 PM).
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            I loved the lack of HMs being necessary in gen V. It meant I could have a full team of six, and didn't have to deal with the annoying action of using HMs! Plus, I always found it stupid that a small rock or a tiny tree prevented you from moving onward in the game. I mean COME ON. And also, why hadn't anyone else cut it down - wouldn't it have been in their way?!?

            Ugh I hate Hms.
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            Old February 13th, 2013 (1:30 PM).
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              Unfortunately it limited how well the map could have been explored. At least Surf should have been required, imo.

              Though it was nice that I didn't need a Pokemon devoted entirely to HMs to navigate the main storyline. Still better than HGSS, 8 HMs lol... e_e
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              Old February 14th, 2013 (12:41 AM).
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              I still used HM Slave anyways... :D
              Somehow I'm used to having one Pokémon for HMs... sometimes HMs are needed for cool items so it doesn't bother me =)
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              Old February 14th, 2013 (6:14 AM).
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              It pleased me a lot I didn't have to waste HM slaves, other than Fly which generally was useless...

              But definitely HMs playing less of a role than they did before was a nice change from the boring need for a HM slave and allowed us to get more creative with our teams!

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                #13    
              Old February 14th, 2013 (8:12 AM).
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                Like a lot of post above me I was very happy I did not need a HM slave this time as It freed up a party slot in my party.
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                Old February 15th, 2013 (9:26 AM).
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                  I had an HM slave out of habit in my first playthrough because I thought for sure I'd need one. But I'm very glad I can play the game through without one. Allows me to actually plan a proper party to battle the gyms with instead of "Alright I have 5 slots for my good pokemon and one slot for my HMs"
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                  Old February 15th, 2013 (11:26 AM).
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                    I'm one of those people who does all the optional stuff in Pokemon games, so I still use HM slaves.
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                    Old February 15th, 2013 (12:39 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by AzaleaLightning View Post
                      Unfortunately it limited how well the map could have been explored. At least Surf should have been required, imo.

                      Though it was nice that I didn't need a Pokemon devoted entirely to HMs to navigate the main storyline. Still better than HGSS, 8 HMs lol... e_e
                      My biggest gripe with HGSS is how you need HMs to fight Red. I think you need Rock Climb and Surf IIRC.

                      In general, you only need HMs as a way to stop the player's progression into areas he's not supposed to go yet. But, since Unova is fairly linear, they solved it with story-driven blockades. I liked it.
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                      Old February 15th, 2013 (2:59 PM).
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                        This is the one thing I actually think was done perfectly in Black and White. It as certainly an improvement from DPPt, where you needed two HM slaves for Mt. Coronet. Now that was awful.
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                        Old February 15th, 2013 (11:01 PM).
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                        One of the best parts of Black and White, in my mind, was no definitive need for an HM slave (or two). Sure, you might miss out on a few items and hidden areas along the way, but it wasn't something that you couldn't go back and explore later on.

                        The only Pokemon I really kept on me that knew any HMs was my Ducklett/Swanna, and that's just because Surf and Fly are two HMs that you can actually make good use of even if you don't have to.
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                        Old February 16th, 2013 (12:18 AM).
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                        I was happy that I really didn't need to use HMs much. Though I still thought Pokemon in my team Fly and Surf cause they're still strong moves. Plus they're useful later on. But still I now hardly use HMs which is good.
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