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  #1    
Old February 19th, 2013 (12:19 PM).
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A Republican state legislator in Missouri has proposed legislation that would make it a felony for lawmakers to introduce legislation to restrict Second Amendment rights in the state.

Legislation introduced Monday by state Rep. Mike Leara (R-St. Louis) would make state legislators guilty of a Class D felony if they introduce legislation "that further restricts an individual's right to bear arms." Leara said that the bill is needed because he sees a growing number of his colleagues looking to take away gun rights from the state's residents.

“We seem to be having a lot of people willing to further restrict our constitutional rights and take our rights," Leara told The Huffington Post. "It is a push-back to the people who don’t believe in our constitutional rights. There have to be consequences to removing our constitutional rights.”

Leara said recent legislation which would ban assault weapons and high-capacity gun magazines from being manufactured or carried in Missouri pushed him to introduce his bill. Under the assault weapons ban introduced by state Rep. Rory Ellinger (D-University City), Missouri residents who own assault weapons and high-capacity magazines would have 90 days to remove them from Missouri after the bill takes effect.

Ellinger's bill was referred to the state House General Laws Committee on Monday, but no hearing date has been scheduled by the committee.

“That went too far," Leara said of Ellinger's bill. "It was a confiscation bill without compensation.”

The Missouri state Legislature website lists 24 firearms bills currently pending in the state House of Representatives. These include bills requiring guns to be sold by licensed dealers; allowing teachers to carry guns; lowering the age for a concealed carry permit from 21 to 19; and allowing state employees to keep guns in their cars when they are parked in state-owned parking garages.

According to the website of the Missouri Sentencing Advisory Commission, those guilty of a class D felony can be sentenced to up to four years in jail and can receive a probation sentence of between one and five years. The text of Leara's legislation has not been posted on the state website.

Leara said that he does not think his bill will face problems in terms of its constitutionality under the First Amendment or a provision in the state constitution giving legislators immunity from arrest for official actions.

“If we attempted to take away people’s constitutional rights outside the legislative process or civil rights, there would be consequences," Leara said. "I believe there have to be consequences for this. I value our Second Amendment rights as importantly as civil rights.”

Leara's legislation is the latest in a series of pro-Second Amendment bills being introduced in state legislatures around the country. They include a series of bills to prohibit the enforcement of federal gun bans in states, a bill in Mississippi to create a nullification commission, and a bill in Kansas that would prohibit doctors from asking about gun ownership.

State Rep. Stephen Webber (D-Columbia) told HuffPost that there "are a ton of bad bills filed every year" but said that the legislature should have discussions about them anyway. The bill will likely be stopped by the legislative process or courts, he said. Leara should pursue defeating bills in the legislature, rather than focusing on felony legislation, Webber added.

Webber also noted that he has concerns over the content of the bill.

“I find it ironic that people are willing to sacrifice the First Amendment at the alter of the Second," he said. “You don’t make it a crime to bring up an idea.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/missouri-gun-bill_n_2717360.html

Yes, lets just start getting rid of that pesky first amendment - Afterall, why good has it done, in the entire history of our nation?

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  #2    
Old February 19th, 2013 (1:27 PM).
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    Well, it's Republicans. They think they still live in mid-19th century. So it's to be expected.

    No offense to fellow Republican members of this forum.
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    Old February 19th, 2013 (1:45 PM).
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    Ladies and gentleman the likely next political party to hold the position of PUSA! If there is a god please let it be they never get voted into power till the sane ones take over.
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    Old February 19th, 2013 (3:03 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
      Well, it's Republicans. They think they still live in mid-19th century. So it's to be expected.
      Well that was pretty obnoxious. I am kind of offended by your statement. I support the Republicans, mainly because I've become disillusioned with the Democrats. I identify with the center-right. The people you're thinking of are the far-right. Both are represented in the party, though I have to admit that the far-right is more vocal. It's kind of like how people wrongly associate the term feminist with bra burners, misandrists, and people who want to spell woman as "womyn", even though only a minority of feminists are like that.

      Personally, I think there is too much anti-Republican stuff in the News section. There's good and bad Republicans, good and bad Democrats, and good and bad people from those minor parties that never get a lot of votes.
        #5    
      Old February 19th, 2013 (3:12 PM). Edited February 20th, 2013 by FreakyLocz14.
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      There's nothing wrong with this. Every lawmaker. takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
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      Old February 19th, 2013 (3:28 PM).
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      I think this is going a little overboard personally. While I understand the need to defend the constitution, I dont think this should be a law.
        #7    
      Old February 19th, 2013 (3:39 PM). Edited February 19th, 2013 by Mr. X.
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      It's... kinda effective?
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      Republicans like to say that the second amendment is what made all the others possiable - It wasn't. It was the people, speaking out against something that led to amendments. And it was the people speaking out against something, instead of shooting things up or marching on Washington armed to the teeth, that has led to all the others. Well, minus the amendment that repealed prohibition.

      I'm not really surprised by this move - Politicians don't care about protecting the Constitution any more. All they care about is keeping their job and the money they get from big corporations.
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      Old February 19th, 2013 (4:53 PM).
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        #9    
      Old February 19th, 2013 (7:21 PM). Edited February 19th, 2013 by droomph.
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      Yeah.
      Quote:
      "are a ton of bad bills filed every year"
      Out of one good thing comes a million bad things. You have to weed out the bad, and take out the good. If you just want to get rid of the bad ones, you'll have to get rid of the good ones also.

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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
      There's nothing wrong with this. Every lawmakers takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
      People like that up there are the people I want to get away from.

      There's just something so wrong with views like that - no issue is black-and-white; one must provide a counterargument in order to prove a view right or wrong!!

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
      I'm not really surprised by this move - Politicians don't care about protecting the Constitution any more. All they care about is keeping their job and the money they get from big corporations.
      Bad idea.

      And why do lobbyists pay the Senators? New bills. Oh, no more bills? No pay for you!! :) Bad move.

      And why do people get bribes? So they can benefit from the change to their advantage! No more change? No pay for you!! :) Bad move…

      And why do people get paid? Because they work! And what is the Senate's and House's main purpose? Pass new laws! No more laws? No more work! No more work? No pay for you!! :\ Bad move, huh…

      This is one of the few arguments that really shouldn't be arguments, since this is saying that there should be no more arguments. And why shouldn't there? That's why we live! To strive for consequence and improvement!
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      Old February 19th, 2013 (7:42 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
      There's nothing wrong with this. Every lawmakers takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
      So then it should also be a felony to restrict abortion & reproductive rights as well. Which would be great, as that means every GOP statehouse in the country would be composed of felons.
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      Old February 19th, 2013 (7:48 PM).
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        Just so you guy's know it's not gonna get passed, so there's no need to get worked up on it. If anything we need to get rid of some of the laws we have now and replace them with more important ones. But, the government just wants the power to control us no matter the consequence. IDGAF what happens, cuz we can't stop half the stuff the do anyways. I really hate politics in general so I probably wont be back. Just stating my opinion and going on my merry way. Hate politics for obvious reasons. If you disagree oh well, I don't care. If you agree, cool that's good for you but honestly I don't care.
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          #12    
        Old February 19th, 2013 (8:42 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
        There's nothing wrong with this. Every lawmakers takes an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
        So... should prohibition be brought back then?
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        Old February 19th, 2013 (8:48 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
        So... should prohibition be brought back then?
        And not only such, should prohibition be brought back down, and then all the amendments taken away?

        Let's not go back in time…
          #14    
        Old February 20th, 2013 (3:12 AM).
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        Quote:
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        So then it should also be a felony to restrict abortion & reproductive rights as well. Which would be great, as that means every GOP statehouse in the country would be composed of felons.
        There is no federal constitutional right to have an abortion. Abortion rights are a creation of judicial rulings, state constitutional amendments, and state statutes. Furthermore, no GOP statehouse has proposed banning abortion completely. They've only proposed reasonable regulations that are perfectly allowable. See Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) 505 U.S. 833.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
        So... should prohibition be brought back then?
        Prohibition is unconstitutional.
          #15    
        Old February 20th, 2013 (11:35 AM).
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        From a strictly legal standpoint I believe it is the courts' duty to decide which laws are unconstitutional. According to those fancy old documents it is not a power that lawmakers are supposed to have. But I'm not a lawmaker so maybe I'm wrong about this.
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        Old February 20th, 2013 (12:12 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
        From a strictly legal standpoint I believe it is the courts' duty to decide which laws are unconstitutional. According to those fancy old documents it is not a power that lawmakers are supposed to have. But I'm not a lawmaker so maybe I'm wrong about this.
        Nope you are right. An effective democratic system is broken into three parts

        Legislative - Making Laws (ie. Senate or Parliament or whatever the hell which ever place has)

        Administrative - Enacting the Law (harder to explain but this encompasses the President/Prime Minister, Police etc...)

        Judiciary - Which is the courts who decide on things such as the repercussions for breaking a law but also on the legality of a law itself.

        That may not be 100% accurate I haven't studied politics in a long time.

        ANYWAY - It is important that a country's constitution can be altered and updated in order for the law to match the times. A bill should not encroach on this, most country's constitutions (and most other laws/rights really) are behind the times as it is without bills being passed that further restrict the evolution of these laws. I'm not American and I don't have huge knowledge of your politics so it may be wrong for me to criticise, but can someone please explain to me how on Earth it is a good idea to restrict the development of the political/legal system of your country all for the sake of protecting the right to bare arms? A right that has no place in the world any more, especially when it is clearly causing more harm than good ESPECIALLY in the US.


        Edit: Okay I just realised this is only about the state level, my bad. But most of what I said still applies really.
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          #17    
        Old February 20th, 2013 (1:05 PM). Edited February 20th, 2013 by Atomic Pirate.
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          Yeah, sorry, but there's no good reason to have "Republican" in the title. Honestly, this idea really is more of a "big government" idea than a "small government" idea. Yeah, I know, Republicans can be stupid, but Democrats have their fair share of stupidity.

          Both parties want the same fundamental thing - Complete power and control. Same goal, different methods of achieving said goal.
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            #18    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (1:21 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Elgyem View Post
          Yeah, sorry, but there's no good reason to have "Republican" in the title. Honestly, this idea really is more of a "big government" idea than a "small government" idea. Yeah, I know, Republicans can be stupid, but Democrats have their fair share of stupidity.

          Both parties want the same fundamental thing - Complete power and control. Same goal, different methods of achieving said goal.
          Indeed. That's why I'm referring to these as "stupid politician" threads rather than Republican stories now XD Someone could just easily as post a bunch of stories from The Daily Beast or similar (rather than Huffington Post and such in this case) that paint the Democrats in a bad light for the same effect. ...just no one seems to do that here for some reason.

          Stupid politicians shouldn't cause anyone to paint either party or like-voters with the same brush.
            #19    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (1:26 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Elgyem View Post
          Yeah, sorry, but there's no good reason to have "Republican" in the title. Yeah, I know, Republicans can be stupid, but Democrats have their fair share of stupidity.

          Please show me all the Democrats making shocking comments about rape and women's healthcare. Please show me the oodles of Democrats lining up to oppose basic, fundamental social programs to lift minorities and other disproportionately disadvantaged groups out of poverty. Show me all the Democrats saying that women who are raped show be forced to carry the rapist's child. Show me all the Democrats in Congress channeling near Joe McCarthy levels of paranoia, racism, and hate in routine cabinet confirmation hearings. Show me all the Democratic or left-leaning judges that overturned the golden standard of Bi-Partisan campaign finance reform, or ones that gut funding for Planned Parenthood in economically disadvantaged areas of the country. Show me the radical fundamentalist Democratic Cabinet & administration that twisted and outright falsified intelligence in order to create two wars, killing thousands upon thousands in the process, all while ramping up paranoia at home and circumventing personal freedoms in order to combat an enemy that never existed.

          Some are more stupid than others.
            #20    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (2:17 PM). Edited February 20th, 2013 by TRIFORCE89.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
          Show me all the Democrats saying that women who are raped show be forced to carry the rapist's child.
          Don't know about shocking comments, but there are Democrats who are against abortion. Three of them right now in the Senate, four in the House, and over 100 across various state and local offices.

          Both sides are stupid. One my favourite out-of-context sound-bites from the last campaign was "the good news is our emissions are way down because of the recession" from Claire McCaskill (who also thankfully beat Todd Akin in that race)
            #21    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (3:16 PM).
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          It's... kinda effective?
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
          Prohibition is unconstitutional.
          Thats what amendments are though - Changes to the constution that would otherwise be unconstitutional.

          Prohibition was legal when the constution was amended to allow for it. It was made illegal when that amendment was repealed.
            #22    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (3:22 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
          Don't know about shocking comments, but there are Democrats who are against abortion. Three of them right now in the Senate, four in the House, and over 100 across various state and local offices.

          Both sides are stupid. One my favourite out-of-context sound-bites from the last campaign was "the good news is our emissions are way down because of the recession" from Claire McCaskill (who also thankfully beat Todd Akin in that race)
          This:

          Quote:
          Show me all the Democrats saying that women who are raped should be forced to carry the rapist's child.
          [The point of reference]

          Is totally different from this:

          Quote:
          Don't know about shocking comments, but there are Democrats who are against abortion.
            #23    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (3:41 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Livewire View Post
          This:

          Is totally different from this:
          Not really. Are you against the position or just someone voicing the position?

          If one of those Democrats believes that abortion shouldn't ever be an option, even in the case of rape - which is what I was responding to, then what's the difference? It only counts if you verbalize it?
            #24    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (3:45 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
          Not really. Are you against the position or just someone voicing the position?

          If one of those Democrats believes that abortion shouldn't ever be an option, even in the case of rape - which is what I was responding to, then what's the difference? It only counts if you verbalize it?
          You can be against abortion for a multitude of reasons, I suppose. Some arguments against are more valid than others. Saying that if a woman is raped & gets pregnant, she should be forced to carry the baby because it is God's intention is vastly different and is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. That is the rationale used by Rick Santorum, Todd Akin, Richard Mourdoch, etc.
            #25    
          Old February 20th, 2013 (9:17 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by lollygag View Post
            Well that was pretty obnoxious. I am kind of offended by your statement. I support the Republicans, mainly because I've become disillusioned with the Democrats. I identify with the center-right. The people you're thinking of are the far-right. Both are represented in the party, though I have to admit that the far-right is more vocal. It's kind of like how people wrongly associate the term feminist with bra burners, misandrists, and people who want to spell woman as "womyn", even though only a minority of feminists are like that.

            Personally, I think there is too much anti-Republican stuff in the News section. There's good and bad Republicans, good and bad Democrats, and good and bad people from those minor parties that never get a lot of votes.
            I think the title of the thread is much more offensive than what I said. Anyone who hears about a guy who wants to pass a bill that forbids creating new laws is going to say the guy is stupid, irrespective of political identity. (and the thread title is misleading)

            I personally believe there are no good guys in politics. I do believe, however, that there are bad guys. In my view most of them happen to be right-wing. Also note that there's no true far-left in the USA. Democrats are center at the most, maybe very mild leftists, and everything else is right-wing in varying degrees. Americans killed their left-wing parties in the fifties.
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