Pokémon Essentials All questions and discussion about Pokémon Essentials, the Pokémon game kit for RPG Maker XP, go in here. Also contains links to the latest downloads and the Essentials Wiki.

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  #26    
Old February 27th, 2013 (6:39 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maruno View Post
    You're a brave man. Making the scripts communicate whether Tri-Attack will poison, burn or paralyse the opponent (for example) would be quite a task - there are so many randomness-based effects that would need to be standardised between the two players.
    Tri-Attack actually freezes, burns, or paralyzes. Though you do bring up a good point.

    I think once a basic online is in play, it mainly will just be syncing the psuedo-random numbers to make everything work.

    If there's anything I actually can do to help with Essentials' having proper online functionality, I'd love to... But it's mostly a scripting thing as far as I can tell, and when network or internet starts getting involved, I lack even basic scripting knowledge.
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      #27    
    Old February 28th, 2013 (4:15 AM). Edited February 28th, 2013 by zingzags.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by RawrJoey View Post
      With all due respect, this uses RMX-OS. It can be done.

      Edit: Should also mention, it uses Essentials 11.
      What he said was you have to make it compatible with the newer version of essentials, so that means if Maruno ever decided to use that system he would have to put it in the main version of essentials.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
      Something like the GTS (which I assume more people would be interested in) would require a globally established connection. So a dedicated server or something which will allow all games to connect to a centralised "station", rather than just a connection between two machines. The battle system is different though, since it only considers two players. But if we had some global communication with that too, you could have things like player tournaments. It depends what kind of interaction you're trying to have. I think a global one would be better, as that way you'd have a master database which would handle everything automatically, rather than users having to manually establish a connection.
      You must also consider that your might have a hacker or two in these games. There are those rare exceptions of people who know how to packet edit, since what I have been reading from some of these posts they want The front-end, and back-end fully blown server like WoW or something. But as I was saying, since it is possible to manipulate the packet being sent from a client to the server for lets say the GTS system, you might want to add security features as well.

      For those who do not know what I am talking about, it is possible for a hacker to find how pokemon are being sent or added from the server, so what they can do is that once they find the packet, they can manipulate it to there needs. So lets say I want to pull up a pikachu from the db one time, the hacker records the packet and when the hacker wants to do it a second time, they can change it to what ever pokemon they want. They can also change the stats and etc.
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        #28    
      Old February 28th, 2013 (5:21 AM). Edited February 28th, 2013 by Luka S.J..
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by zingzags View Post
        For those who do not know what I am talking about, it is possible for a hacker to find how pokemon are being sent or added from the server, so what they can do is that once they find the packet, they can manipulate it to there needs. So lets say I want to pull up a pikachu from the db one time, the hacker records the packet and when the hacker wants to do it a second time, they can change it to what ever pokemon they want. They can also change the stats and etc.
        What would be the point of that? I mean the point of hacking the transferred packets. If some "hackers" already know what they are doing, and want to edit the game, they can simply do it by decompiling the RGSSAD file, and edit the project itself. There is no point in adding in extra security measures, if the game itself can be opened and edited anyway. For the online security to make sense, the RMXP project itself first needs to be locked so it cannot be decompiled with readily available tools.

        EDIT: I was once toying around with the idea of creating a PokeSav for Essentials. That wouldn't be complicated to do at all. So with respect to the hacking of obtaining "illegal" Pokemon, you can easily do it by external means (editing the game itself, or editing the save file).

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Maruno View Post
        You're a brave man. Making the scripts communicate whether Tri-Attack will poison, burn or paralyse the opponent (for example) would be quite a task - there are so many randomness-based effects that would need to be standardised between the two players.

        Hmm, perhaps setting the RNG seed of both players to the same value would help? Theoretically that would make the battle at both ends play out identically given the same inputs, and all you'd need to transmit is the information of which action is taken each round.

        Okay, you're not so brave. :D It actually sounds manageable now.
        I was thinking along the lines of: The player who handed out the battle request would be considered the "host player". The two players select their moves, and so the information about both the moves gets sent to the "host player", and the entire outcome of that round gets calculated and decided locally in the "host player's" game. The game then simply sends the results of the round to the opposing player, and the game visually represents what is going on. Having it localised at one end, rather than putting the pieces together at both ends, could eliminate possible syncing errors.
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          #29    
        Old February 28th, 2013 (6:56 AM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
          I was thinking along the lines of: The player who handed out the battle request would be considered the "host player". The two players select their moves, and so the information about both the moves gets sent to the "host player", and the entire outcome of that round gets calculated and decided locally in the "host player's" game. The game then simply sends the results of the round to the opposing player, and the game visually represents what is going on. Having it localised at one end, rather than putting the pieces together at both ends, could eliminate possible syncing errors.
          I thought about that at first, but battles would take a long time (playing out each round for the host first then for the opponent, rather than simultaneously, plus the unavoidable thinking time). There'd also potentially be a lot of information to transfer per round (e.g. order of attacks, Tri-Attack's effect, number of hits in a multi-hit move, whether Focus Band and other items/abilities work, how much damage is dealt by an attack, etc.). Basically, everything that uses a random number, plus probably some other things too.

          I figured that, since using the same RNG seed means you get the same random numbers, battles wouldn't desync if you did that. At least, that's how I understand it would work. The lottery mini-game works on the same principle (setting a seed depending on the day so the lucky number is always the same in a given day).

          It would be more secure to have the battle worked out by a host, but I don't think there'd be any risk in skimping on that in favour of convenience (faster, less information to transmit, etc.). I can't think of anything else that would cause desync.
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            #30    
          Old February 28th, 2013 (1:33 PM).
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            Why Essentials don't have a trade system like the PSP DS starter kit? Viewing the system of PSP DS, it's mostly formed by codes and txt files, no online connection at all.
            It would be too hard to create it for Essentials? Would be a great addiction. :D

            Sadly, I like PSP DS only because of this feature, but it's in French, and it's HARD to translate it. D:
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              #31    
            Old February 28th, 2013 (1:45 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by LHT View Post
              Why Essentials don't have a trade system like the PSP DS starter kit? Viewing the system of PSP DS, it's mostly formed by codes and txt files, no online connection at all.
              It would be too hard to create it for Essentials? Would be a great addiction. :D

              Sadly, I like PSP DS only because of this feature, but it's in French, and it's HARD to translate it. D:
              You like PSP DS just because of one feature instead of a starter kit that is more complete? Seems legit. It wouldn't be hard at all to code in, just it's not an essential item that affects game play.
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                #32    
              Old February 28th, 2013 (3:46 PM).
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                Quote:
                You like PSP DS just because of one feature instead of a starter kit that is more complete? Seems legit. It wouldn't be hard at all to code in, just it's not an essential item that affects game play.
                Sadly, yes.
                An actual game that I'm working have this feature, and combined with 'downloads in-game', built a social environment between players of the fangame, and I wanted to see this expanded between other games, because Essentials have more users.
                Sadly, PSP DS is hard to use, and seeing that this feature is not to hard to code in like you said, why no one made it yet?
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                  #33    
                Old February 28th, 2013 (3:55 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by LHT View Post
                  Sadly, yes.
                  An actual game that I'm working have this feature, and combined with 'downloads in-game', built a social environment between players of the fangame, and I wanted to see this expanded between other games, because Essentials have more users.
                  Sadly, PSP DS is hard to use, and seeing that this feature is not to hard to code in like you said, why no one made it yet?
                  If this feature is not hard to code in, by all means do it. One game using Essentials had an "offline" trade/battle system - Pokemon Raptor. It used .txt files for the transfer of data, and trade confirmations. We are trying to avoid that, and create a system that would do everything automatically for you. Having online connectivity, on a global server, removes this need for manual connections/transfers and possible screw-ups.

                  EDIT:
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Maruno View Post
                  It would be more secure to have the battle worked out by a host, but I don't think there'd be any risk in skimping on that in favour of convenience (faster, less information to transmit, etc.). I can't think of anything else that would cause desync.
                  By host you mean a localised game, or an online host?
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                    #34    
                  Old February 28th, 2013 (5:58 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                    By host you mean a localised game, or an online host?
                    I meant it in whatever sense you meant it. The host player's game does all the calculations and sends the results to the opponent's game. It was an extension of my previous paragraphs, not a new idea.
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                      #35    
                    Old March 1st, 2013 (1:49 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                      That one person working on the Online Kit is my close, personal friend from school. He shared the project with me, and at one point I was even contributing to it, so I know exactly how the kit works, what it can and cannot do. The link was posted on this site, and the kit in general hasn't been continued for a few years now. I think it's pretty safe to assume that I currently know more about PE: Online than you. So, unless you have extensive knowledge of both kits (Online and regular) and RGSS coding, your remark isn't constructive/helpful at all. So for future references, think twice before posting please.
                      Hey poco, I am not talking about Pokemon Essentials Online, I'm talking about Markz88 PokeMMO starter kit. If you are really insane and to think that Markz88 has been working on his starter kit for a few years you need a serious checkup. You honestly should "think twice" before posting seeing you didn't even know who and/or what I was talking about in any way what so ever.

                      On the bright side though, he's working on a Trading system and [possible] PVP system too! Can't wait for the release of it.
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                        #36    
                      Old March 1st, 2013 (2:16 PM).
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Jtspyder View Post
                        Hey poco, I am not talking about Pokemon Essentials Online, I'm talking about Markz88 PokeMMO starter kit. If you are really insane and to think that Markz88 has been working on his starter kit for a few years you need a serious checkup. You honestly should "think twice" before posting seeing you didn't even know who and/or what I was talking about in any way what so ever.

                        On the bright side though, he's working on a Trading system and [possible] PVP system too! Can't wait for the release of it.
                        So you knew there were multiple projects which could be called an "online version", yet you didn't actually say which one you were talking about? There's no call for your hostility in response to a misunderstanding which you caused.

                        I should point out that you said the guy is "working on" the only two good features (trading and PvP battles). That means he hasn't actually done them yet, so you can't claim that someone's done them or that they're easy. All you can say is that someone is trying to make them. You haven't even said how long he's been working on it, either.

                        As mentioned earlier in this thread (by me), being able to see other players walk around the map (an MMO feature) is pointless and useless, and Essentials does not want that feature. All we're talking about is PvP battles and trading.
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                          #37    
                        Old March 1st, 2013 (3:15 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Jtspyder View Post
                          Hey poco, I am not talking about Pokemon Essentials Online, I'm talking about Markz88 PokeMMO starter kit. If you are really insane and to think that Markz88 has been working on his starter kit for a few years you need a serious checkup. You honestly should "think twice" before posting seeing you didn't even know who and/or what I was talking about in any way what so ever.
                          I'm sorry, you mentioned Online Pokemon Essentials, so I assumed you were talking about PE: Online, not PokeMMO kit. I'm also aware of Markz88's kit, hosted on that Italian Pokemakers forum. Been there too. But as it was previously discussed, we are not interested in any MMO functionality, and are still debating on whether to have the type of connectivity those kind of kits offer. I apologize for my previous attack, I got the wrong impression.

                          Anyway, Maruno, I just remembered. Old Essentials came with a Server.zip and a whole lot of instructions on setting it up for using online trading. What happened to that?
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                            #38    
                          Old March 1st, 2013 (3:53 PM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                            Anyway, Maruno, I just remembered. Old Essentials came with a Server.zip and a whole lot of instructions on setting it up for using online trading. What happened to that?
                            The last version of Essentials (which I have) to include that is 7th January 2010. Poccil removed it between then and the 3rd April 2010 version.

                            I'm currently re-uploading it (the old download of it expired). Check the wiki's Downloads page (at the bottom) in a few minutes.
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                              #39    
                            Old March 1st, 2013 (4:14 PM).
                            Jtspyder Jtspyder is offline
                               
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                              I'm sorry, you mentioned Online Pokemon Essentials, so I assumed you were talking about PE: Online, not PokeMMO kit. I'm also aware of Markz88's kit, hosted on that Italian Pokemakers forum. Been there too. But as it was previously discussed, we are not interested in any MMO functionality, and are still debating on whether to have the type of connectivity those kind of kits offer. I apologize for my previous attack, I got the wrong impression.

                              Anyway, Maruno, I just remembered. Old Essentials came with a Server.zip and a whole lot of instructions on setting it up for using online trading. What happened to that?

                              No need to apologies. :U: You've been around way longer then I have.
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                                #40    
                              Old March 1st, 2013 (4:37 PM).
                              p.claydon p.claydon is offline
                                 
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                                i know that you guys are tying to avoid the whole text file system but couldnt that be included while an online version gets developed? also i do not see anything wrong with mmo in general although i do agree it doesnt go by current pokemon mainstream games but afterall there limited by handheld devices and were limited by the pc and rpgmaker xp
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                                  #41    
                                Old March 2nd, 2013 (1:37 PM).
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                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                                  Something like the GTS (which I assume more people would be interested in) would require a globally established connection. So a dedicated server or something which will allow all games to connect to a centralised "station", rather than just a connection between two machines. The battle system is different though, since it only considers two players. But if we had some global communication with that too, you could have things like player tournaments. It depends what kind of interaction you're trying to have. I think a global one would be better, as that way you'd have a master database which would handle everything automatically, rather than users having to manually establish a connection.
                                  Like I said, the GTS requires a server, but normal battles and trades won't require. A lobby server for battles/trades like Pokémon Net/Shoddybattle or, at least, random battles will be nice, but a 24/7 server today isn't easy to found enough to deserves it, so, beside rare cases, no one will use it.

                                  Isn't hard to copy/paste ip address if you can read text files, so isn't hard to combine a central message board/chat for a game. Maybe I am wrong, but a socket connection is more quick/easy to use.

                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
                                  What would be the point of that? I mean the point of hacking the transferred packets. If some "hackers" already know what they are doing, and want to edit the game, they can simply do it by decompiling the RGSSAD file, and edit the project itself. There is no point in adding in extra security measures, if the game itself can be opened and edited anyway. For the online security to make sense, the RMXP project itself first needs to be locked so it cannot be decompiled with readily available tools.

                                  EDIT: I was once toying around with the idea of creating a PokeSav for Essentials. That wouldn't be complicated to do at all. So with respect to the hacking of obtaining "illegal" Pokemon, you can easily do it by external means (editing the game itself, or editing the save file).
                                  Using external patches there already strong encryptions. There also ways to hamper the savefile modification.

                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by LHT View Post
                                  Sadly, yes.
                                  An actual game that I'm working have this feature, and combined with 'downloads in-game', built a social environment between players of the fangame, and I wanted to see this expanded between other games, because Essentials have more users.
                                  Sadly, PSP DS is hard to use, and seeing that this feature is not to hard to code in like you said, why no one made it yet?
                                  Like I said before:

                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by FL . View Post
                                  The main problem is the lack of support of Essentials project. Besides Maruno and rares exceptions, nobody helps, aside for bug reports.
                                  If I was interested in online features, probably we would have, at least, a trade system today.


                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by p.claydon View Post
                                  i know that you guys are tying to avoid the whole text file system but couldnt that be included while an online version gets developed? also i do not see anything wrong with mmo in general although i do agree it doesnt go by current pokemon mainstream games but afterall there limited by handheld devices and were limited by the pc and rpgmaker xp
                                  I agree with you. I wish to see MMO games, but, right now simple battles/trades goes first. Making a chat is very easy if someone have established connection.
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                                    #42    
                                  Old March 2nd, 2013 (3:11 PM).
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                                    Quote:
                                    Originally Posted by FL . View Post
                                    Like I said, the GTS requires a server, but normal battles and trades won't require. A lobby server for battles/trades like Pokémon Net/Shoddybattle or, at least, random battles will be nice, but a 24/7 server today isn't easy to found enough to deserves it, so, beside rare cases, no one will use it.

                                    Isn't hard to copy/paste ip address if you can read text files, so isn't hard to combine a central message board/chat for a game. Maybe I am wrong, but a socket connection is more quick/easy to use.
                                    I agree with you! The Kit is there to make fan-games so it is unnecessary and pointless if the developer has to use a server. You cant earn money with fan-games so it will be impossible to cover the costs. IMO a socket connection using hamachi or something similar makes much more sense.
                                    Why? Well for what do you need online features in a pokemon game? To battle and trade right? And how long does a battle take at most? 10 or 20 min? I think for such a short connection between two people there is no need to connect yourself to a server. You guys said yourself that you don't want MMO features but that all people who want to battle or trade online have to connect to one server is an MMO feature as well. Just saying.
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