Sixth Generation The Kalos region awaits! Explore the first 3D Pokémon region while putting a stop to Team Flare. Then, revisit the Hoenn region with Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire!

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  #76    
Old February 7th, 2013 (10:49 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
    The problem is that the GBA could play GB games, but couldn't do anything else with them
    I know . The part you quoted was more a "what-if" scenario I used to illustrate my point: if they could make Gen 2 -> Gen 3 transfers, they would have.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
    The main problem is the calculation of EVs. Up to GSC, Pokémon gained stat exp on all stats, so they could max out all stats. From RS onwards, they could only max out two stats. If you converted data using a very strict guideline, you'd end up with a 2nd gen Pokémon in 3rd gen with illegal stats. If you erased all stat exp data during the conversion, level 100 Pokémon would become useless since they weren't able to gain EVs back then.
    I don't know everything 100% about EVs, but how about this algorithm (I put it in a spoiler tag, it's just... way too nerdy for this topic ) .
    Spoiler:
    1. For every stat from Gen 2, read not so much the EVs themselves, but what percentage of the total EVs the Pokémon has gained are associated with this stat. Let's call the resulting array of float values "gen2EVSpread" (and, obviously, the sum of the values must be 1, as in "100%") .
    2. Take the sum of all EVs and divide it by the maximum EVs across all stats the Pokémon can have. Let's call this value "evPercentageTotal".
    3. Multiply the max EVs a Pokémon can gain in Gen 3 by "evPercentageTotal", and you'll get the number of EVs our newly transferred Pokémon will have in Gen 3 across all stats. Let's call this new value "gen3totalEVs".
    4. Take "gen2EVSpread", duplicate the entry for Special EV (because we have two of them now) , add an entry for HP EV (make it something like the average of all other entries) . Recount the entries so that their sum becomes 1 again. Let's call the new array "gen3EVSpread".
    5. Spread the EVs across different stats by using the percentages calculated in "gen3EVSpread", so that the total EV number is equal to "gen3totalEVs".
    6. After the EVs are set, create the Pokémon itself at level 1, apply the newly calculated EVs and keep leveling it up until it reaches the same level it was in Gen 2 (basically: recalculate the stats).
    7. There you have it. A totally legit EV conversion. It has a drawback though: if your Gen 2 Pokémon had max EVs across all stats, it will become very, very average here, as none of it stats will be maxed out (though when Gen 3 came around, it wasn't an issue: people didn't know or care about EVs back then) ; and the stats will be very different from how they were in Gen 2.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
    Finally, the introduction of natures meant that all Pokémon from earlier generations would have to have a neutral nature and wouldn't be very useful competitively.
    You can always randomize the IVs, just like they do for wild Pokémon. The possibilities are endless.

    But in all seriousness, in my opinion, with how much Pokémon developers value connectivity, if GBC/GBA trades were possible, they wouldn't have overhauled the data structure so drastically in the first place. Just look at Gen 2, with the amount of features they introduced (genders, held items, shininess, Pokérus, Special stat split, different forms for Unown) they already needed an overhaul! I hid the explanation to why they didn't do it in another spoiler tag, because, again, I find it way too nerdy (not to mention, off topic) .
    Spoiler:
    The one thing that kept them from doing so was the desire to be backwards-compatible with the previous games, to the point where they made a feature that, from the developer's point of view, was a huge mistake (even though for us gamers, it was amazing) : two-way trades between Gen 1 and Gen 2. For these trades to be usable, they had to make sure the round-trip worked. For those who don't know what a round-trip is, in our case it is this: you have a Pokémon on a game A, another Pokémon on a game B, and both games are from different generations; if you trade Pokémon between games A and B, and then trade back, both Pokémon must be completely identical to how they were before the first trade (no data loss) . For Gen 2 it meant they couldn't expand the data structure so that no data would be lost when the Pokémon was sent to Gen 1, and had to find either unused variables ("catch rate" in Gen 1 became "held item" in Gen 2) or variables they could use for more than one purpose (attack IV also determines the gender in Gen 2) . Two-way trades created more problems than they solved, and judging by how you can't transfer Pokémon to previous games anymore, the developers realized that.

    I'm not saying they wouldn't have changed the structure at all if Gen 2 -> Gen 3 was a possibility, I'm just saying the EV/IV thing wouldn't have been so drastically different, the changes would have been implemented more progressively. But not needing to ensure compatibility with the previous game because the hardware itself couldn't do it allowed them to rebuild (at least) the EV/IV thing from scratch without ever thinking of how the conversion would work
    .
    So... the entire GBA/GBC incompatibility was a blessing in disguise for them. Now that they had the chance to create an EV/IV mechanic and data structure that work really well and get us used to one-way trades, they don't need to block transfers anymore.
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      #77    
    Old February 8th, 2013 (7:22 AM).
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      What if they made a separate program for the 3DS which allowed you to save pokemon from Gen 5 to it, and then you could just transfer them, kinda like how the Dream Radar works?
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        #78    
      Old February 8th, 2013 (7:36 AM).
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        It'd be nice if we can use something along the lines of Unova Link to transfer from Gen. V, even from Gen. IV (but they go through V NEway). I don't foresee that however and am figuring I will be dealing with moving White 2 to the older DS to import.

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          #79    
        Old February 9th, 2013 (8:51 AM).
        123jozef 123jozef is offline
           
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          I really wanna take my shiny ponyta over there

          It's level 92 and I don't plan on letting evolve
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            #80    
          Old February 9th, 2013 (11:43 AM).
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            I think it's pretty much a given we'll be able to migrate to Gen VI. With the large focus on competitive battling, I think it would be a big middle finger to anyone who'd want to use Pokemon they've been training since 2003 if they can't migrate them over.
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              #81    
            Old February 9th, 2013 (7:28 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Miniduffa View Post
            I think it's pretty much a given we'll be able to migrate to Gen VI. With the large focus on competitive battling, I think it would be a big middle finger to anyone who'd want to use Pokemon they've been training since 2003 if they can't migrate them over.
            Well even if there is no migration, chances are EV training and such could be made easier, and even not, it's easy enough to do that as it is so it wouldn't take that long. :x Plus it'd give an excuse for R/S remakes.
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              #82    
            Old February 9th, 2013 (8:20 PM).
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              The only reason for no migration is if they want to block PokéGen entirely.

              Which will be no use as long as PP manages to hack into 6th gen saves.
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                #83    
              Old February 10th, 2013 (8:41 AM).
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                Even though migrating from Gen V is pretty much a given (and from Gen IV, possibly), and I do actually want it, at the same time, I'm kind of hoping that they don't include it.

                It would be so awesome if the region was big enough, and the after-game areas were big enough, that you could literally find every Pokémon with just X and Y. It'd be so cool to go out and recatch every Pokémon in 3D - sure it'd suck for competitive battlers, but, I don't do that, so I don't really care wouldn't be too torn up.
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                  #84    
                Old February 13th, 2013 (5:51 PM).
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                  It would also be a great entry point to competititive battling with everyone starting over and having new teams. Let's face it; if there was migration, then RNG'ing can just happen in G5 and shinies can be 'artifically obtained'(meaing not naturally and just by pure luck), which sucks for us that ONLY obtain natural shinies. If they cut us off, and the new values for 3ds somehow restrict RNG'ing, that would be awesome.
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                    #85    
                  Old February 22nd, 2013 (12:35 PM).
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                    LOL transfering is not so amusing. I just used cheat codes on games and presto.
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                      #86    
                    Old March 4th, 2013 (6:48 AM).
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                      Hey Everyone!
                      I was wondering, and this might be an interesting topic to talk about but, do you think Pokemon X/Y will be compatible with previous generations, for example Black/White and their sequels, or do you think they will draw a line because of all the new features it supposedly has, plus the extremely better graphics and the sprites, now being full 3D models, do you think we could trade between them? Discuss!
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                        #87    
                      Old March 4th, 2013 (7:11 AM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Lunar Crescent View Post
                      Hey Everyone!
                      I was wondering, and this might be an interesting topic to talk about but, do you think Pokemon X/Y will be compatible with previous generations, for example Black/White and their sequels, or do you think they will draw a line because of all the new features it supposedly has, plus the extremely better graphics and the sprites, now being full 3D models, do you think we could trade between them? Discuss!
                      ~ Lunar
                      Since the topic of migrating and compatibility go hand in hand and migrating Pokémon is likely to come up when discussing cross generation compatibility, I've merged your thread here.

                      I don't know if we'll be able to trade between fourth and fifth gen games with X and Y, but like mentioned, I believe migrating is probable. When you compare the first two generations with the third gen, the reason why they weren't compatible was because the GameBoy Color and the Advance were two completely different systems whereas the 3DS and the DS still share commonalities with one another.
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                        #88    
                      Old March 4th, 2013 (7:18 AM).
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                      Migrating should be much more streamlined this gen, especially with the Digital Download version if they release it on eShop. Plop your black 2 into the game slot, load Pokemon X/Y click transfer from game slot and boom you have your Pokemon transferred. At worst they should just give us a transfer app which allows it to read your BW/B2W2 cart, stores your Pokemon temporarily, and then send them off to X/Y.
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                        #89    
                      Old March 4th, 2013 (7:24 AM).
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                        Since X/Y will be in 3DS GF should probably have something easy and simple to use without is consuming too much time since some people might have over 600 pokemon.
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                          #90    
                        Old March 4th, 2013 (7:37 AM).
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                        Which is what I described. Mass transferring either through a tool for those who don't who don't/can't get the download version of the game if there is one, or a direct transfer system with the download version and whatever game is in the slot.
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                          #91    
                        Old March 4th, 2013 (11:12 AM).
                        jjepic180 jjepic180 is offline
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                          I hope we can migrate. I'm not too fond of new Pokemon being released so I would need that.
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                            #92    
                          Old March 4th, 2013 (12:22 PM).
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                            If they would introduce new types like some people suggested, no. Introducing completely new mechanics would ruin previous gen pokemon's power and so leave them at a total disadvantage, and so they'd have to balance out and so transfer would be impossible. If not, I can't see why not, except for them getting fans angered. Would be kinda stupid IMO.
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                              #93    
                            Old March 25th, 2013 (11:18 AM).
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                              I hope the transfer game will be fun to play. I enjoyed Pal park in gen IV, however Gen 5's wasn't all that fun. Maybe they can make a short mini game in which we use a Porygon to get our transfered Pokémon over to our side, while blasting foreign intruders. Though Porygon may not be the best option due to the seisure episode...
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                                #94    
                              Old March 27th, 2013 (8:21 AM).
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                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
                              I hope the transfer game will be fun to play. I enjoyed Pal park in gen IV, however Gen 5's wasn't all that fun. Maybe they can make a short mini game in which we use a Porygon to get our transfered Pokémon over to our side, while blasting foreign intruders. Though Porygon may not be the best option due to the seisure episode...
                              I don't want a transfer game at all. :x It took a while to get used to Unova's and a transfer game is useless, so... they should just make it easy and direct imo.
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                                #95    
                              Old April 16th, 2013 (7:20 AM).
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
                                I hope the transfer game will be fun to play. I enjoyed Pal park in gen IV, however Gen 5's wasn't all that fun. Maybe they can make a short mini game in which we use a Porygon to get our transfered Pokémon over to our side, while blasting foreign intruders. Though Porygon may not be the best option due to the seisure episode...
                                I dont understand Porygon's issue with the banned episode to the game. Anime has no influence with the reception of the games. Anyway the idea with Porygon is very interesting since the systems have gone alot more advance.
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