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Old March 20th, 2013 (1:29 PM).
Serene Grace Serene Grace is offline
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Originally Posted by ZachLMedia View Post
The thing is, when I made that post, I was actually thinking about Visual Studio. It does seem nice and all, but I have just never been able to understand anything towards general computer programming >_<
It's a fairly simple program to use and most of it is self explanatory. If you need any help with compiling, just ask here.
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Old March 21st, 2013 (12:03 PM).
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Archenoth Archenoth is offline
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    Originally Posted by Serene Grace View Post
    On the flip side, a procedural based language that doesn't give you the options to have any object oriented methods (which I believe C and Javascript are) are straightforward in the sense that they're for mocking up quick pieces of code (in my opinion, anyway) and anything more will confuse (or at least make it harder to make significant changes quickly) the programmer, even with good comments, six months or so down the line when they come to change the code.
    Well, JavaScript is actually multi-paradigm in the same way as PHP is. Except it uses "prototype-based" object orientation, which is a bit weird for some people. It has many advantages over class-based, but it is less flexible when it comes to inheritance. (Though can serve the same purpose) If you are curious, here is what prototype-based object oriented JavaScript commonly looks like...

    This code can be invoked like you would expect a class can be:

    var rest = new REST("table");
    Also, unrelated to the above code but, in JavaScript, you can also create objects in a functional and anonymous way (Which is all kinds of useful):

    var someObj = {
      number: 5,
      printNumber: function(){
    someObj.printNumber(); // alert(5);
    Originally Posted by Serene Grace View Post
    It's funny, before studying it, I always thought object oriented paradigm was so confusing and now I don't program in anything but that style. Still, I would love to learn a fully procedural language such as C but it all seems so... messy to me.

    While I do know PHP, I always use it in an object oriented fashion, therefore I still technically don't know a procedural language! XD
    That's because procedural is messier. It's easy to handle for small projects, but working with larger programs becomes a real exercise in code management. It really demonstrates the requirement for coding conventions well I think.

    Procedural is a direct predecessor of object-oriented. You start out with code, and to modularize and organize it, you split it up into functions, this is the procedural style... And from there you split those functions up into related groups, Objects, or in Java's case, Classes. This is the object-oriented style.

    Without object orientation, you have to do the association and management of functions on your own. So you start naming functions with more descriptive names depending on what you want them to do AND what you want them to interact with.

    Languages like Java also don't use functions, but rather methods. The difference here is that a function is executable code, whereas a method is actually an object passing the class that it was instantiated from a "message" to run some given code it has within it. Every object created from a class will all have methods that reference the exact same code, and the only thing unique to each object is actually the variables, or state within it. Just like how it works in Procedural. The only difference is that everything is managed for you and you are restricted to the code that you designated was "right" for a given amount of information.
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    Old April 7th, 2013 (8:04 PM). Edited April 7th, 2013 by twocows.
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    twocows twocows is offline
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    Originally Posted by IIMarckus View Post
    Actually, you can’t! Stuff is frequently defined in header files but anything you define can be clobbered by another header.

    is not necessarily the same thing as
    The preprocessor (specifically the combination of #include and #define) is one of C’s biggest weaknesses, along with string handling and general vulnerability to buffer overflows. There is a neat proposal to implement modules for C/C++ in LLVM; I hope it gains traction.I guess you’ve never been around companies that have fresh CS grads still believing in the wonders of Java. I have, and it’s really disheartening. Better languages have been gaining ground in academia (along with some worse ones), but Java isn’t going anywhere anytime soon…
    Fair enough.

    As for Java, it's still dying outside academia. And it's starting to die there, too. Good riddance.

    Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
    It does not suck. Those people here who are against it couldnt or wouldnt try to understand the language. Its got its bad things as well as good, every language does but it wouldnt be used for countless games/game engines if it was such a bad language. Just look at EPIC Games and the Unreal Engine(C++ at its finest)... C++ is a great language for those who can understand it and use it properly
    It sucks. The funny thing about you citing the Unreal engine as an example is that it's a prime example of one of the reasons C++ is awful: to write good code in C++, you have to break pretty much every convention established as "good practice" in the C++ community. The folks at Unreal wrote a good engine despite it being in C++, not because of it. Any language can be used to create something beautiful, no matter how awful. That doesn't make the language itself good. C++ actively works against you, as opposed to a language like Python, which works to help you.

    If you're ever forced to program in C++ for some reason (I am so sorry), check out Qt. Apparently, they've adopted a way of doing things that actually makes sense. I believe QtCore doesn't have any GUI-stuff in it, so you can just use that library if you're doing CLI stuff.

    Originally Posted by ZachLMedia View Post
    I tried compiling some open-source binaries with C++ and I must say, it's very complicated, even for a first-timer. (inb4 compiling isnt for n00bz)

    Overall, programming is the weakest computer skill for me to work with. I have tried again and again to get a general fit for programming (through languages such as VB.NET, C#, and C++ as mentioned above), but I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Perhaps I need to take some classes on programming before I try again. :\
    Well, the fact that you're doing C++ is your first problem. That said, compiling is easy. Write a C source file, then gcc source.c. Done. You can do more stuff, but to start with, that should be fine.

    As for learning to program, maybe you should check out SICP?

    Originally Posted by Team Fail View Post
    Visual Studio is pretty nice to use, I must admit. Especially when there's Intellisense. It really helps with the capitalization, it's so nit picky on it.
    Originally Posted by Ash493 View Post
    Yeah, VS is like messiah for programmers :D
    Heavy IDEs are more trouble than they're worth. Give me Notepad++ or Gedit over that bloated crap anytime.

    Dude... Windows' are coded in C++ and we all know how stable and quick they are...
    To be fair, you can't blame C++ for Microsoft developers' incompetence. I'm sure it didn't help, though.
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    Old April 19th, 2013 (12:26 AM).
    Pixadom Pixadom is offline
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      Old April 19th, 2013 (1:12 AM).
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      Satoshi Ookami Satoshi Ookami is offline
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      Originally Posted by twocows View Post
      Heavy IDEs are more trouble than they're worth. Give me Notepad++ or Gedit over that bloated crap anytime.
      Not really fan of CLI compiling even though I use it pretty frequently but I guess there are some people who like it more than using IDEs...
      Still... you cannot really compile C# without VS. Guess that explains why I'm not fan of CLIC.
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      Old June 29th, 2013 (5:28 AM).
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      rhettz_emboar rhettz_emboar is offline
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        Can anyone teach me some programs that I can make using C language?
        Im still a Freshman comsci Student so I dont know much yet...
        Please teach me some

        I hate people like you..
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        Old June 30th, 2013 (7:27 PM).
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          In my personal experience, figure out something you like and write a program based around that.

          So for instance, I always loved Pokémon, and I've been working on an open source C++ code library for hacking Pokémon save files. It's a project with some variety, and I've learned a lot about development in general because of the things I've needed to do for it.
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