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  #26    
Old March 18th, 2013 (6:26 PM).
Morkula Morkula is offline
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Face it - you weren't going to get a liberal pope that supported gay marriage, contraception, or the like. The cardinals were all appointed by John Paul and Benedict and therefore share the same conservative views - which are the official views of the church itself.

That said, even though I'm not Catholic, I'm interested in seeing how Francis does. He's already conducting himself totally differently from Benedict, and he seems to be really into social justice and helping the poor - which I'm really happy with. We'll have to see how his papacy turns out.
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  #27    
Old March 19th, 2013 (5:17 AM). Edited March 19th, 2013 by TRIFORCE89.
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He's exactly what the Church doesn't need. Incredibly anti-gay and dogmatic.
Well, it isn't a popularity contest. The teachings of the Church are the teachings and they aren't going to change. If a religion can change its dogma, then what exactly is the point of it? Not saying I wouldn't like to see them adapt, but I'm not really expecting them to and not surprised that they won't

What can change, although may not necessarily change under Francis, are traditions (like when we ditched the no meat on Fridays thing). Things that are symbolic.
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Old April 3rd, 2013 (5:39 PM).
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Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
Well, it isn't a popularity contest. The teachings of the Church are the teachings and they aren't going to change. If a religion can change its dogma, then what exactly is the point of it? Not saying I wouldn't like to see them adapt, but I'm not really expecting them to and not surprised that they won't

What can change, although may not necessarily change under Francis, are traditions (like when we ditched the no meat on Fridays thing). Things that are symbolic.
But antiquated & backwards stances towards just about everything important these days needs to change. Adapt or die. Or they risk becoming an afterthought in some ares of the world already trending away from high religiosity.
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Old April 3rd, 2013 (6:19 PM).
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I don't think he's anti-gay and dogmatic. He doesn't want to rock the boat much, but he's gotten some good press about his private views. It took a whole term for Obama to come out on same-sex marriage. Do you think his views actually "evolved"? Now the Church is a super conservative organization and it's hard to change anything. But he has broken tradition, at least symbolically, in his first few days. Perhaps that's just him trying to maneuver himself into a good position before he starts a civil war within the Church? I say give him some time, things may change. And if they don't, he is still only a man.
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Old April 3rd, 2013 (6:25 PM).
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I don't think he's anti-gay and dogmatic. He doesn't want to rock the boat much, but he's gotten some good press about his private views. It took a whole term for Obama to come out on same-sex marriage. Do you think his views actually "evolved"? Now the Church is a super conservative organization and it's hard to change anything. But he has broken tradition, at least symbolically, in his first few days. Perhaps that's just him trying to maneuver himself into a good position before he starts a civil war within the Church? I say give him some time, things may change. And if they don't, he is still only a man.

He called gay marriage a “destructive attack on God’s plan.”

More goodies in the link. So until he changes course, that's his stance, and therefore the churches stance.
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Old April 3rd, 2013 (6:34 PM).
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He called gay marriage a “destructive attack on God’s plan.”

More goodies in the link. So until he changes course, that's his stance, and therefore the churches stance.
And as Cardinal, it has been reported that he once said "I'm in favor of gay rights and in any case, I also favor civil unions for homosexuals, but I believe that Argentina is not yet ready for a gay marriage law".

The last bit is unfortunate, but still... hey civil unions at least. Which kinda comes back to separation of Church VS. State.
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  #32    
Old April 3rd, 2013 (6:41 PM).
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So until he changes course, that's his stance, and therefore the churches stance.
I don't think it's fair to demonize and polarize him. It's his public stance, as he is a public persona, but he may be a good person on the inside. And I think it's unfair when people dehumanize public officials because of their "line". If anything he's not even worth caricaturing because he isn't extremist nor has he done anything crazy like Bush.

That being said, yeah, he might not turn out to do anything for same-sex marriage. I do approve him calling for a "church for the poor" though. Even if he can't satisfy everything we'd want to see, I'm willing to take the good with the bad.
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