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Old April 28th, 2013 (1:44 PM).
Happy Smiley Yum Yum Happy Smiley Yum Yum is offline
     
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    Hello!

    I was speaking to someone earlier and I ended up arguing over Facade. I think it's an excellent move, but she thought it was dire, because of the self-detriment that makes it so good.

    I want to ask you what you think, and why.

    My view: It's amazing because of its high base power, and large PP. It strikes me as useful in the E4 due to their ability to burn/paralyse/poison you.

    Her view: Base power and PP may be OK, but Headbutt would be more useful because it's not hilariously situational. It's consistent and reliable, which is what should matter.

    It's now to the floor. Do share your views!
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    Old April 28th, 2013 (1:49 PM).
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    Sounds like your friend wasn't using a Pokemon with Guts for the ability.
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    Old April 28th, 2013 (2:01 PM).
    Happy Smiley Yum Yum Happy Smiley Yum Yum is offline
       
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      I didn't even think of that! My Swellow is now going to be taught Facade.
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      Old April 28th, 2013 (3:32 PM).
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      Yeah, as soon as I saw this I thought of Guts Conkeldurr. XD not advance gen related, but it does tie into Facade. From what I remember, Facade is actually the best move on Guts Conkeldurr's set and it demolishes anyone really. Might be stuck with a bit of residual damage, but the damage you deal with it is so amazing.
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      Old April 28th, 2013 (11:25 PM).
      Yankas Yankas is online now
         
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        I am not a huge fan of Facade and its play style. It's a very powerful move, but every time parahax decides to make me skip 3 turns in a row I am reminded as to why I usually tend to heal status as soon as possible.
        Burn also negates any benefit of Facade unless the user also has Guts.
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        Old April 29th, 2013 (12:37 AM).
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        Elaitenstile Elaitenstile is offline
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          Uhh... the whole point of Facade being... awesome? Calm down folks, it's not a OHKOer or something. I've seen better moves, although none I can name from or before the Third Generation. Seriously why you should NEVER paralyze Norman's Slaking. Unless you've a Geodude stashed off somewhere... but seriously, look at this commentary :

          My Swellow (Guts Ability) vs Drake's Flygon

          FLYGON used DRAGONBREATH!
          SWELLOW is PARALYZED! It may not be able to move!
          SWELLOW is PARALYZED! It can't move!
          FLYGON used DRAGONBREATH!
          SWELLOW used FACADE!

          OHKO. BAM.

          But the problem of Facade being, if you're using it during a status problem, it's gonna be hard.

          Frozen - Try using Facade. Try.
          Sleep - Same as above.
          Poisoned - A trickle of health go down, not too bad, I suppose.
          Burnt - A trickle of health again, but REDUCED ATTACK this time. Sorta goes against Facade, no?
          Paralyzed - Lesser speed means more vulnerable, also chances of immobility, again dangerous.
          Fainted - HTF can I use Facade?

          So, it's your choice, folks. Either try a Full Heal or risk using Facade.
          Also be wary of equipping Lum Berries.
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          Old April 29th, 2013 (1:23 AM).
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          I remember when I was little, and I used to teach Facade to all my Pokémon that didn't have another better attacking move available. I have also experienced how powerful it can be, especially combined with Guts.
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          Old April 29th, 2013 (8:25 AM).
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            when I was playing pokemon Sapphire first time, I did not really understand this move.
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            Old April 29th, 2013 (8:40 AM).
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            Not really specifically about the effects of the move, but more the pronunciation. Normally the word facade would have the accent on the c (I forget the name of it though) so that you know the c is more of an s sound. Did anyone else call it "fuh-kayde" when they first got it in RSE? Because I know I did. lol
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            Old April 29th, 2013 (10:16 AM).
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              Okay. Facade can be great, but you're kinda relying on the enemy to do something to you. So you're relying on luck for it to be a big-hitter. I prefer a move that is consistently powerful, and works because of what I'm doing rather than what the enemy is doing. Does that make sense?
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              Old April 29th, 2013 (10:24 AM).
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              Quote:
              Okay. Facade can be great, but you're kinda relying on the enemy to do something to you. So you're relying on luck for it to be a big-hitter. I prefer a move that is consistently powerful, and works because of what I'm doing rather than what the enemy is doing. Does that make sense?
              Not if you're in a double battle, though. Facade combos are great in games like Colosseum and Gale of Darkness. For the main series though, it's understandable.

              This topic is getting to be a bit more difficult to keep on track with just gen III though, plus the move did get easier to use in later gens, so I'm going to go ahead and move this into PGC.
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              Old April 29th, 2013 (10:56 AM).
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              Facade is the go-to move for Pokémon that can abuse being statused themselves. Examples include Ursaring and Zangoose, who have abilities that increase Attack when statused (Guts for Ursaring, Toxic Boost for Zangoose, though the latter only works with poison).
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              Old April 29th, 2013 (12:14 PM).
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                Facade is very boring, so a big nay!
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                Old April 29th, 2013 (1:09 PM).
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                You don't really want to work Facade with paralysis or sleep... The constant drain from burn or poison is a lot easier to handle than the randomness of the other two. That said, Facade is awesome... in certain situations. :B
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                Old April 29th, 2013 (5:06 PM).
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                  I think Facade is a great move. I taught it to my Banette in Black 2 for a move that wasn't a Ghost or Dark type. It really came in handy when my friend poisoned my Banette with Serperior and Facade knocked out his remaining two Pokemon. Also, combined with the Guts ability, this move is awesome!
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                  Old April 29th, 2013 (5:14 PM).
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                  Facade is actually a pretty good move when used effectively in conjunction with status conditions inflicted by items like Toxic/Flame Orb, and even better if you have Guts for an ability.

                  It can sometimes be very handy in certain situations, but oh god if you have Guts this move can be very deadly in battle, it's definitely worth it.
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                  Old May 3rd, 2013 (5:33 AM).
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                    My only EV-trained monster is actually a Facade Swellow. It's not really that effective but does guarantee good damage.
                    I don't think it's much better than a novelty gimmick, on most monsters.


                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by ★Hoenn★ View Post
                    Burnt - A trickle of health again, but REDUCED ATTACK this time. Sorta goes against Facade, no?
                    Monsters with Guts won't suffer the attack drop, at least.
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                    Old May 3rd, 2013 (6:43 AM).
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                    Facade on its own is powerful enough (Norman's Slaking...urrrgh)

                    But, combined with a status effect, becomes 3x more lethal, OHKOing almost everything that isn't Steel, Rock or Ghost-type. I managed to get this calculation:
                    252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 313-369 (58.61 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
                    - Poisoned Ursaring using Facade vs a common NU threat - Alomomola. While this may be a rather competitive calculation, it just further proves that Facade is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.
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