Sixth Generation The Kalos region awaits! Explore the first 3D Pokémon region while putting a stop to Team Flare. Then, revisit the Hoenn region with Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire!

TrollandToad.com
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old April 7th, 2013 (10:34 PM).
bennyandthejetz bennyandthejetz is offline
     
    Join Date: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5
    Has there been any discussion as to whether or not Nintendo/Gamefreak plans to prevent pokemon altered via pokegen/pokesav to be traded or used in X & Y?

    As a competitive battler, this is probably the #1 issue that I would like to see addressed with 6th gen. Currently the GTS is plagued with hacked pokemon & it really detracts from the experience. I'm not talking about Blastiose with flamethrower or something silly like that.

    I'm talking about pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses etc....its like "Yeah right...."

    Considering the entire premise of the Pokemon series is generating a "bond" with your pokemon, shouldn't the act of breeding/training pokemon be just as important as battling itself? Just seems that it has become commonplace & accepted amongst the pokemon community to hack all of their pokemon via pokegen/pokesav.
    Reply With Quote

    Relevant Advertising!

      #2    
    Old April 7th, 2013 (10:42 PM).
    rliberto2's Avatar
    rliberto2 rliberto2 is offline
       
      Join Date: Apr 2013
      Age: 26
      Gender: Male
      Posts: 36
      But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
      Reply With Quote
        #3    
      Old April 7th, 2013 (11:28 PM). Edited April 7th, 2013 by pikachu4249.
      pikachu4249's Avatar
      pikachu4249 pikachu4249 is offline
         
        Join Date: Feb 2013
        Gender: Male
        Posts: 31
        I think it's a good idea because what if
        You have your favorite Pokemon from Sinnoh transferred to black and now you want it in X&Y. They should allow pokegen/pokesav, but ban the transfer of hacked Pokemon like in the random match ups. They should let you hack your old hacked Pokemon into X&Y. This would be very helpful. This could be something we could fork over with the creators.
        Reply With Quote
          #4    
        Old April 7th, 2013 (11:52 PM). Edited April 7th, 2013 by bennyandthejetz.
        bennyandthejetz bennyandthejetz is offline
           
          Join Date: Apr 2013
          Posts: 5
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
          But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
          I think it would have a positive effect on the competitive environment as well as add more diversity. Right now there is like 100 pokemon if that, that are used competitively. What about the other 549 pokemon? They are never used because they are inferior to the min/maxed legendaries & many 5th gen pokemon. By preventing the use of pokegen/pokesav it is going to decrease that gap, making ALOT more pokemon viable. Most people will not take the time to properly breed/train pokemon.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by pikachu4249 View Post
          I think it's a good idea because what if
          You have your favorite Pokemon from Sinnoh transferred to black and now you want it in X&Y. They should allow pokegen/pokesav, but ban the transfer of hacked Pokemon like in the random match ups. They should let you hack your old hacked Pokemon into X&Y. This would be very helpful. This could be something we could fork over with the creators.
          That seems reasonable. That way collectors can continue to collect their pokemon, but any pokemon altered in any way can not be used for competitive use.
          Reply With Quote
            #5    
          Old April 8th, 2013 (8:53 AM).
          Xander Olivieri's Avatar
          Xander Olivieri Xander Olivieri is offline
             
            Join Date: Jun 2010
            Gender: Other
            Nature: Hasty
            Posts: 5,601
            You can get perfect IV'd, shiny pokemon with proper Hidden Power coverage without Pokegen/pokesav. RNGers get them a lot. The games can already identify actual manipulated coding in the game to keep hacked pokemon out of competitive play, but a perfect build is possible with out hacking.
            __________________
            Reply With Quote
              #6    
            Old April 8th, 2013 (10:10 AM).
            Cerberus87's Avatar
            Cerberus87 Cerberus87 is offline
            Mega Houndoom, baby!
               
              Join Date: Jul 2012
              Location: Dream World
              Age: 30
              Gender: Male
              Nature: Lonely
              Posts: 1,671
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
              But if you can actually get it in the game though - what is the big deal? So if they do ban pokegen/pokesav and everyone actually takes the time to breed and they still have pokemon that are shiny, have perfect natures, perfect IV that provide hidden power to cover their weaknesses then what? Would you be content because they actually took a little more time to get them, to get the same result they otherwise would have? (Im not saying im taking either side either)
              You do know the chances of getting a Pokémon with all 31 IVs AND good nature AND shiny are extremely slim, right? I'll eat my hat if Pokégen is banned next gen yet we still see a Pokémon like this. The odds are completely against the player.

              And RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
              __________________


              Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, the day Pokémon pulled a Dallas and jumped the shark.
              Reply With Quote
                #7    
              Old April 8th, 2013 (10:39 AM).
              porkiewpyne porkiewpyne is offline
                 
                Join Date: Jun 2010
                Posts: 17
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
                RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
                Debatable. But comparing RNGing with an AR? I'd say there's a world of a difference.

                RNG would be like card counting in a casino while using an AR is like mind-controlling the dealer to give you whatever cards you desire.

                As you can see, RNG works because you UNDERSTAND how the mechanics behind it. It takes skill, time and effort to pull it off. And even then, it's not 100% foolproof. Just like card counting.
                Meanwhile, with an AR, you press A to activate. And it works. Every. Single. Time.


                Or a better example would be EV training, & manual vs AR.

                Would you call those who EV train cheats just because they understand how the system works? They still have to manually find the desired Pokemon to grind against, and fight. Over and over again. All while keeping tally of the points achieved. Or if they want to retrain, they would have to obtain the EV-reduction berries.

                Meanwhile, for AR users, select and press A.

                You see where I am going here? If anything, the understanding of the mechanics allows players to gain a larger amount of control (without granting total control), placing emphasis on effort and skill while minimising the effect of chance and luck.
                Reply With Quote
                  #8    
                Old April 8th, 2013 (11:10 AM).
                SnowpointQuincy's Avatar
                SnowpointQuincy SnowpointQuincy is offline
                Seeker of FRIEND CODES
                   
                  Join Date: Jul 2008
                  Location: Texas
                  Gender: Male
                  Nature: Lonely
                  Posts: 1,285
                  Hidden Power is stupid for this exact reason. There is no legit way for a Pokemon with the right IV, Ability, and Egg Moves to ALSO have the Exact Type and Power of Hidden Power.

                  You are asking people to cheat. If there is no legit way to make Hidden Power work, why have it at all?

                  Having a weakness in a moveset, not having 100% type coverage, gives each Pokemon a unique purpose on the team. If one pokemon could deal super effective damage to everything, Why have six pokemon at all?

                  The only thin Hidden Power can do is homogenize Pokemon so they all operate the same way.
                  __________________
                  Reply With Quote
                    #9    
                  Old April 8th, 2013 (12:13 PM).
                  rliberto2's Avatar
                  rliberto2 rliberto2 is offline
                     
                    Join Date: Apr 2013
                    Age: 26
                    Gender: Male
                    Posts: 36
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Cerberus87 View Post
                    You do know the chances of getting a Pokémon with all 31 IVs AND good nature AND shiny are extremely slim, right? I'll eat my hat if Pokégen is banned next gen yet we still see a Pokémon like this. The odds are completely against the player.

                    And RNG is cheating as well. You need an external program (RNG Reporter) to even find your seed and calibrate your DS. How's that different from using an AR? It's even an improper way of cheating, since, if you know what you're doing, you can replicate a Pokémon with Pokégen and Nintendo won't even know it was hacked.
                    Yes I know the chances are slim, but it will only take one person to successfully breed a perfect shiny and somewhere down the road im sure there will be a way to clone and then the pokemon will be infecting the online play. If there was a way to ban pokegen pokemon on online battles but allow the program to be used for the story-mode I wouldnt mind at all. I also disagree, RNG is not cheating. There is a lot of time and preparation involved.
                    Reply With Quote
                      #10    
                    Old April 8th, 2013 (12:36 PM).
                    Cordelia Cordelia is offline
                    Banned
                       
                      Join Date: Aug 2011
                      Nature: Sassy
                      Posts: 9,753
                      Lol, RNG abuse is definitely not cheating. Nintendo has said at VGC tournaments that it is the only legit way to get shiny/flawless Pokemon. It's like card counting, but it won't get you taken to the backroom and beaten.

                      X/Y won't be RNG'd until the 3DS and its encryption of the carts is cracked. When that happens, the RNG will be cracked as well.
                      Reply With Quote
                        #11    
                      Old April 8th, 2013 (12:39 PM). Edited April 8th, 2013 by Cerberus87.
                      Cerberus87's Avatar
                      Cerberus87 Cerberus87 is offline
                      Mega Houndoom, baby!
                         
                        Join Date: Jul 2012
                        Location: Dream World
                        Age: 30
                        Gender: Male
                        Nature: Lonely
                        Posts: 1,671
                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by porkiewpyne View Post
                        Debatable. But comparing RNGing with an AR? I'd say there's a world of a difference.

                        RNG would be like card counting in a casino while using an AR is like mind-controlling the dealer to give you whatever cards you desire.

                        As you can see, RNG works because you UNDERSTAND how the mechanics behind it. It takes skill, time and effort to pull it off. And even then, it's not 100% foolproof. Just like card counting.
                        Meanwhile, with an AR, you press A to activate. And it works. Every. Single. Time.
                        You just described selective breeding vs RNG, not RNG vs AR.

                        With RNG, you're also manipulating the game. The game is meant to be completely random. RNG is exploiting a fault in the randomness of the game to get what you want.

                        I personally don't take the time to learn RNG because 1) I don't have a DS Lite, with which it's much easier to do the process, 2) Pokégen gives me a legal, perfect Pokémon ready to be used in competitive play with much less effort and without the possible side effects of using an AR on your game (which are urban legend anyway but let's not get into that).

                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by rliberto2 View Post
                        Yes I know the chances are slim, but it will only take one person to successfully breed a perfect shiny and somewhere down the road im sure there will be a way to clone and then the pokemon will be infecting the online play. If there was a way to ban pokegen pokemon on online battles but allow the program to be used for the story-mode I wouldnt mind at all. I also disagree, RNG is not cheating. There is a lot of time and preparation involved.
                        Amount of effort isn't a factor in defining what's a cheat. RNG definitely takes much less time than using the mechanics the game makers actually intended us to (selective breeding). It may be near impossible to get a perfect Pokémon with selective breeding, even though a perfect Pokémon is not always needed.

                        Also, many RNG breeders use gen'd Dittos to begin the breeding process and think it's perfectly fine and not cheating.

                        I'm not against it (the various methods), because I can very well use them myself, and it levels the field when even the PWT Pokémon have perfect IVs which regular players would otherwise find impossible to get, and you also don't win instantly by having an assortment of perfect RNG'd or gen'd Pokémon, but it sure does break the game and means Pokémon is a completely flawed game, because all the mechanics of the game are pointless when you can just generate a perfect Pokémon from scratch, or manipulate the game so that it generates one for you.
                        __________________


                        Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, the day Pokémon pulled a Dallas and jumped the shark.
                        Reply With Quote
                          #12    
                        Old April 8th, 2013 (1:51 PM).
                        jellotime91 jellotime91 is offline
                           
                          Join Date: Sep 2009
                          Posts: 304
                          I hope they do, and I hope they overhaul the IV / EV system and make competitive battling more accessible.
                          __________________
                          Reply With Quote
                            #13    
                          Old April 8th, 2013 (1:57 PM).
                          Snoopy's Avatar
                          Snoopy Snoopy is offline
                             
                            Join Date: Jan 2011
                            Location: New York City
                            Gender: Male
                            Nature: Jolly
                            Posts: 203
                            I would love PokeGen to be banned from being accessed in time for Pokemon X and Y, but I honestly don't have a problem with it, I actually love it a ton. Nearly every competitive battler uses Pokegen, it saves time, and nothing will honestly be different if you trained your Pokemon yourself. I'd only want Pokegen banned from being accessed so that battling can be a bit fairer than it already is IMO...
                            Reply With Quote
                              #14    
                            Old April 9th, 2013 (11:22 AM).
                            OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire's Avatar
                            OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire is offline
                            10000 year Emperor of Hoenn
                               
                              Join Date: Apr 2010
                              Location: Oregon
                              Age: 23
                              Gender: Male
                              Nature: Careful
                              Posts: 17,505
                              Well the 3DS detects games have been altered, so if anyone tried to change their Pokemon with foreign devices/ programs the game will likely crash and be locked (not exactly sure how it works so I may be wrong about some things.) So I see there being an end to this, without the need to make a ban at all.
                              __________________
                              I'm currently working on some novels. If you're interested you can read them here:
                              https://www.wattpad.com/user/ImperialSun
                              Reply With Quote
                                #15    
                              Old April 15th, 2013 (2:28 AM).
                              bennyandthejetz bennyandthejetz is offline
                                 
                                Join Date: Apr 2013
                                Posts: 5
                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
                                Well the 3DS detects games have been altered, so if anyone tried to change their Pokemon with foreign devices/ programs the game will likely crash and be locked (not exactly sure how it works so I may be wrong about some things.) So I see there being an end to this, without the need to make a ban at all.
                                How about Pokemon that have already been altered? That is the real issue. Can it detect pokemon altered via 3rd party programs when they attempt to trade to 3DS even if their stats etc are within set parameters?

                                I just discovered this site called Pokecheck & it is absolutely frightening to see how common this is. Like the vast majority of recorded Pokemon are hacked with perfect 31 IV's & hidden powers to cover their weaknesses flawlessly.

                                How could Nintendo let it get this bad?
                                Reply With Quote
                                  #16    
                                Old April 15th, 2013 (4:20 AM).
                                Yankas Yankas is online now
                                   
                                  Join Date: Mar 2013
                                  Gender: Male
                                  Posts: 55
                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by bennyandthejetz View Post
                                  How about Pokemon that have already been altered? That is the real issue. Can it detect pokemon altered via 3rd party programs when they attempt to trade to 3DS even if their stats etc are within set parameters?

                                  I just discovered this site called Pokecheck & it is absolutely frightening to see how common this is. Like the vast majority of recorded Pokemon are hacked with perfect 31 IV's & hidden powers to cover their weaknesses flawlessly.

                                  How could Nintendo let it get this bad?
                                  It doesn't matter what Nintendo does or doesn't do, it is literally impossible to prevent cheating. In a multiplayer game, it is somewhat possible to achieve it is by having significant amount of game logic as well as the save games be handled by a server as seen in most online games.
                                  There is always-online DRM for single player games but it is neither fail-safe nor is it practical for a handheld game, not to mention that it is a defective-by-design concept in the first place.
                                  Reply With Quote
                                    #17    
                                  Old April 17th, 2013 (12:31 AM).
                                  Ledgetheorc's Avatar
                                  Ledgetheorc Ledgetheorc is offline
                                  Pokemon Researcher
                                     
                                    Join Date: Apr 2013
                                    Location: Greenville, South Carolina
                                    Age: 27
                                    Gender: Male
                                    Nature: Docile
                                    Posts: 32
                                    I personally love Min-Maxing Pokes, I do personally craft my own, though I'm usually in something like Pokemon Showdown! without having an actual game. Forcing me to play legit would be completely fine by me as long as they made capping level easier. I shouldn't have to spam-run the elite four thousands of times to max a party of pokes. While yes, some of us do have the time to handcraft, breed, level and hatch every pokemon, I personally don't. The little time I get to play I'd like to do what I enjoy, not feel so far behind it's not worth it. So, the solution? PokeSav/Gen. I don't typically spam shinies but I do make perfect EVs/IVs, for sure. Not worrying as much about IVs as EVs of course. The difference in a speed stacked or bulk stacked poke can make a game breaking difference.
                                    Reply With Quote
                                      #18    
                                    Old April 17th, 2013 (2:19 AM).
                                    gdmatt's Avatar
                                    gdmatt gdmatt is offline
                                       
                                      Join Date: Feb 2007
                                      Gender:
                                      Nature: Adamant
                                      Posts: 22
                                      I think an overhaul of the current EV and IV system is the only way to fix the problem. Reduce the variations in each individual stats, meaning if any Pokemon is modified to be the best it can be, the advantage would be much smaller.
                                      __________________

                                      Pokemon Platinum Friend Code
                                      4769-9578-3982
                                      3DS Friend Code
                                      5043-2491-1563
                                      Reply With Quote
                                        #19    
                                      Old April 17th, 2013 (9:25 AM).
                                      Ledgetheorc's Avatar
                                      Ledgetheorc Ledgetheorc is offline
                                      Pokemon Researcher
                                         
                                        Join Date: Apr 2013
                                        Location: Greenville, South Carolina
                                        Age: 27
                                        Gender: Male
                                        Nature: Docile
                                        Posts: 32
                                        I can agree with that, I hate how some pokemon are almost completely useless simply because one in a higher stat tier has enough speed to one shot them. That's always bugged me, I understand that not every pokemon can be equal, but final stages and basic only pokes should be more well balanced, or at the least have some way to stand a chance. Using a Never Used in an Over Used battle without some godawful pokepower or rain/sun setup, is just a wasted slot. : /
                                        Reply With Quote
                                          #20    
                                        Old April 21st, 2013 (9:13 PM).
                                        Naikado's Avatar
                                        Naikado Naikado is offline
                                           
                                          Join Date: Apr 2009
                                          Location: Here
                                          Gender: Male
                                          Nature: Adamant
                                          Posts: 142
                                          I'd like for it to become a viable option for non-cheaters to have more of a chance in the metagame, and maybe fix the GTS at least a little bit. Cheating really bugs me- I worked damn hard to get these pokemon to where they are, following the rules of the world (if breeding for IVs and EV-training count), while others got their pokemon at a mere fraction of the time in the best of cases, and nigh-instantly in the worst. I think they just plain don't deserve them, and they shouldn't be anywhere near my sight, much less on the other side of the playing field. Don't care whether or not they have them in their personal games, outside of online interaction, though.
                                          Reply With Quote
                                            #21    
                                          Old May 17th, 2013 (12:53 PM).
                                          Lazerith's Avatar
                                          Lazerith Lazerith is offline
                                             
                                            Join Date: May 2013
                                            Gender: Male
                                            Posts: 22
                                            I hope they do ban it. Either that, or make it so every Pokemon transferred from previous games starts off as an egg or at level 5.

                                            People tend to dislike my for not supporting pokesav/pokegen in online play, but I have always been someone who does competitive battling with Pokemon that I have actually raised myself from scratch. It takes a long time, yes, but hard work should be rewarded, and the problem with pokegen/pokesav pokemon in online battles is that they weren't the products of hard work, and the people using pokesav will generally have an advantage over people who actually breed and raise their pokemon(because it is very very hard to get perfect IV's).

                                            I have not enjoyed online battling as much as I could because of this. If people had to actually put in the effort to make good Pokemon, it would be a lot more fun for me, and good teams would be acknowledged much more.

                                            But that is how I feel.
                                            __________________
                                            Reply With Quote
                                              #22    
                                            Old May 17th, 2013 (1:04 PM).
                                            LycaNinja's Avatar
                                            LycaNinja LycaNinja is offline
                                            Werewolf Assassin
                                               
                                              Join Date: Sep 2010
                                              Age: 24
                                              Gender: Male
                                              Nature: Docile
                                              Posts: 232
                                              Cheaters will always find a way... Unless they make it so you cant trade Pokemon from previous games to this one (unless they have some way to scan them) then the cheaters will have to make a pokegen that works for 3DS... Which they will... Eventually...
                                              __________________


                                              Reply With Quote
                                                #23    
                                              Old May 17th, 2013 (1:07 PM).
                                              Lazerith's Avatar
                                              Lazerith Lazerith is offline
                                                 
                                                Join Date: May 2013
                                                Gender: Male
                                                Posts: 22
                                                Quote:
                                                Originally Posted by LycaNinja View Post
                                                Cheaters will always find a way... Unless they make it so you cant trade Pokemon from previous games to this one (unless they have some way to scan them) then the cheaters will have to make a pokegen that works for 3DS... Which they will... Eventually...
                                                Yeah they will eventually. But so far, there is no action replay for the 3DS, so we will be safe for a while.

                                                I'm okay with people using it to skip the breeding part, because it does take a very very long time to breed a Pokemon with really good IV's. But they should at least have the dignity to start from an egg and level up to 100 and do EV training theirselves.
                                                Reply With Quote
                                                  #24    
                                                Old May 23rd, 2013 (6:38 AM). Edited May 23rd, 2013 by White Raven.
                                                White Raven's Avatar
                                                White Raven White Raven is offline
                                                Working on The Mysterious Meteorite
                                                   
                                                  Join Date: Apr 2013
                                                  Age: 17
                                                  Gender: Female
                                                  Nature: Bold
                                                  Posts: 266
                                                  you do know there is a possibility that nintendo doesn't know about pokegen right?
                                                  besides, putting your love in pokemon is why the franchise makes these games. their not meant to be cheated on. an achievement can only be achieved by spending time on it. that was a quote from my grand ma. and probally others too
                                                  __________________
                                                  ^This is Dane Dehaan. He once cried eating a hamburger. He is Harry Osborn/The Green Goblin. He is Anna Woods'.^
                                                  Mandopop Lover since 2008
                                                  THE MYSTERIOUS METEORITE IS ON AN ISLAND OFF LAROUSSE CITY, OWNED BY MOI. THEREFORE, IT IS MY TRADEMARK
                                                  Reply With Quote
                                                    #25    
                                                  Old May 23rd, 2013 (6:48 AM).
                                                  Xander Olivieri's Avatar
                                                  Xander Olivieri Xander Olivieri is offline
                                                     
                                                    Join Date: Jun 2010
                                                    Gender: Other
                                                    Nature: Hasty
                                                    Posts: 5,601
                                                    Quote:
                                                    Originally Posted by Jeanne1571 View Post
                                                    you do know there is a possibility that nintendo doesn't know about pokegen right?
                                                    besides, putting your love in pokemon is why the franchise makes these games. their not meant to be cheated on. an achievement can only be achieved by spending time on it. that was a quote from my grand ma. and probally others too
                                                    They know about it. They used to do checks on them randomly in tournaments. Nintendo can usually tell if they are fake and a lot of their battle features catch created Pokemon. They are aware of all forms of Pokemon creation and GTS manipulation software and sites. They even know about Pokecheck.
                                                    __________________
                                                    Reply With Quote
                                                    Reply

                                                    Quick Reply

                                                    Join the conversation!

                                                    Create an account to post a reply in this thread, participate in other discussions, and more!

                                                    Create a PokéCommunity Account

                                                    Sponsored Links
                                                    Thread Tools

                                                    Posting Rules
                                                    You may not post new threads
                                                    You may not post replies
                                                    You may not post attachments
                                                    You may not edit your posts

                                                    BB code is On
                                                    Smilies are On
                                                    [IMG] code is On
                                                    HTML code is Off

                                                    Forum Jump


                                                    All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:23 AM.