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Does anyone else HATE Smogon?

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  #1    
Old June 3rd, 2013 (11:04 AM).
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    I hate that site, the idea that trainers don't learn, but just copy Pokemon and rehash ideas annoys me. I wish it didn't exist. I recently got back into Pokemon and found out about this site, but am very annoyed now because it sounds like Pokemon battles tend to surround Smogon and trainers run there for information instead of doing their own research. Does this annoy anyone else? Maybe this isn't appropriate for a post and possibly more-so of a rant that should be blogged, but it's just really annoying me how learning about Pokemon isn't found through rough experience, but through a site geared towards competitive battling.

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      #2    
    Old June 3rd, 2013 (11:27 AM).
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      ...You're joking, right?
      Smogon has plenty of guides to show you how to RNG, EV train, and learn about Pokemons' base stats/movepools and what they should be doing. It's like for Science class and you use a textbook. You don't go out and do field research for yourself, that's time-consuming and ridiculous because it's already been proven.
      And the posted sets are only suggested sets, most of the time the EVs/moves don't fit into your team. They give you a general idea, not exactly what you should be doing. Smogon themselves leave more options underneath the set to help you out to fit what you need.
      I'll just post a quote I feel is appropriate here. I don't remember the exact user, but it's a forum poster from Serebii:
      "Smogon isn't 'attacking your creativity'. They don't have elite forces of ninjas capturing you forcing you to use Scizor."
        #3    
      Old June 3rd, 2013 (1:33 PM).
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        I'm assuming you've been looking solely at Smogons pages for individual Pokemon. They have suggested movesets and so on.
        What you might not know is that Smogon is just trying to show you the most efficient sets for those Pokemon that they've experienced.
        Most of the website is designed to guide people to win competitive battles. No one is stopping you from being creative with your teams and sets. Smogon just offers educated suggestions if you'd like to compete.
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          #4    
        Old June 3rd, 2013 (5:10 PM). Edited June 3rd, 2013 by ProfGrove.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Miss Anne Thrope View Post
          I'm assuming you've been looking solely at Smogons pages for individual Pokemon. They have suggested movesets and so on.
          What you might not know is that Smogon is just trying to show you the most efficient sets for those Pokemon that they've experienced.
          Most of the website is designed to guide people to win competitive battles. No one is stopping you from being creative with your teams and sets. Smogon just offers educated suggestions if you'd like to compete.
          That's what I have been looking at and it annoys me. I tried to find problems with their moves and setups, but sadly most of them are pretty good. It's not like anyone needs Smogon to complete or learn about Pokemon. I mean, the site is entirely set up and striving for competitive information for which the Pokemon franchise and Nintendo don't provide, it just seems cheap. I like their charts and things, ways to break them down by stats and having the information there to learn about Pokemon, but the individual pages seem to annoy me with their moves and setups.

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Charblade111 View Post
          ...You're joking, right?
          Smogon has plenty of guides to show you how to RNG, EV train, and learn about Pokemons' base stats/movepools and what they should be doing. It's like for Science class and you use a textbook. You don't go out and do field research for yourself, that's time-consuming and ridiculous because it's already been proven.
          And the posted sets are only suggested sets, most of the time the EVs/moves don't fit into your team. They give you a general idea, not exactly what you should be doing. Smogon themselves leave more options underneath the set to help you out to fit what you need.
          I'll just post a quote I feel is appropriate here. I don't remember the exact user, but it's a forum poster from Serebii:
          "Smogon isn't 'attacking your creativity'. They don't have elite forces of ninjas capturing you forcing you to use Scizor."
          It's more-so like having a cheat sheet next to a science test, achieving nothing, but a copy/paste mentality.
            #5    
          Old June 3rd, 2013 (5:28 PM).
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            Hu-Whaaaat? I don't even battle competitively and I use Smogon because they have all the information I'm looking for about a Pokemon and it won't give me a virus. Sometimes I'll go on Bulbapedia and my malware blocker will alert me that my computer almost got infected. I don't know what the shniz is going on with that site. Smogon lists strategies for possible use, and if people follow them rigidly just to win I don't really mind, but doesn't that kind of suck the fun out of things? I'm using it to see which Pokemon can be found in the Dream World and which moves they can all learn so I can eventually build a unique team and go fight. I'd say Smogon is a pretty excellent resource.
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            Old June 3rd, 2013 (9:20 PM).
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            Since Smogon is mostly a battling site, aside from those RNG guides, I'm moving this over to Battle Center. Please bear in mind though, if you get too disrespectful of the site, this thread may get closed by someone else. We're not too keen on people posting hate about other sites, Pokemon or not. So just remember to keep everything civil. Now, off to Battle Center.
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              #7    
            Old June 3rd, 2013 (10:02 PM).
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            GenOneNostalgia GenOneNostalgia is offline
               
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              At first, I didn't agree with Smogon taking over the competitive battling field of pokemon either.. then I found myself watching Wi-fi battles on Youtube. The individiual sets/EV spreads, etc. that Smogon off mean nothing without using them to build a soild, well rounded team .. which is entirely dependent on the trainer and choosing 6 of the nearly 700 pokes available. It's a resource. Nothing more. Personally, I feel like being angry at Smogon for giving trainers a resource to allow anyone to competitively battle is like being mad at a Wiki or FAQ site for giving someone access to all the combined knowledge of the human race. Just because it's there, doesn't mean it needs to be used.. and often times, it isn't.
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                #8    
              Old June 3rd, 2013 (10:16 PM).
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              Even so, if you just use Smogon's movesets and read their guides, that doesn't mean that you've learned everything. Regardless of how much research you do, the real experience is going to come from actually battling. I find Smogon very useful, even though I'm not a part of the actual community. Smogon is a nice resource because it provides movesets and tier listings and all sorts of other goodies. Personally, I would not want to "do my own research" if I'm just going to come to the same conclusion Smogon would, it's a waste of time.

              I don't have a problem with the competitive side of Pokemon being centered around Smogon's tiers. This is because all the Pokemon are placed in specific tiers for a reason, so at least there's some sort of balance and it all seems to make sense.

              edit: I'm not sure if you're talking about competitive Pokemon being centered around Smogon, or how Smogon relates to just Pokemon in general? I'm not sure how you could compare Smogon's movesets to just Pokemon in general because Smogon is only about competitive battling...
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                #9    
              Old June 3rd, 2013 (11:49 PM).
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                Not really, Smogon provides a wealth of knowledge and a strong player base who actually know what they are doing.

                Hating it would be likened to hating Wikipedia for having information, it's competitive Pokemon not "Charizard Fire Blast/Ember/Blastburn/Flamethrower MAX POWAH". If you want to use your creative sets, then by all means go for it.
                  #10    
                Old June 3rd, 2013 (11:51 PM).
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                I mostly use Smogon as a reference, not a defined set of Pokemon I have to use if I want to win. And even if you do just take everything straight from Smogon, it doesn't make any difference if you don't know how to use your team properly, or choose the right mons to compliment each other. It still comes down to whether the person will learn from his mistakes or repeat them. It's not just a mechanical game whereby you choose certain sets and use them to hope you win. You still need skill.
                  #11    
                Old June 4th, 2013 (6:07 AM).
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                Smogon is not an be-all, end-all thing by any means. Ask any high ranking player and they'll tell you that they use Smogon as a reference or guide or something but often have to adjust their teams to fix individual team weaknesses that Smogon does not reference. Anyway, it helps prevent people fresh into competitive from making mistakes such as using Choice Scarf Jellicent or a Special Attack Skarmory and terribly souring their experience.
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                  #12    
                Old June 4th, 2013 (6:21 AM).
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                Going with what everyone else said, I agree that Smogon is an excellent resource for competitive battling information. As for the Pokémon's move sets, they're usually the most efficient way to use that particular Pokémon, and are a good starting point for making teams.
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                  #13    
                Old June 4th, 2013 (7:01 AM).
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                ProfGrove ProfGrove is offline
                   
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                  Hm, thank you for the replies. I may need to reassess my feelings about Smogon.
                    #14    
                  Old June 4th, 2013 (7:37 AM).
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                  I think it's a necessary resource or competitive battling would be ridiculously more inaccessible than it already is. As pretty much everyone else has said sticking rigidly to their sets won't guarantee success you then need to learn which modifications you should be making to win. Without the site, I wouldn't even know half of the knowledge required to attempt competitive battling.

                  Even now, it's occasionally good to use as a platform for a team idea which you build upon yourself. They have a few guides separate from competitive battling which I find interesting as well. I understand your reasons for disliking it, but from your stance it seems as if you should be one of the more educated pokemon players who contributes to the site.

                  That said they'll annoy me if they don't fix the site soon, it's been down for like a week. :(
                    #15    
                  Old June 4th, 2013 (11:29 PM).
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                  Smogon is not terrible at all, in fact it's the go-to place for getting knowledge on competitive battling, especially if you're new to competitive play in general. It's much more fast and fierce compared to in-game play. Basically, ask any serious competitive battler what the best guide is and they'd probably say Smogon.

                  The guides Smogon provides are great, such as the recommended natures, items, abilities, EV spreads and movesets for the Pokemon you want to use. It basically exists to ensure you make the best of a Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses, as well as a guide to all the tiers in the metagame, so you know which Pokemon performs better and what doesn't. Basically you wouldn't want to use an all-Fire moveset on your Charizard eh? Because the key to building a successful team is understanding all the strengths and weaknesses, as well as what job that Pokemon is best at doing. Some are great as walls, while others are more fragile but fast sweepers.

                  As the others said, Smogon has everything you need to know, and studying every Pokemon so you know what their most efficient role is is important when it comes to team building.
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                    #16    
                  Old June 5th, 2013 (2:19 AM).
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                  Smogon as a battling site is great for beginners in singles. It's not for doubles, whatsoever. Although they have VGC analysis, they aren't good, really. Doubles need more synergy thus you need to match pokemon-teammates better. In singles you can use Smogon sets and put a picture together from their puzzles, but it's impossible for doubles.

                  Smogon as a community is very unfirendly. I'm pretty sure that was the reason of current DDOS attack they had.

                  When it comes to all kind of guides, they're good, but oftentimes the language they're using is confusing even for native speakers. Their RNG guides for example, are also outdated and if you want proper ones, you have to browse the forums which are maze-like.

                  Personally, I don't hate Smogon, I appreciate its existence, I learned a lot there, but I don't need the site anymore as a site. As a user, I was more of a lurker and found it very exclusive (in a bad way) and unfriendly.
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                  Old June 7th, 2013 (11:13 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Snowdrop View Post
                    Hu-Whaaaat? I don't even battle competitively and I use Smogon because they have all the information I'm looking for about a Pokemon and it won't give me a virus. Sometimes I'll go on Bulbapedia and my malware blocker will alert me that my computer almost got infected. I don't know what the shniz is going on with that site. Smogon lists strategies for possible use, and if people follow them rigidly just to win I don't really mind, but doesn't that kind of suck the fun out of things? I'm using it to see which Pokemon can be found in the Dream World and which moves they can all learn so I can eventually build a unique team and go fight. I'd say Smogon is a pretty excellent resource.
                    That is really weird, I go on that website with no problems and i think most people would agree.
                      #18    
                    Old June 7th, 2013 (11:42 AM).
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                      I use smogan but I dont use their suggested team members. I like to play around and see what works well. Still doin it. I got some pieces but not all of them. I also taking battles Ive done and take pieces from that and use them on my team
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                        #19    
                      Old June 7th, 2013 (10:30 PM).
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                        I dont have a problem with smogon, i also dont have a problem with people who dislike smogon. My problem is with the people who argue and argue in support of smogon saying "its just a guideline its just giving tips and nothing is wrong with it. They help you build a team not force a team on you.", but then those same people get on other topics and pretty much want to quarantine anyone who uses an external device to make legitimate legal pokemon. The theory is the same, your getting the same result - just quicker. And just because you have the perfect pokemon with great IVs and the resources from smogon doesnt make you an instant battling champion.
                         
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