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  #26    
Old June 15th, 2013 (8:24 AM).
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Esper Esper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenneking View Post
Essentially, a woman can make a living by producing children.
I think you've got a skewed perception here. All the people I know who have kids have had a harder time getting by because of it. Kids are expensive. Even before they're born you have to buy lots of baby supplies, make lots of doctor's visits, take time off work, pay for tests, and potentially stay in the hospital for a while before the kid is born. One of my friends is in debt because of having two kids. The help she gets just takes some of the bills away, but not all of them, and whatever else she gets in assistance doesn't cover all the other expenses like rent and food and gas for the car, etc.
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  #27    
Old June 15th, 2013 (8:51 AM).
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Powerserge Powerserge is offline
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    Yup...kids really aren't worth it. I can't wrap my head around the sentiment needed to have them.

    I'd have no problem telling a country that they can't have more than 2 kids a couple, and enforcing the heck out of it. It's the 21st century; privacy and individual freedoms are just idealistic novelties at this point, haha. And our planet really doesn't need the extra strain of all those extra mouths to feed, especially since the countries with booming birthrates can't even support those kids' basic needs.
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      #28    
    Old June 15th, 2013 (11:37 AM).
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    Entermaid Entermaid is offline
       
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
      I think you've got a skewed perception here. All the people I know who have kids have had a harder time getting by because of it. Kids are expensive. Even before they're born you have to buy lots of baby supplies, make lots of doctor's visits, take time off work, pay for tests, and potentially stay in the hospital for a while before the kid is born. One of my friends is in debt because of having two kids. The help she gets just takes some of the bills away, but not all of them, and whatever else she gets in assistance doesn't cover all the other expenses like rent and food and gas for the car, etc.
      No one is going to either recognize or admit how much assistance they receive from welfare. These anecdotes are highly subjective in nature. There are just as many stories on the other side that indicate welfare recipients with plasma screen tv's and new vehicles. It is best to look at the data rather than anecdotes.

      "the number of households with incomes below the poverty line, the average spending per household in poverty was $61,194 in 2011...If the spending on these programs were converted into cash, and distributed exclusively to the nation’s households below the poverty line, this cash amount would be over 2.5 times the federal poverty threshold for a family of four, which in 2011 was $22,350 ," - Senate Budget Committee note.

      For those who don't work, they can receive free health benefits, state/federal welfare, food assistance, housing assistance, free higher education for children, tax-breaks, among other benefits. Many welfare recipients are better off financially than those who do not receive welfare. Thus, given that one is SUBSTANTIALLY more likely to receive such benefits with children without acquiring or seeking a job, it incentivizes having children without seeking employment.
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        #29    
      Old June 16th, 2013 (10:07 AM).
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      Esper Esper is offline
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fenneking View Post
      No one is going to either recognize or admit how much assistance they receive from welfare. These anecdotes are highly subjective in nature. There are just as many stories on the other side that indicate welfare recipients with plasma screen tv's and new vehicles. It is best to look at the data rather than anecdotes.
      Are there? Or are there just the same stories repeated more often because they seem more outrageous to people? Or are they made up? How many people who are poor, on welfare, say in their own words how good they have it? It always seems like the stories about people living up in welfare are told by other people complaining about them.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fenneking View Post
      "the number of households with incomes below the poverty line, the average spending per household in poverty was $61,194 in 2011...If the spending on these programs were converted into cash, and distributed exclusively to the nation’s households below the poverty line, this cash amount would be over 2.5 times the federal poverty threshold for a family of four, which in 2011 was $22,350 ," - Senate Budget Committee note.
      I'd like to know who said this, and when, and what the rest of the quote this was taken from is.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Fenneking View Post
      Many welfare recipients are better off financially than those who do not receive welfare.
      I flat out don't believe you. Or at least I don't believe what you're implying from this. I'm sure there are token cases of people being better off, but for the majority I don't believe it is true.
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        #30    
      Old June 16th, 2013 (10:20 AM).
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        I personally don't think there should exist a limit to how many children a couple should produce but I do believe we need to start making people a little more aware that having a lot of children = lot of stress...

        It's been scientifically proven that in the recent years, couples with lower IQ's have more children than couples with higher IQ's. It's a fact, you can search it up. (Look I'm not saying big families are stupid, it's just a %)

        I think parents should know when to stop procreating, it's not just about the money, it's about the quality of their life, you are not talking about cattle that'll be chopped up eventually, kids are a piece of work. You need to treat them all, teach them all, clothe them all, feed them all, play with them all and if a person is already in it's limit with the current number of children, they have to start using condoms ASAP. Your kids might have to take care of you in the future, I think it's wise to remember that, if you treat them like **** through their childhood, I hope you have no problems living at an old people's home.
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          #31    
        Old June 16th, 2013 (11:13 AM). Edited June 16th, 2013 by mudkipbubbles.
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        mudkipbubbles mudkipbubbles is offline
           
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          I think you should have has many kids as your heart desires, so long as you can financially and emotionally sustain them. I mean, if you are a low income family who wants more than two kids (let's say an outrageous number like five or something - more than the normal children you find in a family household), I would make some changes in your desires, so your child doesn't have to live a "poverty-stricken" or "low-income" family life. Coming from a family who has enough money to survive (barely), I believe you should have as many kids as your wallet and heart allows you to. Also, over population is a concern in other nations and countries outside of the United States, which could move over to the US in the future, making the US over-populated also. Even though I highly doubt that the US will get over populated, it is a smart idea to have no more than two kids a household for awhile. Or you should not have more children than there are parents (single parent: one child; two parents: two children or less). While the US is in a economic strain, I think we should all have children responsibly.

          But there should not be a limit or restriction on how many children you have. If you want the kids, no matter how rich or poor you are, it's not my decision to make. Right? and, usually, whenever you restrict someone from doing anything, it ultimately makes them want to do it more often.

          I also think they should give out birth control products (for both males and females - like birth control pills/shots or condoms, for guys) for free so we can all have sex responsibly.
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            #32    
          Old June 16th, 2013 (8:02 PM).
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          If you're financially or mentally incapable of supporting another child, you should be required to put it up for adoption. I oppose any further restrictions than that, however. I also staunchly oppose restrictions on abortion because, among other reasons, I do not believe a woman should have to suffer through a childbirth they do not desire.
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