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  #251    
Old June 19th, 2013 (5:05 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pedrito3_poke View Post
    Maybe we have been misinterpreted it.
    Dual Type means 2 types. For and attack to be dual type it would have to be two types. Its not a misinterpretation. There are already moves that change element upon circumstances in the games. Nature Power, Nature's Gift, Secret Power, and Hidden Power. These are all classified as Normal attacks that can deal different typed Damage. The Damage type is what indicated STAB and Weakness/resistance so a Normal Pokemon using the attacks never get STAB or the attacks never get resisted or blocked by Normal Type's Resistance and Immunity checks despite them being Normal typed.

    They are however not Dual Typed attacks.
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      #252    
    Old June 19th, 2013 (5:13 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
      Dual Type means 2 types. For and attack to be dual type it would have to be two types. Its not a misinterpretation. There are already moves that change element upon circumstances in the games. Nature Power, Nature's Gift, Secret Power, and Hidden Power. These are all classified as Normal attacks that can deal different typed Damage. The Damage type is what indicated STAB and Weakness/resistance so a Normal Pokemon using the attacks never get STAB or the attacks never get resisted or blocked by Normal Type's Resistance and Immunity checks despite them being Normal typed.

      They are however not Dual Typed attacks.
      Yeah, I just posted what PokéBeach said about this, and I'll agree with you on this one.
      I don't think we've misinterpreted it, nor do I think that dual-typed moves will exist, so I think he got this one wrong.
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        #253    
      Old June 19th, 2013 (6:04 PM).
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      Dual-type moves are highly unnecessary and as I personally see it, they don't really need to be added as I feel it would just make things more complicated in the long run. Competitively, I don't think it would really do much good to have them, either. But I'm at least happy there's a very slim chance of this occurring, if anything.
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        #254    
      Old June 20th, 2013 (1:02 AM).
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        I feel like people are somewhat exaggerating how complicated dual type moves would be. It would take some getting used to for sure but I doubt people would be scratching their heads over it.

        The difficulty in understanding it could depend on one thing though:

        1. If you have a Water/Electric move, are the types independent of each other? (i.e is it super effective against Fire, Rock, Ground and Flying?)
        2. Or do the types combine into one pseudo type? (i.e is it super effective against Fire, Rock, Flying but has no effect on Ground?)

        If it's the first one I figure it's a lot simpler to understand, you're just appending the effectiveness of two types together rather than the latter which is adding them together.
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          #255    
        Old June 20th, 2013 (1:02 AM).
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        Yeah, I'm not too much of a fan of dual-typing moves. I think that'd be an overcomplication more than anything.
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          #256    
        Old June 20th, 2013 (2:34 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 View Post
        I feel like people are somewhat exaggerating how complicated dual type moves would be. It would take some getting used to for sure but I doubt people would be scratching their heads over it.

        The difficulty in understanding it could depend on one thing though:

        1. If you have a Water/Electric move, are the types independent of each other? (i.e is it super effective against Fire, Rock, Ground and Flying?)
        2. Or do the types combine into one pseudo type? (i.e is it super effective against Fire, Rock, Flying but has no effect on Ground?)

        If it's the first one I figure it's a lot simpler to understand, you're just appending the effectiveness of two types together rather than the latter which is adding them together.
        I disagree, and I feel like you're kind of simplifying something that shouldn't be simplified in the first place. Having dual-type moves would more or less significantly altar competitive play, as the types that were once known to be super-effective against others might not be super-effective anymore after gaining an additional type.

        For example...Freeze Shock. An Ice move that had the potential to paralyze. What if it gained Electric has a second type, due to this? Now all of a sudden, you have a move that's completely walled by every single ground-type imaginable, and the move that was once considered super-effective now no longer has any effect whatsoever on the type that it's supposed to be super effective against.

        And Scald. Would it have Water/Fire because of it's chance to burn? It's such a useful move in competitive play, but can Fire-types freely switch into scald without any fear of it causing super-effective damage? Would Heatran freely switch into Scald and get a free flash fire boost?

        The point being from all of this is...if dual-type moves were to exist (and assuming that the aforementioned moves get an additional typing), it would make things unnecessarily complicated, and why? Why is there a necessity for dual-type moves, I don't see anything wrong with our moves being single-typed in any way, so why is it needed? Especially if future dual-type moves get introduced, what's going to happen then? It'll just be a mess of dual-type moves that aren't needed in the first place, nor do I think are they going to be needed anytime in the future. .___.;;
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          #257    
        Old June 20th, 2013 (11:08 AM).
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          Well, as I've said before, even if dual-type moves were to be introduced, I doubt it would be as complicated as most people seem to think. Don't forget that Pokémon games' main target are kids, so they wouldn't introduce such a complicated mechanism in a kids game.
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            #258    
          Old June 20th, 2013 (2:11 PM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by pedrito3_poke View Post
            Well, as I've said before, even if dual-type moves were to be introduced, I doubt it would be as complicated as most people seem to think. Don't forget that Pokémon games' main target are kids, so they wouldn't introduce such a complicated mechanism in a kids game.
            There are many complicated mechanics in the Pokemon game that deal with battle. Hidden Power, IVs, EVs. They are all complicated and hidden systems of the game that general players do not even bother with because of the difficulty and effort. Its used for the more experienced battle veterans.

            Pokemon is a kids' game, but that doesn't mean that complicated systems are not in the games. Majority of children that play don't learn about EV training until a few years after.

            It would be that complicated if introduced and would cause a large amount of trouble. Though its already been shown that there isn't room for second type buttons to appear on an attack's information page. Only thing they can do now is coded effects like Hidden Power, Natural Gift, Nature Power and Secret Power. Which would mean that they would not be Dual Typed attacks.
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              #259    
            Old June 20th, 2013 (2:22 PM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
              I disagree, and I feel like you're kind of simplifying something that shouldn't be simplified in the first place. Having dual-type moves would more or less significantly altar competitive play, as the types that were once known to be super-effective against others might not be super-effective anymore after gaining an additional type.

              For example...Freeze Shock. An Ice move that had the potential to paralyze. What if it gained Electric has a second type, due to this? Now all of a sudden, you have a move that's completely walled by every single ground-type imaginable, and the move that was once considered super-effective now no longer has any effect whatsoever on the type that it's supposed to be super effective against.

              And Scald. Would it have Water/Fire because of it's chance to burn? It's such a useful move in competitive play, but can Fire-types freely switch into scald without any fear of it causing super-effective damage? Would Heatran freely switch into Scald and get a free flash fire boost?

              The point being from all of this is...if dual-type moves were to exist (and assuming that the aforementioned moves get an additional typing), it would make things unnecessarily complicated, and why? Why is there a necessity for dual-type moves, I don't see anything wrong with our moves being single-typed in any way, so why is it needed? Especially if future dual-type moves get introduced, what's going to happen then? It'll just be a mess of dual-type moves that aren't needed in the first place, nor do I think are they going to be needed anytime in the future. .___.;;
              You didn't really read what I said. What you said only accounts for number 2 on my list of possibilities.

              What I'm talking about in possibility number 1 is that if you have a Water/Electric dual type move, if a dual type attack means combining the effect of each type into one turn (rather than two seperate turns)....

              So a Water/Electric type attack would hit a Ground type pokemon super effectively because of the Water part of the attack rather than the Electric part.

              For all we know a dual type attack could just be two attacks of different types occurring in the same turn. So first up you have the water damage...and then the electric damage follows. Like using doubleslap where each individual slap is a different type.

              We don't know how dual types will work right now. So at this point it's just a guessing game.
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                #260    
              Old June 20th, 2013 (3:03 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
                There are many complicated mechanics in the Pokemon game that deal with battle. Hidden Power, IVs, EVs. They are all complicated and hidden systems of the game that general players do not even bother with because of the difficulty and effort. Its used for the more experienced battle veterans.

                Pokemon is a kids' game, but that doesn't mean that complicated systems are not in the games. Majority of children that play don't learn about EV training until a few years after.

                It would be that complicated if introduced and would cause a large amount of trouble. Though its already been shown that there isn't room for second type buttons to appear on an attack's information page. Only thing they can do now is coded effects like Hidden Power, Natural Gift, Nature Power and Secret Power. Which would mean that they would not be Dual Typed attacks.
                I'm well aware of those complicated algorithms behind Pokémon battles. But, as you said, those are more like hidden systems that we wouldn't even be aware of just by playing Pokémon games. We only know about them because, at some point, we wanted to know a little more about how the game works, so we searched about that stuff in the internet.

                If we don't care about knowing all that stuff, we can still play Pokémon and be pretty good at it. We just have to know type advantages and abilities (or maybe just type advantages will do the job). So, Pokémon games, in a superficial view, are pretty basic and easy to understand. Even EVs are pretty basic imo.

                So what I meant was that they wouldn't introduce anything complicated to the more superficial part of the game, the part that everyone who plays has to deal with and understand, which would include dual-typed moves.
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                  #261    
                Old June 20th, 2013 (6:49 PM).
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                  Dual Type attacks add nothing to the game. The whole point of have 4 moves is to limit the number of super-effective attacks you can do. The only thing Dual-Type Attacks can do is net more SE hits. It would defeat the purpose of having a move-set. At that point you might as well have Pokemon learn 6 moves or more.

                  Limiting a pokemon to 4 moves is a Good thing. It make each individual Pikachu unique as well as keeping the menus free of clutter. And it encourages more strategic choice of which moves to keep.

                  If you have played FF, WOW, or other RPGs you know this: There are 1-2 spells you spam, and a laundry list of 45 other spells you never use. Pokemon solves this problem. "Pick the 4 moves you want, the rest are garbage."

                  Dual Type Attacks are just poor game design that limits the number of creative choices the player can make.
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                    #262    
                  Old June 20th, 2013 (6:57 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Sabrewulf238 View Post
                  You didn't really read what I said. What you said only accounts for number 2 on my list of possibilities.

                  What I'm talking about in possibility number 1 is that if you have a Water/Electric dual type move, if a dual type attack means combining the effect of each type into one turn (rather than two seperate turns)....

                  So a Water/Electric type attack would hit a Ground type pokemon super effectively because of the Water part of the attack rather than the Electric part.

                  For all we know a dual type attack could just be two attacks of different types occurring in the same turn. So first up you have the water damage...and then the electric damage follows. Like using doubleslap where each individual slap is a different type.

                  We don't know how dual types will work right now. So at this point it's just a guessing game.
                  So all of a sudden you're suggesting that the Water/Electric type moves ignore the immunity that Ground types have and strike them anyway? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever, which is precisely what I highlighted in my post. That's like saying, if a move (let's make an example out of Shadow Punch) were to be Ghost/Fighting, and it'll allow it to strike ghosts anyway for super-effective. What about the Fighting part? You've never really covered that in your post, it can't just be ignored, iirc.

                  ...Even as we continue to debate this, this is precisely why I disagree with dual-types because it'll just add unnecessary clutter to battles, no more no less. The mechanics behind them would just be too mind-boggling and it's something I personally would rather be without.
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                    #263    
                  Old June 20th, 2013 (7:06 PM).
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                      #264    
                    Old June 20th, 2013 (7:24 PM). Edited June 20th, 2013 by pedrito3_poke.
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                      Even if dual-typed moves were to introduced I don't think they would work like Sabrewulf238 explained.

                      I think it would simply be about fusing the two types in one attack, just like we fuse the two types' weaknesses/resistances in dual-typed Pokémon. For example:
                      Fighting moves are SE against: Normal, Ice, Rock, Dark, Steel
                      Fighting moves are NVE against: Poison, Flying, Psychic, Bug
                      Fighting moves have no effect on: Ghost
                      Ghost moves are SE against: Psychic, Ghost
                      Ghost moves are NVE against: Dark, Steel
                      Ghost moves have no effect on: Normal

                      So, a Fighting/Ghost move like Shadow Punch would:
                      be SE against: Ice, Rock
                      be NVE against: Poison, Flying, Psychic, Bug
                      have no effect on: Normal, Ghost

                      And Freeze Shock would:
                      be SE against: Flying (x4)
                      be NVE against: Fire, Ice, Steel
                      have no effect on: Ground

                      I've always agreed that some moves would make more sense if they were dual-typed, but imo this would make the game too complicated. It would just take too much time for one to calculate the effect that the attack would have in the opponent. Still, this would only be applied to a few attacks, so you wouldn't be forced to use it.

                      Also, about the lack of room for second type buttons to appear on an attack's information page, I don't think that's an obstacle if they want to make dual-typed moved. A single typed move would be like and a dual typed move would be like .
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                        #265    
                      Old June 20th, 2013 (10:00 PM).
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                        I totally agree with pedrito3_poke here. The lack of an extra type box can.be easily put to half. Good thoughts!
                        But what if the Water/Electric move has a side effect in which it is SE against Flying type? That must be it and we have our answer now if you tell me.
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                          #266    
                        Old June 20th, 2013 (10:15 PM).
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                          i think you all misunderstood what dual-typed attacks are, this is pokebeach' explanation-
                          "Many people are interpreting this as an attack shooting out two types at once, but it could just be that the attack switches types under certain conditions or something like that"
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                            #267    
                          Old June 20th, 2013 (11:05 PM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by metalhand View Post
                          "Many people are interpreting this as an attack shooting out two types at once, but it could just be that the attack switches types under certain conditions or something like that"
                          Now this would make some kind of sense. I really don't like the other option, as it would complicate things too much imo
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                            #268    
                          Old June 21st, 2013 (4:28 AM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by metalhand View Post
                            i think you all misunderstood what dual-typed attacks are, this is pokebeach' explanation-
                            "Many people are interpreting this as an attack shooting out two types at once, but it could just be that the attack switches types under certain conditions or something like that"
                            I had already mentioned that:
                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by pedrito3_poke View Post
                            Maybe we have been misinterpreting it.
                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by PokéBeach
                            A few attacks will be dual-typed. (WPM Note: Many people are interpreting this as an attack shooting out two types at once, but it could just be that the attack switches types under certain conditions or something like that.)
                            Still, I don't think we misunderstood it. Those are not called dual-typed moves, so the leaker either got it wrong, or he was right and there will actually be dual-typed moves.
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                              #269    
                            Old June 21st, 2013 (8:50 AM).
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                              If I remember correctly, the guy we think is the source of this posted somewhere else saying that WPM calling the moves "dual-typed" was misleading- he was actually referring to moves that were listed as and took STAB from one type but that have the relations of another type. So like Psyshock, but with types.
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                                #270    
                              Old June 26th, 2013 (7:06 AM).
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                                The thing is i found a website yesterday on youtube about beta testing. Is Nintendo beta testing the pokemon x and y ?
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                                  #271    
                                Old June 26th, 2013 (8:06 AM).
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                                  Dsxcris, that looks like a virus downloader to me... It doesn't look as if it were officially made by Nintendo and if it were a beta, there'd be videos of the guy playing and not the guy explaining how to get it IMO.

                                  If anyone downloads it, make sure you have a strong antivirus and be prepared for the worst case scenario haha.
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                                    #272    
                                  Old June 26th, 2013 (10:17 AM).
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                                  The thing is i found a website yesterday on youtube about beta testing. Is Nintendo beta testing the pokemon x and y ?
                                  Hell no. I'm 99% sure that is a virus. Beta tests like that are something you see for MMO's, not 3DS games. I don't even think a legit 3DS emulator even exists right now in the first place.
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                                    #273    
                                  Old June 26th, 2013 (1:38 PM).
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                                    If you see a website offering a beta of Pokemon X & Y to download to your computer there shouldn't be any question about whether it's legitimate or not.
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                                      #274    
                                    Old June 26th, 2013 (2:37 PM).
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                                      Quote:
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                                      Hell no. I'm 99% sure that is a virus. Beta tests like that are something you see for MMO's, not 3DS games. I don't even think a legit 3DS emulator even exists right now in the first place.
                                      That's right, no 3DS emulator is available as of the moment. And yes I'm also 99.99 percent sure it's a virus.
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                                        #275    
                                      Old June 28th, 2013 (12:25 PM).
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                                        I've just thought of another rumor. Will there ever be an outdoor Pokemon Center? I just wish that I could fly to another town immediately after I heal my Pokemon rather than having to run all the way out of the Center before doing so.
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