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  #26    
Old June 27th, 2013 (3:59 AM).
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I don't think it's racist at all to "continue calling black people black, white people white, Asians Asian, Latino's Latino etc"... by any measure. It's oversensitized, imo, to say there's a problem there. You could call someone black in a room full of black people and nothing would happen. If you called someone black in a room full of overzealous white folk, then maybe there might be different. But if you're reasonable, there's no reason for you not to make that judgement call.

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  #27    
Old June 29th, 2013 (2:30 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
    I don't think it's racist at all to "continue calling black people black, white people white, Asians Asian, Latino's Latino etc"... by any measure. It's oversensitized, imo, to say there's a problem there. You could call someone black in a room full of black people and nothing would happen. If you called someone black in a room full of overzealous white folk, then maybe there might be different. But if you're reasonable, there's no reason for you not to make that judgement call.

    Thank you, I wish people weren't so sensitive. It's really infuriating because a spade isn't going to get offended when you call it a spade.

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      #28    
    Old June 29th, 2013 (2:04 PM). Edited June 29th, 2013 by Entermaid.
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
      I don't think it's racist at all to "continue calling black people black, white people white, Asians Asian, Latino's Latino etc"... by any measure. It's oversensitized, imo, to say there's a problem there. You could call someone black in a room full of black people and nothing would happen. If you called someone black in a room full of overzealous white folk, then maybe there might be different. But if you're reasonable, there's no reason for you not to make that judgement call.

      Actually, I will take this one step further.

      In a casual situation, such as a dinner party, I would say it is more appropriate to refer to ethnic lines using terminology such as black, white, Hispanic, ect. My black friends feel awkward when someone refers to blacks as African Americans, it's equally vexing as referring to white people as Caucasian Americans. Most people are more comfortable around the the terminology above rather than the latter. Plus, I know several minorities from other countries, and they don't really appreciate being called an African American, when they are Black Dominicans, ect. The fusion of nationality and race as the standard for political correctness is quite convoluted. Rather, when specifically referring to black in America, it is better to use terms such as Black Americans, rather than focusing so much on the origins which might not be entirely accurate, convolutes, and classifies someone based on historical basis rather than contemporary circumstances. Essentially, simple terminology is often more clear, and less likely to create tension or confusion.

      Beyond inconsistencies amid language that is often termed politically correct, terminology often referred to as racist is also a concern. For instance, when Dave Chapelle or Chris Rock states cracker or n-word(see, I have to sanitize the later or I would be given an infraction!), it is no big deal. And it shouldn't. During stand-up comedy or around a group of friends, you can use these words, and essentially joking around about racial relations rather than being racist. I am sure neither of the listed comedians hates white people. However, seldom will you hear a white comedian utilize the n-word in their routines. If employed, these comedians will be vilified as a racist. Now, if a politician states, "those n-word are always starting trouble...", then it is obviously racist. The word itself doesn't establish political incorrectness, it is the context, who says it, how they say it, and for what purpose.

      The group I see the most condemnation for political incorrectness is the LGBT community, probably because there exists the most political incorrectness and hostility toward the group, but this, in turn has created the everything-is-a-hate-crime complex. Meaning, when reaction to political incorrectness is magnified beyond the extent of the words incited, or situations in which political incorrectness is not explicitly employed based on the context is responded to as politically incorrect. Also, there develops a hatred and fear of others based on race, sexuality, ect. as they attribute those groups and members as being involved in their own injustices. Thus, creating more racism and tensions between LGBT and non-LGBT people.

      One of my gay friends started ranting to me about how one the classes were full of a bunch of homophobes because most of them voted for Romney for president. I see this ALOT in the LGBT community, hetero-phobia, in which their is a strong distrust and apprehension of the "breeders" and their churches. The funny thing is that the vast majority of the conservatives and religiously devote members in my classes are pro gay marriage or domestic partnerships, my friend was new to the school, and made a judgement based off political-affiliation and religious affiliation rather than getting to know the student body. To castigate someone on their religious affiliation/poli ID is reckless given that it's about a 50%+ chance they support gay marriage or domestic partnerships if they attend church or are a college republican. Now, criticism of a church or the church leadership is completely different given the leadership roles and thus can be given scrutiny, and often people are unfairly attributed based off the behaviors of a select few within their membership rather than the individual's behaviors. I have exactly two friends that are Mormons, one supports gay marriage, the other domestic partnerships, but not vehemently opposed to gay marriage.

      Another example, this relates to race. In my class, we were doing a word association survey. The topic was Detroit. A few responses were "Crime", "poverty" and "black", separately. One girl stood up and started ranting that the class was a bunch of spoiled white racists, when in fact, Detroit has one of the highest crime rates, poverty rates, the largest black population in the Michigan STATISTICALLY. An outburst like this is a rare observance in a university setting, but there still exists this reaction from people who have faced adversity based on their race or sexuality to condemn political incorrectness even when it doesn't exist. In fact, the only one who was racist in the situation was the girl. She essentially became a racists from her adversity, and despite her hardships is responsible for respecting other people; her disruption of the class afterward had created an atmosphere in which the class felt like they needed to speak in code when really, the issues we discuss must be discussed in a direct manner. Statistics are important in identifying problems with race in America. If it is stated that blacks are much much much more likely to be arrested and charged for a drug offense, it is an important piece of information to address rather than an offensive statement.

      Well that is a bit on how proclaiming something as politically incorrect has negative implications, dare I say, politically incorrect implications. Minority and majority groups alike need to respect the bounds of their rhetoric and actions based on circumstances, and afford everyone a benefit of a doubt before castigating a person based off attribution.

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        #29    
      Old June 29th, 2013 (7:19 PM).
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        @Fenneking: Everything you just said, forever.

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          #30    
        Old June 29th, 2013 (8:34 PM).
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        I think you should say what you mean and mean what you say.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Fenneking View Post
        In a casual situation, such as a dinner party, I would say it is more appropriate to refer to ethnic lines using terminology such as black, white, Hispanic, ect. My black friends feel awkward when someone refers to blacks as African Americans, it's equally vexing as referring to white people as Caucasian Americans.
        I don't know why African American has come to mean "black". Leaves out, for example, Jamaicans.

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          #31    
        Old June 29th, 2013 (8:38 PM).
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        It's funny, I don't consider Jamaicans (or other Caribbean people) or Africans to be "black". To me, to be black is like being "just white", when your family has been somewhere several generations and you're not really in touch with your cultural roots anymore. I remember in camp one day I asked a dude where his background is from. He didn't know and said "I'm just white" XD

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          #32    
        Old July 15th, 2013 (5:59 PM). Edited July 15th, 2013 by Toutebelle.
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          I think political correctness is ridiculous.. Especially because it actually marginalizes minorities by assuming that they want to be thought of as completely different instead of wanting to be treated like everyone else.

          And opposing construction of a mosque...wouldn't it be easier for Muslims to have a mosque in their own town than to drive several towns away to go to one? If anything, I support the construction of more mosques. If people are so concerned with them replacing churches, then why don't they actually go once in a while? (Needless to say, not all Muslims attend services regularly - people seem to forget that non-practicing Muslims do exist - but they should have mosques for the ones who are religious.)

          Political correctness can affect kids' media too. Seriously, kids are not going to care if there's no important minority characters on a show. Many Disney movies, such as Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast, feature all-white casts, but minority kids still watch them. You don't need to stick a black character in a place where it would be implausible (i.e. medieval Europe. Ironically, it would be plausible in the medieval Muslim world, as black slaves were numerous in countries like Egypt and Morocco. Crusaders might have even seen some when visiting the Middle East).

          Politically correct history is bad too. Mel Gibson's The Patriot ignored the mistreatment of black slaves. It is true that some white masters treated their slaves decently (why else would so many former slaves take their masters' surnames?), but for every reasonable master, there was another that was cruel and horrible. Also present is whitewashing American historical figures who clearly did unsavory things, like Thomas Jefferson. Not only did he own slaves, but fathered several children with one - and she was only 17 or 18 at the start of their relationship while he was in his late forties. (What's especially ironic is that Mel Gibson ISN'T politically correct for the most part. His anti-English and anti-Semitic attitudes are pretty blatant.)

          I find the term "Caucasian" to refer to white people laughable. I am not Chechen or Georgian or any other ethnic group from the Caucasus. Plus people there do not look stereotypically white - they are usually olive-skinned with thick, dark hair. In fact, Russians refer to them as "black" because their dark-colored hair contrasts with the light-colored hair of the Russians who live in places like Moscow and St. Petersburg. (Though I am indeed olive-skinned and dark-haired. But I'm mostly Italian.)

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            #33    
          Old August 12th, 2013 (9:28 AM). Edited August 13th, 2013 by zakisrage.
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by lollygag View Post
            And opposing construction of a mosque...wouldn't it be easier for Muslims to have a mosque in their own town than to drive several towns away to go to one? If anything, I support the construction of more mosques. If people are so concerned with them replacing churches, then why don't they actually go once in a while? (Needless to say, not all Muslims attend services regularly - people seem to forget that non-practicing Muslims do exist - but they should have mosques for the ones who are religious.)

            A lot of Muslim communities in many countries do not have enough mosques. My relatives in Argentina have to pray at home or in extra rooms of churches because the town they live in has no mosque and only a couple of other Muslim families - and most of them are related somehow. Most of that country's mosques are in the larger towns and big cities. These guys live in a small town in the northwest. Everyone else in the town is Catholic.

            Political correctness is garbage. Minorities aren't easily offended. I think people who want political correctness have the idea that minorities are more sensitive than white people because of racism. I think that that's a messed-up way of thinking. The mere expression is sometimes used without understanding what it is.

            Some of the newspaper articles about political correctness made me laugh. One that did was this school banning peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because they were offensive to minority kids. Um, I'm a minority and my mum has made me peanut butter and jelly sandwiches plenty of times. Yes, she has given me traditional Lebanese food for lunch, but not every day. And PB&J isn't exactly traditional food - most cuisines include modern dishes as well as traditional ones. I don't expect everyone to know about Lebanese food.

            I know that sometimes people get bent out of shape by old books and movies that aren't politically correct, but I'm usually not. I remember when the first Chronicles of Narnia movie came out, there was complaints over the later books having the Arabian Nights-inspired country of Calormen, which was ruled by a corrupt leader and had slavery, widespread misogyny, and worshipped a different god. People thought it was a parody of Muslim culture. I actually don't find Calormen's portrayal offensive - their religion is not like Islam; it's polytheistic, whereas Islam is monotheistic. There were sympathetic Calormenes too - Aravis was definitely one. Wikipedia says that it's a parody of the medieval European image of Islam found in The Song of Roland and other medieval legends. And we all know how ignorant medieval Europe was!

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              #34    
            Old August 13th, 2013 (7:45 AM).
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              There's a difference between being respectful and being too afraid to say anything that MIGHT possibly offend someone and incite punishment or embarrassment as a result. Political correctness is no longer defined as terminology that is neutral to all races, religions, and genders for the purpose of equality—it's now a term used to avoid any type of confrontation and to avoid "hurting someone's feelings" because it could damage your reputation or personal liberties. People aren't politically correct out of the kindness of their own hearts; they do it to keep themselves safe and out of the public eye's scrutiny.

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                #35    
              Old August 13th, 2013 (4:21 PM).
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              Political correctness is an absurd concept perpetuated by the silly idea that my rights should end where your feelings begin.

              It's one thing to stigmatize being a jerk. That's fine. However, if someone's not deliberately being a jerk and is acting at least reasonably normal by the rules of society, it's unreasonable to expect them to change their behavior to suit your needs. At the most, you should just tell them that their behavior is bothersome, but keep in mind that they're under no obligation to make you feel comfortable.

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                #36    
              Old August 24th, 2013 (5:42 PM). Edited August 25th, 2013 by zakisrage.
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                As for the Australia Day complaints, I do celebrate it and don't see a problem with it. Most of my friends celebrate it - even the ones who aren't white. I am fully aware of the fact that I live in Australia, not Lebanon, and I shouldn't act like I still live in Lebanon. Sadly, that's the problem with many immigrants. They act like they still live in their original country. Moving to a new country is a big change, and it might mean changes to your way of life. What might be considered acceptable in your own country might not be in the new country, and vice versa. For example, some Asian countries tolerate burping at the table. Western countries consider that rude. Asians who move to Western countries get used to excusing themselves when they burp.

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                  #37    
                Old August 27th, 2013 (11:12 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by twocows View Post
                Political correctness is an absurd concept perpetuated by the silly idea that my rights should end where your feelings begin.

                It's one thing to stigmatize being a jerk. That's fine. However, if someone's not deliberately being a jerk and is acting at least reasonably normal by the rules of society, it's unreasonable to expect them to change their behavior to suit your needs. At the most, you should just tell them that their behavior is bothersome, but keep in mind that they're under no obligation to make you feel comfortable.

                I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. My understanding of political correctness is, to use your terms, a negotiated space between your rights and my feelings where you don't lose all your right wherever my feelings happen to be, but you don't arbitrarily disregard my feelings just because you can either.

                If it were a Venn diagram of "My Rights" and "Your Feeling" the space where the circles overlap wouldn't be entirely one color or the other.

                So... basically, it would be what your said in your second paragraph, but with more consideration for people's feelings.

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