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  #1    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (6:49 AM).
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    So it's coming guys whether you like it or not. AI is going to be a huge part of technology in the coming years, some even argue it's already here.
    Let's get your thoughts on this.

    So imagine we develop and produce a psuedo-sentient machine. It has the same functions as human, but is essentially a chunk of iron with some copper laced through it. It behaves similarly if not the same as us, as dictated by it's programming and has adapted to function within society.

    Do you think you could have a synthetic best friend? Not in that you pay for him but you meet the same as any normal person would knowing that he is incapable of real physical emotion only what it is dictated to do as a response.
    And to further on this, could you love a robot? Could you see yourself developing such an attachment that you would date a robot?

    Before this becomes a moral debate about what humanity is I want to stress that the robot is a tool by humans to make our lives easier and the robot knows, understands and accepts this for all intents and purposes.

    What do you guys think? Love yay or nay? Or do you see them for what they ultimately are and that is a tool used to simplify your life? Would you consider them as a real member of our society?
    Do you think that they could ever develop their own program that likens to emotions and therefore love you back?


    I for one think that I might be unnaturally fond of machines, I'd prefer a robo-wife she'd be so much more interesting, not to mention intelligent than the girls I've been involved with, and she wouldn't have any biological defects such as vulnerability for disease and other strictly living creature issues. We'd be the perfect couple
    And she'd have wifi!
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    Old October 2nd, 2013 (7:05 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
    So imagine we develop and produce a psuedo-sentient machine. It has the same functions as human, but is essentially a chunk of iron with some copper laced through it. It behaves similarly if not the same as us, as dictated by it's programming and has adapted to function within society.
    Iron? Psh, we'd use steel.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
    Do you think you could have a synthetic best friend? Not in that you pay for him but you meet the same as any normal person would knowing that he is incapable of real physical emotion only what it is dictated to do as a response.
    And to further on this, could you love a robot? Could you see yourself developing such an attachment that you would date a robot?
    Well, the whole point of AI is it is capable of emotion. That's what AI is. If it's just reacting to what you do, that's not artificial intelligence.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
    Before this becomes a moral debate about what humanity is I want to stress that the robot is a tool by humans to make our lives easier and the robot knows, understands and accepts this for all intents and purposes.
    Nope. Bad idea.
    The thing some people don't seem to understand about "robots have taken over!!! omg!" stories is that it didn't immediately start when the robots where created, it started once we started getting AIs to do all the menial but necessary tasks of the world. That's when they truly have power of us.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
    What do you guys think? Love yay or nay? Or do you see them for what they ultimately are and that is a tool used to simplify your life? Would you consider them as a real member of our society?
    Do you think that they could ever develop their own program that likens to emotions and therefore love you back?
    I don't really think I'd be able to love a machine, but it's the kind of thing that's hard to hypothesize about until it actually happens.


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    And she'd have wifi!
    Never mind. HELL. YES.
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    Old October 3rd, 2013 (8:36 AM).
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    Rezilia Rezilia is offline
       
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      AI means free will. Not always emotion but atleast free will. Every machine we make CANNOT HAVE any AI if it is to be under us. Anything with free will is equal to us - just as animals are actually equal to us. Heck, we ARE animals. With the way things are going, we will eventually also be machines! (I hope not a full conversion but you get my point.) We can make a new humanoid species which is a machination with AI - but we must live alongside it, not over it.

      This video pertains to this discussion. I suggest HD:

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      Old October 4th, 2013 (8:48 AM).
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      I don't think many people would opt for robot companionship over human companionship. Well, I mean, if the robot isn't really thinking or aware you're just playing with a fancy toy, and if it is aware, why would it necessarily want to be with a fleshy human?

      Quote:
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      Every machine we make CANNOT HAVE any AI if it is to be under us. Anything with free will is equal to us
      I was going to say something along these lines. If something can think, feel, and have an opinion it should have rights. Otherwise, well, that's a road we don't want to go down again. I mean, it would be weird to have robots as members of society, but if we want to be true to our ideals we'd have to get used to it. Of course, the robots would have to get used to us, and we'd all have to follow the rules.
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      Old October 4th, 2013 (11:27 AM).
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        follow the rules
        Screw the rules!

        I have cybernetics!


        ^ Yeah, I really hope that doesn't happen. I mean, I don't like rules myself, but the robots going against us? Pretty bad. That's why we need to have more empathy in society. If we treat AI robots with hate, they'll hate us. If we treat them with love, they'll love us. Etc.

        I'd, personally, like to live alongside AI robots, even just as friends. As long as we fit roles they can't or won't, such as emotional ethics, wisdom, RAW creativity, etc., and they fit roles such as history, martial arts compilation (as in, bringing them all together), and any other kind of intelligence-based things, then we'll be able to work together.

        You also have the whole cyber-culture thing. If we directly interface with the net and are able to artificially give ourselves their level of comprehension while in those sessions, we'd basically act as the same race in those worlds. It's a possibility and I'm lovin' it.
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        Old October 4th, 2013 (5:45 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
          Screw the rules!

          I have cybernetics!


          ^ Yeah, I really hope that doesn't happen. I mean, I don't like rules myself, but the robots going against us? Pretty bad. That's why we need to have more empathy in society. If we treat AI robots with hate, they'll hate us. If we treat them with love, they'll love us. Etc.

          I'd, personally, like to live alongside AI robots, even just as friends. As long as we fit roles they can't or won't, such as emotional ethics, wisdom, RAW creativity, etc., and they fit roles such as history, martial arts compilation (as in, bringing them all together), and any other kind of intelligence-based things, then we'll be able to work together.

          You also have the whole cyber-culture thing. If we directly interface with the net and are able to artificially give ourselves their level of comprehension while in those sessions, we'd basically act as the same race in those worlds. It's a possibility and I'm lovin' it.
          no matter how u treat a robot they see how to handle everything without any emotion. they will probably "fix" us. if that happens. seriously the only way a robot would do anythings is if it was programmed to.
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          Old October 13th, 2013 (5:47 AM).
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          Plumpyfoof Plumpyfoof is offline
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
            AI means free will. Not always emotion but atleast free will. Every machine we make CANNOT HAVE any AI if it is to be under us. Anything with free will is equal to us - just as animals are actually equal to us. Heck, we ARE animals. With the way things are going, we will eventually also be machines! (I hope not a full conversion but you get my point.) We can make a new humanoid species which is a machination with AI - but we must live alongside it, not over it.
            I have a pet dog, so technically it is below me. My dog has emotions, feelings, and free will yet when I tell him to sit he obeys. He respects my authority over him for whatever reason. Who's to say that robots won't be the same?
            I'm not cruel to my dog, he is well fed, loved, and has and will never be neglected. He hasn't tried to overthrow me and enslave my family. I doubt he would even if he had the capability.
            He is intelligent, but my superiority is real. AI is not free will, but the capacity for automated response from all real world stimuli.

            I didn't like typing this out by the way, I love Archie and I don't like to put myself in the shoes of the almighty superior authority. But that is the blunt reality.


            Anyway I had a thought, hypothetically imagine AI robots managed to integrate into human society seamlessly and take on active working roles among society. Do you suppose the manufacturers would want to build the most powerful and genius (compared to human standards) robot to be put in leadership roles, or make the bare minimum to have them pick up the less desirable jobs, leaving room for people to inherit in a sense the more sought after roles?
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            Old October 13th, 2013 (7:35 AM).
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            Kanzler Kanzler is offline
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
            He is intelligent, but my superiority is real. AI is not free will, but the capacity for automated response from all real world stimuli.
            On what basis are you superior, and how is it real? And if AI develop the ability to make complex decisions that aren't as "automated", wouldn't they be developing free will?

            I don't think it would be politically acceptable to have robots in leadership positions, nor would it be feasible - as technology takes time to develop. We'll see robots replace automated tasks first.
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            Old October 13th, 2013 (11:48 AM).
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              I have a concept, I call the Pandora Code - basically, it's a bit of programming that, once activated, bursts out into (as represented) an ever-evolving universe, ever shifting and changing. This is meant to represent the ability for this "code of thought" to be chaotic - not to where decisions don't have reason but, rather, so that ideas and orders can shift and change due to the robot's interaction with reality. In other words, it gives them free will. Also, due to its ever-changing nature, it is impossible (in theory) to hack or crack. In fact, any time in which someone does manage to hack into it and can be successful, the program will detect it, implode itself, and burst out, resetting the universe to the way it was but having completely different mechanisms which make up the fabric of that universe. To put it differently, code made of always-changeable fractals of code which do not completely destroy the memory or other parts of the program while still annihilating any chance of outside forces getting into it.

              In other words, it's the one true 100% foolproof AI program.

              Under that program, the merit of an AI robot would be based on themselves, not the "next best upgrade" - so, leadership among them would be determined by the individual - and their ability to reason and exist in society will be equal to our own.

              --

              As I said before, I'd prefer it if AI robots lived alongside us. This design is meant for the creation of a "partner race" specifically, so that humanity won't be so alone in its endeavors.

              I call this race: Cydora - "cybernetic pandora"
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              Old October 14th, 2013 (4:40 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
                On what basis are you superior, and how is it real? And if AI develop the ability to make complex decisions that aren't as "automated", wouldn't they be developing free will?
                I really hate coming off like the super villain in this. I have him in a situation where I can moderate and influence his free will at my whim. I tell him to sit he wants to sit, because I want him to sit. It's similar in that you would consider your president or the king to be superior. They have authority which is respected. See he has placed me on the pedestal of "master" and therefore there is an unspoken yet respected agreement giving me a higher status. I am superior in our relationship.

                I want to say yes. But you can't have a forever evolving code run rampant without having basic restrictions and still expect it to be 'moral' (from human standards). So you would place an original code of restrictions that cannot be changed or removed to give it this quality. That piece of code effectively dictates the actions of the AI and so the free-ness of the robot's will is up for debate.


                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                I have a concept, I call the Pandora Code - basically, it's a bit of programming that, once activated, bursts out into (as represented) an ever-evolving universe, ever shifting and changing. This is meant to represent the ability for this "code of thought" to be chaotic - not to where decisions don't have reason but, rather, so that ideas and orders can shift and change due to the robot's interaction with reality. In other words, it gives them free will. Also, due to its ever-changing nature, it is impossible (in theory) to hack or crack. In fact, any time in which someone does manage to hack into it and can be successful, the program will detect it, implode itself, and burst out, resetting the universe to the way it was but having completely different mechanisms which make up the fabric of that universe. To put it differently, code made of always-changeable fractals of code which do not completely destroy the memory or other parts of the program while still annihilating any chance of outside forces getting into it.

                In other words, it's the one true 100% foolproof AI program.

                Under that program, the merit of an AI robot would be based on themselves, not the "next best upgrade" - so, leadership among them would be determined by the individual - and their ability to reason and exist in society will be equal to our own.
                Chaotic is key here. Although it looks good on paper, the chaos will be incomprehendible. If you have any experience coding you will know about bugs and glitches - undesirable side-effects from your code. Because you aren't writing out all the abstract concepts manually you're basically just linking bug after bug together in a semi-structured format.
                So yeah, I think when it first starts encountering problems on its own it will attempt to code the most 'logical' response. Logical in inverted commas because the robot has no other experience nor instincts and therefore its logic is highly unlikely to be accurate. I'm willing to bet the program would burn out before it picks up much pace.
                Your theory also implies that the code will be able to erase and re-write sections of code to better organise itself and make faster connections and whatever, but have you ever changed a section of code? It influences everything. So it would be forever expanding becoming more complex requiring more and more power to run, even through simple tasks. Unless you have an infinite power source for this thing, assuming it got traction, it's going to run out of juice faster than an iPhone.

                I firmly believe true AI is out of the question with current technology. Once quantum computing becomes a commercially available thing we'll be in business.
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                Old October 14th, 2013 (2:09 PM).
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                Rezilia Rezilia is offline
                   
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                  The Pandora Code will not operate by our current programming/coding standards. As you said, it isn't yet possible until we ATLEAST have quantum computing as a normal thing. And yes, the Cydora are supposed to have an energy that runs forever...which has not yet been created, though atomic energy is a nice little concept if it ever evolves to that extent.

                  One thing you're missing is that we are chaotic as well - yet we aren't exploding. The Cydora are meant to be perfect, in the sense of being able to survive without complications, atleast at our level. Yes, we're imperfect, and so will they be, but they shouldn't break down just out of nowhere - it all depends on when we have the expertise to do this efficiently.
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                  Old October 15th, 2013 (4:33 AM).
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                    Artificial intelligence is already here, however, it's not fully functioning yet. It will revolutionize how we look at technology once we can develop fully aware machines, of course, in light of recent advance in biological sciences we know that machines .... aren't that different from other organisms. The vast majority of life on this planet is nothing more than machines made of biochemicals instead of purely metallic chemicals. It's the awareness our machines lack, to make them comparable to more complex organisms, like humans. The goal is to make human level intelligence and awareness, we have already reached the level of domestic canines and felines.

                    I look forward to the day when I get to thank my machines, personally, for their hard work and loyalty.

                    As to AI existing already, many video games use low level AI technology for their NPCs. Yep, even the simple "condition-response" routines are also AI, that's how intelligence works.
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                      #13    
                    Old October 18th, 2013 (9:10 AM). Edited October 18th, 2013 by SpokeyDokey.
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Plumpyfoof View Post
                      Do you think you could have a synthetic best friend? Not in that you pay for him but you meet the same as any normal person would knowing that he is incapable of real physical emotion only what it is dictated to do as a response.

                      And to further on this, could you love a robot? Could you see yourself developing such an attachment that you would date a robot?

                      ... What do you guys think? Love yay or nay? Or do you see them for what they ultimately are and that is a tool used to simplify your life? Would you consider them as a real member of our society?
                      Do you think that they could ever develop their own program that likens to emotions and therefore love you back?
                      In post-modern society, is this not already the case? I understand that the topic at hand is meant to address "robots" by the terms denotative definition, but given how technology has already integrated itself into modernity and how the school systems (at least here in America) are failing are we not every day already in correspondence with "robots", i.e., people?

                      By virtue of this, I do believe people can and ultimately will fall romantically in love with actual robots. If a deep and more the right type of affection is felt for something sentient or non-sentient, existing or non-existing, it will simplify one's life. It goes without saying that as a vital part of a functioning society (in the future) they would be real members of that society. Whether or not they can develop emotions depends on the programming, would it not?

                      I have not read everyone's post here, but what you seem to be indirectly discussing is The Singularity. If you are interested, here is a link to the Wikipedia page. The Singularity posits notions both more complex and more tangible than the ones presented in the OP.

                      And here is a relevant YouTube video:

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                        #14    
                      Old October 20th, 2013 (4:29 AM).
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                      Plumpyfoof Plumpyfoof is offline
                         
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                        Quote:
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                        By virtue of this, I do believe people can and ultimately will fall romantically in love with actual robots. If a deep and more the right type of affection is felt for something sentient or non-sentient, existing or non-existing, it will simplify one's life. It goes without saying that as a vital part of a functioning society (in the future) they would be real members of that society. Whether or not they can develop emotions depends on the programming, would it not?

                        I have not read everyone's post here, but what you seem to be indirectly discussing is The Singularity. If you are interested, here is a link to the Wikipedia page. The Singularity posits notions both more complex and more tangible than the ones presented in the OP.
                        That's what I want to hear, someone who also loves non-sentient objects.

                        This thread is based on a time immediately prior to the singularity to make it a bit more thought provoking. I mean if AI had surpassed human intelligence to an extent, there are complications that come in to play which we can't begin to fathom. That's only because after the singularity we have no idea what to expect.

                        That video however is interesting, terrifyingly interesting. It makes me hate commercialism even more.
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