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Where is racism today?

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  #76    
Old October 29th, 2013 (8:42 PM).
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    I claim that America and Africa didn't really contribute at all due to what we've found in history - that the peoples in those continents were too busy warring with each other than really making advances that altered the entire world.
    I have an issue with this statement. America's civil war is what led to today's modern warfare. Things that were developed varied from more guerrilla style warfare to non-spherical bullets. Yes, we were warring with eachother, but don't say we didn't contribute much.
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      #77    
    Old October 29th, 2013 (8:47 PM).
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    It's more or less true, however. The "civilizations" of America and Africa didn't contribute much to the nation-state, Western society, nor modern science and philosophy but for the economic interaction that involved the extraction of both resources and people to the benefit of their Western overlords Should I say Western of European? is anyone familiar with "American colonialism"? just tie whatever tangents you make back to the topic of racism please.
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      #78    
    Old October 29th, 2013 (9:05 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Slayr231 View Post
      I have an issue with this statement. America's civil war is what led to today's modern warfare. Things that were developed varied from more guerrilla style warfare to non-spherical bullets. Yes, we were warring with eachother, but don't say we didn't contribute much.
      Ah, I forgot most people think America = U.S.

      Normally when I'm talking about continents, and I say America, I mean this:




      And I count 1700s+ as "recent" while late 1800s+ as "modern".

      So, I was referring to Native America, not colonial+ America >.>

      Sorry for the confusion D:

      --

      Many people claim America is "Western" or "European", since recent or modern America was mostly influenced by Europe and its culture. For example, some people may claim Capoeira as "Western" rather than "Native American". This is because the slaves created it under European rule, specifically in response to European rule.
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        #79    
      Old October 30th, 2013 (12:24 AM).
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        When I talk about those 2 continents, I say "the Americas", when I only talk about the Northern part, I say "North-America", when I only talk about the Southern part, I say "South-America", and when I talk about the country itself, I say either "America" (like most people here all it), "USA", or "United States" (not so common while writing).

        In contrast, Americans tend to call our country "Holland", our Provinces "Holland", our people "Holland", but at least they don't call the continent "Holland", but they sometimes refer Europe to as "UK", and the UK becomes "England".
        Recently, although I'm not sure it's true, I heard Americans call Poland "Death Camp" or "Auschwitz".
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          #80    
        Old October 30th, 2013 (7:05 AM).
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        Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
        When I talk about those 2 continents, I say "the Americas", when I only talk about the Northern part, I say "North-America", when I only talk about the Southern part, I say "South-America", and when I talk about the country itself, I say either "America" (like most people here all it), "USA", or "United States" (not so common while writing).
        This is really common outside of the United States. South Americans do the same thing, when they say America, they're referring to the entire American landmass.

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
        In contrast, Americans tend to call our country "Holland", our Provinces "Holland", our people "Holland", but at least they don't call the continent "Holland", but they sometimes refer Europe to as "UK", and the UK becomes "England".
        Recently, although I'm not sure it's true, I heard Americans call Poland "Death Camp" or "Auschwitz".
        While people in North America colloquially call the Netherlands Holland, they've been calling the people there Dutch for several centuries, and that's only because "Dutch" was originally used to refer to all Germanic speaking peoples and there were more "Dutch" than any others! We also colloquially refer to the UK as England.

        The rest sounds terribly stereotypical. Who's passing these rumors along? If somebody's referring to Europe as the UK and Poland as Auschwitz I'm thinking they're making a political joke.
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          #81    
        Old October 30th, 2013 (9:23 AM). Edited November 1st, 2013 by Rezilia.
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
          Poland as Auschwitz
          Hoohoo! Me oh my! Indeed, miss, indeed! >.>

          --

          I normally called the U.S.: Murica. That way people know what I'm talking about, and I don't say America >.>

          --

          Back on topic y'all :O

          Anyone here from the Middle East? I've always wondered if people there are generally considered white, moreso than anything else.
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            #82    
          Old October 31st, 2013 (4:47 PM).
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            Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
            That's interesting. I think Lebanese people are white. I think most Arabs are white. If you look white, you're white lol. It's interesting when the War on Terror was in its heights in the hearts and minds of the people, Arab wasn't considered white.
            A lot of people think only Lebanese Christians (especially Maronites) can be considered white. Lebanese Muslims are considered brown by a lot of people. Which is especially ridiculous since I have blond and redheaded Lebanese relatives who are all Muslim and 100% Lebanese. Some of my paternal relatives look French or English - I think my family might have distant ancestors who were Crusaders from Europe. (If that's the case, then somewhere along the line they must have converted to Islam.) Even my own facial features look more Western European than Middle Eastern, despite the fact that my colouring suggests Arab.

            I am hesitant to consider myself white since I know people who equate "white" with being Anglo-Celtic. It's annoying because a lot of people have light colouring - not just people who originate from the UK and Ireland.
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              #83    
            Old November 1st, 2013 (4:24 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
              Hoohoo! Me oh my! Indeed, sir, indeed! >.>
              Doesn't want anyone to confuse her gender; confuses gender of other people.

              Also, Europe being referred to as "UK" is something I commonly see in YouTube Comments, Website Comments, and what not.
              Poland being referred to as "Auschwitz" is something I just know since a few days, though.
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                #84    
              Old November 1st, 2013 (3:48 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
                Doesn't want anyone to confuse her gender; confuses gender of other people.

                Also, Europe being referred to as "UK" is something I commonly see in YouTube Comments, Website Comments, and what not.
                Poland being referred to as "Auschwitz" is something I just know since a few days, though.
                I find your comments extremely ignorant. You can't judge all Americans by ones you've seen on the Internet. I'm not even American and I HATE it when people mercilessly bash America as if it's the root of all evil. (There are many countries that I hate more, like Turkey. I can't even tell you how much I hate Turkey's racist, violent government.)
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                  #85    
                Old November 2nd, 2013 (12:14 AM).
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                  Wait wait wait.
                  In which sentence did I say it applies to all Americans?
                  If I say "Americans", I mean to say, "the average American", not "all Americans".
                  Besides, the Post you've quoted doesn't mention that word anywhere.
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                    #86    
                  Old November 2nd, 2013 (6:57 AM).
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                  Who's the average American? Mathematically that's a tall order I don't think Americans are that geographically inept.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by zakisrage View Post
                  A lot of people think only Lebanese Christians (especially Maronites) can be considered white. Lebanese Muslims are considered brown by a lot of people. Which is especially ridiculous since I have blond and redheaded Lebanese relatives who are all Muslim and 100% Lebanese. Some of my paternal relatives look French or English - I think my family might have distant ancestors who were Crusaders from Europe. (If that's the case, then somewhere along the line they must have converted to Islam.) Even my own facial features look more Western European than Middle Eastern, despite the fact that my colouring suggests Arab.

                  I am hesitant to consider myself white since I know people who equate "white" with being Anglo-Celtic. It's annoying because a lot of people have light colouring - not just people who originate from the UK and Ireland.
                  It's very interesting that people associate Muslim with foreign, and as a result consider some Levantines white and others not even though they come from the same gene pool. I think people can be very choosy about who is and isn't a certain race. It probably stems from a political motivation more than any "objective" criteria.
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                    #87    
                  Old November 2nd, 2013 (7:19 AM).
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                    The average American is the average American.
                    There are so many Americans on this Planet, you just can't make them all equal.
                    Not even nationality can't be counted as equal, there are people in the USA with a different nationality, or even nations with people from the USA.

                    Also, Muslims isn't a Race, nor it's a Nationality.
                    Muslim is a Religion.
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                      #88    
                    Old November 2nd, 2013 (9:33 AM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
                      I don't think Americans are that geographically inept.
                      If you mean the U.S., then yes - we are.
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                        #89    
                      Old November 2nd, 2013 (4:52 PM). Edited November 2nd, 2013 by zakisrage.
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                        Accusations of racism can get messed up. People get accused of racism when criticising cultural practices, even if they violate human rights. There are people who are afraid to report female genital mutilation in sub-Saharan Africa for that reason.

                        They falsely accuse Arabs of doing it. I've spent years in Lebanon and I've NEVER heard of a single FGM case in Lebanon. I've even heard Turks and Iranians getting accused of doing it when it does not exist in either culture. The only Arab countries I can think of where it's practiced are Mauritania, Sudan, and Egypt.

                        People who think Islam is misogynistic are wrong. FGM is not allowed in the Koran - not at all. Don't let Daniel Pipes or Ayaan Hirsi Ali try to tell you otherwise.
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                          #90    
                        Old November 4th, 2013 (10:22 AM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                          If you mean the U.S., then yes - we are.
                          You'll find videos and such of people interviewing Americans about geography and then laughing at them for getting the question wrong - but then you have to ask, how many Americans did it take them to find those who were so inept? For every ignorant answer, there were probably many more correct answers in between that they just don't show. The stereotype that the US is geographically inept compared to other countries is just that - a stereotype. It is true that there is less focus on the rest of the world in the US media and a poorer emphasis on geography in some schools, which could lead to less geographical knowledge in some populations but I don't think that generalizes to all by any means.

                          I'm curious - what do people think of affirmative action programs? I personally like them, I think they help even the playing field a little bit for minorities, who are faced with a subtle disadvantage in multiple domains throughout their life. I know that some people find them absolutely abhorrent though.
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                            #91    
                          Old November 4th, 2013 (11:26 AM).
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                            Do you mean this?
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                              #92    
                            Old November 5th, 2013 (9:52 AM).
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                            Let's try to bring the discussion back to the topic of racism and not get on a tangent about America education, though feel free to start a new thread about that if you'd like.

                            I think affirmative action programs are a kind of halfway measure. Good, but not ideal. There is merit to the claim that they unfairly discriminate against white people/non-minorities, but then minorities/non-whites get discriminated against in other areas of society. I'd rather not have either face discrimination, but I do think it can help offset some of the imbalance.
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                              #93    
                            Old November 5th, 2013 (10:04 AM).
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                            Quote:
                            Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                            If you mean the U.S., then yes - we are.
                            Could you care to give statistical evidence to back it up? Otherwise you're falling to stereotyping.
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                              #94    
                            Old November 5th, 2013 (1:20 PM).
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                              Well, we generally only have one class about Geography in basic education in the United States. And, atleast when I was in that class, we didn't learn Geography.

                              So yah.

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                              I've found that hybrids are discriminated against more than those "purely" of a race.
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                                #95    
                              Old November 5th, 2013 (1:44 PM).
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                              Personally, I'm not a fan of the idea of affirmative action. Representation on a race basis might be important for certain kinds of democracies that are segregated on race lines, but to do so in the private sector is over the top. I don't like its attitude - it feels like a crutch. The fact of the matter in university selection is that 50% of the time (if you're black) you /aren't/ as good as the guy beside you. It sounds like a quick fix to me. What should be emphasized is affordable housing, investment in standards for education - and I don't mean teaching standards, but making sure the education system is able to deliver quality education to everybody, not just to the rich or those who live in better neighbourhoods.
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                                #96    
                              Old November 5th, 2013 (1:58 PM).
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                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by BlahISuck View Post
                                What should be emphasized is affordable housing, investment in standards for education - and I don't mean teaching standards, but making sure the education system is able to deliver quality education to everybody, not just to the rich or those who live in better neighbourhoods.
                                I reject this idea. Affecting the housing industry so that it is more affordable will decrease the amount of people going to apartments and hotels, which will decrease the quality of those places. In addition, more affordable housing would also mean making cheaper houses which itself decreases the quality of homes themselves.

                                And I am 100% against having education as a standard and the funding of such a standard. We have the internet now. The only thing educational institutions can provide is additional learning aid - which would be teachers - and thus your idea that the focus should be on education instead of teaching standards will FURTHER decrease the ability for teachers to ACTUALLY teach. Which nowadays, they can't, since everything they do is done per schedules, texts, and guidelines forced onto them which keeps them from teaching in their own way and, thus, teaching at all.
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                                Old November 5th, 2013 (2:23 PM).
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                                Quote:
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                                I reject this idea. Affecting the housing industry so that it is more affordable will decrease the amount of people going to apartments and hotels, which will decrease the quality of those places. In addition, more affordable housing would also mean making cheaper houses which itself decreases the quality of homes themselves.
                                Absolutely, there must be a balance between price and quality. However, the fact of the matter is when parents in poor neighbourhoods have to worry about rent and bills it decreases their quality of life, their quality of parenting, and their ability to consume into the economy. The market will continue to discriminate on a price basis, so I don't see how other more expensive forms of housing be affected. The housing market is heavily segmented, which is why we have multi-million dollar lakefront property as well as cooperative, subsidized apartments for single moms. So I don't see there being a race to the bottom in terms of price and quality. Even though it's economics, race has economic impacts. Investment leads to returns, and so an investment into equality is a smart choice.

                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Rezilia View Post
                                And I am 100% against having education as a standard and the funding of such a standard. We have the internet now. The only thing educational institutions can provide is additional learning aid - which would be teachers - and thus your idea that the focus should be on education instead of teaching standards will FURTHER decrease the ability for teachers to ACTUALLY teach. Which nowadays, they can't, since everything they do is done per schedules, texts, and guidelines forced onto them which keeps them from teaching in their own way and, thus, teaching at all.
                                Yeah, using the word "standard" really makes my passage unclear. I mean to equalize the education system, so most people can enjoy an education that works for them, instead of this pyramid structure which has the elite schools at the top while its foundation decays to the detriment of the masses. So I meant standard in the sense of allocating resources in such a way that everybody benefits, instead of the privileged winning out.
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                                  #98    
                                Old November 5th, 2013 (2:31 PM).
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                                  I see...

                                  Then, in both those cases, you still need a standard - a "quality standard", to be more precise. In each industry, if a certain level of quality is not kept up by sellers / educational institutions, then those places will be quickly dealt with so that they either do meet the standard or are destroyed.
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                                    #99    
                                  Old November 10th, 2013 (11:36 AM).
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                                  I think to summarize my views on correcting racism, I prefer altering the supply side of the equation, versus the demand side. Give the aggrieved minorities better living conditions, access for the masses to a proper education and change will come in time. It's better than picking someone on the basis of "well, there should be more x minority, so we'll take a couple more of them". I don't know if that attitude of affirmative of action actually changes the public's attitudes - it seems like it would cause resentment more than reconciliation from how heavy handed it is.
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                                    #100    
                                  Old November 11th, 2013 (9:10 AM).
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                                  I think in my area, we have our own form of racism here. We have three types of racist groups: the Mexicans who are originally from Mexico, the Mexicans originally from the US, and the Americans. Sadly I fall under the second group. It's so weird, really. We even have a racist gang up north, and that's where most of the crime reports are coming from.

                                  Racism is everywhere, as a full-blooded Mexican myself I can feel the pinch of it everywhere I go because every time an average American sees a Mexican speaking Spanish they would immediately think we're illegal immigrants, especially if you go a little more north up in the state. And sometimes when an American gets killed here they would assume a Mexican did it. Oh, and this is something I would loooove to discuss, and I hear this all the time: "Oh, all the Mexicans get the good jobs!!!" You know what? That is half-true, half-false, and let me explain why: The managers and/or owners of the employers manipulate the hiring process in order to give their "friends" an opportunity to work. But also, you have to blame the recruiting managers from the border towns that post these job opportunities in unemployment centers in Mexico in order to recruit employers from Mexico, in which a passport or visa, as well as an ability to speak little English are the only requirements. Some employers would provide them benefits such as insurance, and possibly room & board if they have to travel. So, sometimes that argument about Mexicans getting all the jobs is kinda invalid.

                                  It's the same with schools here, really. One of the requirements to enroll in a public school here is to have a school official visit your house only to prove that you live there. Reportedly this only happens to Mexicans because they ALWAYS assume we're manipulating the enrollment process and ditching the education system in Mexico just to obtain a slightly better education here in the United States. If the student doesn't have a place to sleep in, they will reject your enrollment. Colleges & universities here are more welcoming to the people from the other side of the border, the only disadvantage is that they do not get the same benefits as a person residing here in the US. Thankfully, there are a few schools in Calexico and El Centro that take in students from Mexico no matter where they live, not only because they prefer the education system here in the US, but it also gives them the opportunity to explore the best of both worlds.

                                  I can explain a little more later on, but for now this is just a take. xD
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