Building my team, but egg moves kill my motivation!

Just when I thought I had the mastered IV breeding, egg moves come in. It really bugs me that smogon has to make every competitive moveset include an egg move. I want to build a great competitive team so that I can compete in tourneys and etc, but this straight up kills my motivation...

But, it aint supposed to be easy i guess.

Can someone help me with egg moves but also suggest team options?


First; let me paint the picture;

I have a Gengar (that I'm proud to say I bred my self) that I want to base my team around

Gengar@Life orb
Timid
IV's all 31 (with the exception of Attack)
EV's: 252 SpA/252speed/6Hp

Moves:
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt
Dazzling Gleam (Replace with Focus Blast?)
Sludge Bomb

I haven't gotten them yet, but this is what I figured would be the best option for Gengar-support (if you know about an even better option, don't hesitate to come with suggestions!)

Lucario@Lucarionite
Adamant
Iv's all 31 (except Sp.A).
EV's; 252 attack/ 252 speed/ 4hp
Moves:

Sword Dance
Close Combat
Extreme Speed
Crunch/bullet punch (egg moves!!)
---------------------
Tyranitar@Leftovers
Sassy
Iv's all 31 (except Sp.A)
Evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Moves:

Stealth Rock (egg move)
Pursuit (another egg move)
Crunch
Fire Blast/Superpower/Stone Edge
--------------------------
Last but not least:
Gyarados w/Leftovers
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
Ability: Intimidate/Moxie
EVs: 88 HP, 248 Attack, 4 Defense, 168 Speed OR 156 HP, 72 Attack, 96 Defense, 184 Sp.Defense
Moves:

Dragon Dance,
Waterfall,
Bounce (egg move)
Taunt/Substitute


And of course additional two teammates (suggestions? Think about weaknesses. I, personally thought about adding a Grass type to cover water effectiveness).

My problem here, a problem that literally hinders me from progressing, is how the heck do you breed for an egg move?! As you can see; all of Gengar's teammates have at least ONE egg move. Can the egg moves that people recommend be replaced by other moves; that still make the pokemon effective?

As I mentioned earlier, I now know how to breed for perfect Iv's, but I have absolutely no idea on how to implement an egg-move PKMN to my final phases of IV breeding (when I have two 4 IV PKMN to breed).

So brothers and sisters, needless to say; need some help!

Crunch is a level up move for T-tar, and bounce is an event move if I recall correctly. Superpower can't be used as it is a tutor move from Black and White 2.
Lucario should ALWAYS use Jolly. It can't afford being outsped by Gengar, Lati@s, Tornadous, Starmie, Alakazam, Landrous-I and Terrikion and friends,

MylittlePlusle said:

Crunch is a level up move for T-tar, and bounce is an event move if I recall correctly. Superpower can't be used as it is a tutor move from Black and White 2.

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My bad. Crunch is, of course, a level up move. Bounce is an event move for X & Y, but a move tutor move for black and white. So I guess Ima have to wait for Pokebank for Gyara Bounce

Focus Blast is the superior option over Thunderbolt on Gengar. Hitting Steels harder than Shadow Ball would is pretty important, you know.

If I were you, I wouldn't use Extreme Speed and Bullet Punch together on Lucario, and I'd just pick one between the two. If you can't be bothered to breed for Crunch, Earthquake is a viable alternative to hit Aegislash without triggering the Attack drop from King's Shield.

Here's a list of compatible parents for Tyranitar's egg moves:
-Stealth Rock: Tyrunt/Tyrantrum
-Pursuit: Cranidos/Rampardos

Note that you'll have to chain breed for Tyranitar to have the Stealth Rock/Pursuit combo. First, breed a female Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar with a male parent of the above. Then breed the female offspring with a male parent of the other species not used.

You just gotta breed 'em with the right Pokemon (not sure how that'd effect your IVs, I generally don't IV breed).

Lucario can get Crunch from a lotta Pokemon: the elemental monkeys, the Sandile line, Scrafty, Pyroar, Houndoom, etc. Bullet Punch is only available via breeding with Hitomnchan, who's not available until PokeBank. So you might as well go with Crunch.

Tyranitar can get Pursuit in X/Y by breeding with Craindos/Rampardos. You can then breed the Larvitar with Pursuit with a Tyrunt/Tyrantrum that knows Stealth Rock, and you should have a Larvitar with both moves.

And I suggested that Gyarados set to you, then forgot that Bounce is a PokeBank only move. Sorry about that.

You could try going over to the Competitive Trade Plaza thread and ask for people to help you out, so long as you have something to give them in return.

PlatinumDude said:

Focus Blast is the superior option over Thunderbolt on Gengar. Hitting Steels harder than Shadow Ball would is pretty important, you know.

If I were you, I wouldn't use Extreme Speed and Bullet Punch together on Lucario, and I'd just pick one between the two. If you can't be bothered to breed for Crunch, Earthquake is a viable alternative to hit Aegislash without triggering the Attack drop from King's Shield.

Here's a list of compatible parents for Tyranitar's egg moves:
-Stealth Rock: Tyrunt/Tyrantrum
-Pursuit: Cranidos/Rampardos

Note that you'll have to chain breed for Tyranitar to have the Stealth Rock/Pursuit combo. First, breed a female Larvitar/Pupitar/Tyranitar with a male parent of the above. Then breed the female offspring with a male parent of the other species not used.

Click to expand...

Correct me if I aint right now; so Tyrunt with a female Pupitar in my case, and the the female offspring with a male Cranidos? This potentially leaves me with a female larvitar with both Pursuit and Stealth Rock.

From here I just do my regular IV breeding (so naturally, the most efficient outcome is a female larvitar that I use to pass on nature, as usual in IV breeding?) I assume that both of the egg moves are always passed on to the offspring. Gotta admit, a bit confused now.


How will it affect the IV breeding?

No Chance Without Zekrom said:

You just gotta breed 'em with the right Pokemon (not sure how that'd effect your IVs, I generally don't IV breed).

Lucario can get Crunch from a lotta Pokemon: the elemental monkeys, the Sandile line, Scrafty, Pyroar, Houndoom, etc. Bullet Punch is only available via breeding with Hitomnchan, who's not available until PokeBank. So you might as well go with Crunch.

Tyranitar can get Pursuit in X/Y by breeding with Craindos/Rampardos. You can then breed the Larvitar with Pursuit with a Tyrunt/Tyrantrum that knows Stealth Rock, and you should have a Larvitar with both moves.

And I suggested that Gyarados set to you, then forgot that Bounce is a PokeBank only move. Sorry about that.

You could try going over to the Competitive Trade Plaza thread and ask for people to help you out, so long as you have something to give them in return.

Click to expand...

No stress bro ;) Ima have to do something else with Gyara; possibly a Mega Gyara.

Can someone help me? I finally read myself to know what Egg moves are and how to get them, but should I breed for an egg move after getting a PKMN with 5 perfect IV's or before starting the whole IV breeding process? How will it affect my IV's?

By some crazy stroke of luck, I got a female Larvitar with a Sassy nature, Stealth Rock, Pursuit, Dragon Dance, and perfect IVs in HP, Defense, Sp.Attack, and Sp.Defense via Wonder Trade yesterday.

If you want, I can give it to you, Fabe. Just not for like another 8 hours, since I wanna breed it for myself, and I can't trade or anything right now since I'm at school (and will be there for a while).

If your current Tyranitar is male, you can breed it with this one and still end up with one with good IVs, if the male holds Destiny Knot and the female holds the Everstone.

If you're interested, tell me. My Friend Code should visible when you hover your mouse over the little 3DS symbol in the top-right corner of this post. I'll add you when I can and trade you the Larvitar.

No Chance Without Zekrom said:

By some crazy stroke of luck, I got a female Larvitar with a Sassy nature, Stealth Rock, Pursuit, Dragon Dance, and perfect IVs in HP, Defense, Sp.Attack, and Sp.Defense via Wonder Trade yesterday.

If you want, I can give it to you, Fabe. Just not for like another 8 hours, since I wanna breed it for myself, and I can't trade or anything right now since I'm at school (and will be there for a while).

If your current Tyranitar is male, you can breed it with this one and still end up with one with good IVs, if the male holds Destiny Knot and the female holds the Everstone.

If you're interested, tell me. My Friend Code should visible when you hover your mouse over the little 3DS symbol in the top-right corner of this post. I'll add you when I can and trade you the Larvitar.

Click to expand...

Wow, I'd really appreciate that! I aint got anything of particular rarity, but I can trade you my Ylveltal, if you aint got it already. I'm adding your friend code. Take your time at school and do the same when you got the time. My friendcode is in the signature ;)


Thanks bro, means a lot! :D

Fabe Franco said:

Can someone help me? I finally read myself to know what Egg moves are and how to get them, but should I breed for an egg move after getting a PKMN with 5 perfect IV's or before starting the whole IV breeding process? How will it affect my IV's?

Click to expand...

I am relatively new to the post-game antics that Pokémon has to offer, so there could absolutely be a more efficient method, but in my experience it is easier to breed an ideal female before trying to append some egg moves to the moveset. Reason being, you can give your ideal female your everstone and your cross breed your destiny knot and after a few inventories of eggs you are bound to get a couple of 3-4 IV males with the egg moves you are looking for. After that it is only a matter of time before you have your ideal, egg move mon.


Hope you find this helpful

You said you were thinking of putting a Grass type on your team. That's probably not a bad idea. There's not a whole lotta good Grass types that are a) available on X/Y until PokeBank and b) work with your team. But there are a few good options:

-Gourgeist (Super Size) w/Leftovers:
Nature: Impish
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Sp.Defense
Moves: Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed/Pain Spilt, Shadow Sneak, Seed Bomb

or

-Gourgeist (small size) w/Leftovers:
Nature: Jolly/Impish
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 72 Defense, 184 Speed
Moves: Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed, Protect/Pain Spilt/Substitute, Seed Bomb

Gourgeist makes for a nice Grass type physical wall (and T-tar is your special tank, so you have both sides of defense covered. It is part Ghost, but Tyranitar, Lucario, and possibly Mega Gyarados cover its weaknesses to some degree.

Then there's Trevenant:
-Trevenant w/ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant / Impish
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk, 170 Def, 86 HP
Moves: Leech Seed, Horn Leech/Wood Hammer, Will-o-Wisp, Shadow Claw/Phantom Force

or

-Trevenant w/Lum Berry
Nature: Impish
Ability: Harvest (which is its Hidden Ability)
EVs: 252 HP, 170 Def, 86 Sp.Defense
Moves: Rest, Phantom Force, Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed/Protect/Substitute

Something like that should work, I think.

For a more offensive Grass type, there's Roserade. She's a bit frail physically, but can be useful:

-Roserade w/Black Sludge
Nature: Calm
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP, 240 Sp.Defense, 16 Speed
Moves: Spikes, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball, Synthesis

or

-Roserade w/Life Orb
Nature: Modest/Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Moves: Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Extrasensory/Hidden Power Fire/Sleep Powder, Giga Drain/Synthesis

Roserade wouldn't be my first option for your team, as you need something more physically bulky. But if you have something for a non-Grass type physical wall in your last slot, Roserade could work fine.

This team seems a little weak to Dragon STAB. Lucario is slow before his mega stone activates and so frail that he will end up taking a lot of damage anyways. DD Dragonite or Garchomp could be a problem to switch into. Rotom-W looks a bit annoying to switch into. The TTar set you have is alright, but really doesn't do much, even less in a Pokemon with so many hard hitters like Gen 6 has. Choice Band Azumarill might be a pretty cool choice over Gyara, as Dragon spamming won't work with him around [although you still have to be careful]. He can help weaken Lucario's checks/counters and lure in pokemon like Ferrothorn that Lucario sets up on. I also reccomend Nasty Plot/Special Attacker Lucario over the current since Mega Venusaur is huge, and, unfortunately walls Azumarill. For your other slots a grass type or even something like Goodra to take on Rotom-W would be useful, as would a scarfer, to stop setup sweepers.

Antebellum said:

This team seems a little weak to Dragon STAB. Lucario is slow before his mega stone activates and so frail that he will end up taking a lot of damage anyways. DD Dragonite or Garchomp could be a problem to switch into. Rotom-W looks a bit annoying to switch into. The TTar set you have is alright, but really doesn't do much, even less in a Pokemon with so many hard hitters like Gen 6 has. Choice Band Azumarill might be a pretty cool choice over Gyara, as Dragon spamming won't work with him around [although you still have to be careful]. He can help weaken Lucario's checks/counters and lure in pokemon like Ferrothorn that Lucario sets up on. I also reccomend Nasty Plot/Special Attacker Lucario over the current since Mega Venusaur is huge, and, unfortunately walls Azumarill. For your other slots a grass type or even something like Goodra to take on Rotom-W would be useful, as would a scarfer, to stop setup sweepers.

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What nature and role do you suggest for T-tar then? From my perspective, I desperately need a defensive support, since Gengar and Lucario are as weak as they are. I got what you sayin in regards to the T-Tar's 6-7ish typing weaknesses, but at the same time...yeah, well you get my point.

Totally agree on the Dragon suggestion :). I was thinking of a fairy type, or a Cloyster even, nah mean?

Wouldn't Gengar alone be able to take MegaSaur? And a physical-Luke would cover that gap of not having any physical attackers, don't you think?

No Chance Without Zekrom said:

You said you were thinking of putting a Grass type on your team. That's probably not a bad idea. There's not a whole lotta good Grass types that are a) available on X/Y until PokeBank and b) work with your team. But there are a few good options:

-Gourgeist (Super Size) w/Leftovers:
Nature: Impish
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Sp.Defense
Moves: Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed/Pain Spilt, Shadow Sneak, Seed Bomb

or

-Gourgeist (small size) w/Leftovers:
Nature: Jolly/Impish
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 72 Defense, 184 Speed
Moves: Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed, Protect/Pain Spilt/Substitute, Seed Bomb

Gourgeist makes for a nice Grass type physical wall (and T-tar is your special tank, so you have both sides of defense covered. It is part Ghost, but Tyranitar, Lucario, and possibly Mega Gyarados cover its weaknesses to some degree.

Then there's Trevenant:
-Trevenant w/ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant / Impish
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk, 170 Def, 86 HP
Moves: Leech Seed, Horn Leech/Wood Hammer, Will-o-Wisp, Shadow Claw/Phantom Force

or

-Trevenant w/Lum Berry
Nature: Impish
Ability: Harvest (which is its Hidden Ability)
EVs: 252 HP, 170 Def, 86 Sp.Defense
Moves: Rest, Phantom Force, Will-o-Wisp, Leech Seed/Protect/Substitute

Something like that should work, I think.

For a more offensive Grass type, there's Roserade. She's a bit frail physically, but can be useful:

-Roserade w/Black Sludge
Nature: Calm
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP, 240 Sp.Defense, 16 Speed
Moves: Spikes, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball, Synthesis

or

-Roserade w/Life Orb
Nature: Modest/Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Moves: Leaf Storm, Sludge Bomb, Extrasensory/Hidden Power Fire/Sleep Powder, Giga Drain/Synthesis

Roserade wouldn't be my first option for your team, as you need something more physically bulky. But if you have something for a non-Grass type physical wall in your last slot, Roserade could work fine.

Click to expand...

I wish smogon had something on these.

Leuram said:

I am relatively new to the post-game antics that Pokémon has to offer, so there could absolutely be a more efficient method, but in my experience it is easier to breed an ideal female before trying to append some egg moves to the moveset. Reason being, you can give your ideal female your everstone and your cross breed your destiny knot and after a few inventories of eggs you are bound to get a couple of 3-4 IV males with the egg moves you are looking for. After that it is only a matter of time before you have your ideal, egg move mon.


Hope you find this helpful

Click to expand...

You made this much easier than I thought it would be. Plus, egg moves are now consistently bred to the baby, so that helps as well.

Preciate it yo!

You should keep you Lucario as a physical one. Changing it to a specialattacker does little to help it combat Mega Venusaur. Something that both works against Mega Venusaur and give you a Fairy type is:

-Togekiss w/Leftovers
Nature: Bold/Calm
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Speed
Moves: Air Slash, Thunder Wave, Dazzling Gleam, Roost

This works pretty good against Mega Venusaur (who rarely runs offensive EVs and you can paraflinch to death), and walls most Dragonites and Salamences. I would've recommended Roost in the last slot, but that's a Black2/White2 move tutor move. Not sure what to put there. How the hell did I forget that Roost is a TM this Gen? Yes, Roost is probably the best option in the last slot. Nasty Plot works good too, but that's an egg move.

let togekiss run roost/wish, if it was offensive however, run nasty plot. btw smogon do have pre-analyses ready right here.

roost alleviates its rock and electric weakness and immediately recovers hp while wish is nicely used in conjunction with thunder wave and air slash from experience, and it allows passive recovery to your teammates as well.

No Chance Without Zekrom said:

You should keep you Lucario as a physical one. Changing it to a specialattacker does little to help it combat Mega Venusaur. Something that both works against Mega Venusaur and give you a Fairy type is:

-Togekiss w/Leftovers
Nature: Bold/Calm
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP, 216 Defense, 44 Speed
Moves: Air Slash, Thunder Wave, Dazzling Gleam, Roost

This works pretty good against Mega Venusaur (who rarely runs offensive EVs and you can paraflinch to death), and walls most Dragonites and Salamences. I would've recommended Roost in the last slot, but that's a Black2/White2 move tutor move. Not sure what to put there. How the hell did I forget that Roost is a TM this Gen? Yes, Roost is probably the best option in the last slot. Nasty Plot works good too, but that's an egg move.

Click to expand...

At +2, Flash Cannon does 64.2 - 75.8% to MAX SPDEF Venusaur. Crunch does (32.4 - 38.1%) to Max Defense Venusaur when Lucario is at +2, Thick Fat will do (24.7 - 29.1%) , and Close Combat will do (48.3 - 57.1%) but unless the Venusaur is switching in you will lose because of the defense drop. Changing to a special attacker does a lot to combat mega venusaur. Anyways, Fabe Franco, Gengar can't really beat Venusaur besides PP Stalling Synthesis since the poke is incredibly bulky, you'd ideally need SpDef drops from Shadow Ball and then stall it out of hypnosis but since you don't have Pain Split then Gengar is probably dead by then.

Antebellum said:

At +2, Flash Cannon does 64.2 - 75.8% to MAX SPDEF Venusaur. Crunch does (32.4 - 38.1%) to Max Defense Venusaur when Lucario is at +2, Thick Fat will do (24.7 - 29.1%) , and Close Combat will do (48.3 - 57.1%) but unless the Venusaur is switching in you will lose because of the defense drop. Changing to a special attacker does a lot to combat mega venusaur. Anyways, Fabe Franco, Gengar can't really beat Venusaur besides PP Stalling Synthesis since the poke is incredibly bulky, you'd ideally need SpDef drops from Shadow Ball and then stall it out of hypnosis but since you don't have Pain Split then Gengar is probably dead by then.

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Does it really? I haven't bothered to look for a Gen 6 damage calculator yet, so I didn't run the numbers when I said that. I thought Mega Venusaur was a bit bulkier than that. Guess not.

I do agree about Gengar though. It can't beat (Mega) Venusaur by itself.

Antebellum said:

At +2, Flash Cannon does 64.2 - 75.8% to MAX SPDEF Venusaur. Crunch does (32.4 - 38.1%) to Max Defense Venusaur when Lucario is at +2, Thick Fat will do (24.7 - 29.1%) , and Close Combat will do (48.3 - 57.1%) but unless the Venusaur is switching in you will lose because of the defense drop. Changing to a special attacker does a lot to combat mega venusaur. Anyways, Fabe Franco, Gengar can't really beat Venusaur besides PP Stalling Synthesis since the poke is incredibly bulky, you'd ideally need SpDef drops from Shadow Ball and then stall it out of hypnosis but since you don't have Pain Split then Gengar is probably dead by then.

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Okay. Ima consider Togekiss; seems like a pretty good choice.

Btw, what Tyranitar should I go for then? I thought about what you said, and that T-tar can do little if he has a 252hp/252 sp.d spread. Should I go for an adamant or jolly attacker instead?

yo, correct me if I'm wrong; but what about a bounce Gyara? Gyara's attack would be great against M(Venu) Defence. Plus, Gyara has a lot more bulk than Gengar, so it aint definitely not 1OHO. Mabye 2 or 3OHK.

That would cover Togekiss' flying spot, and would leave me with another spot on the team.

A Gyarados with Bounce is nice. But that's a Black2/White2 move tutor only move, remember? So Togekiss is still an option.

And so much for the Larvitar I gave you. :( Crazy thing? I have an Adamant one too. {XD} (Although you could probably breed your own Larvitars with whatever nature you want with the 2 you have).

So a physical attacker Tyranitar could look like:

-Tyranitar w/Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sand stream
EVs: 180 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Speed
Moves: Crunch/Payback, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Brick Break/Earthquake

Superpower usually goes in the last slot, but that's a Black2/White2 move tutor move (unless you're cool with waiting for the PokeBank). That, and Superpower is an overrated move.

or

-Tyranitar w/Focus Sash or Chople Berry or Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand stream
EVs: 252 attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves: Dragon Dance, Stone Edge, Crunch, Earthquake/Brick Break/Pursuit

or

-Tyranitar w/Leftovers
Nature: Brave/Quiet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Special Attack
Moves: Crunch, Stone Edge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam

This is a mixed set, which Tyranitar is capable of doing. Not sure about the EV spread (could someone please check that?).

No Chance Without Zekrom said:

A Gyarados with Bounce is nice. But that's a Black2/White2 move tutor only move, remember? So Togekiss is still an option.

And so much for the Larvitar I gave you. :( Crazy thing? I have an Adamant one too. {XD} (Although you could probably breed your own Larvitars with whatever nature you want with the 2 you have).

So a physical attacker Tyranitar could look like:

-Tyranitar w/Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Sand stream
EVs: 180 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Speed
Moves: Crunch/Payback, Pursuit, Stone Edge, Brick Break/Earthquake

Superpower usually goes in the last slot, but that's a Black2/White2 move tutor move (unless you're cool with waiting for the PokeBank). That, and Superpower is an overrated move.

or

-Tyranitar w/Focus Sash or Chople Berry or Lum Berry
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand stream
EVs: 252 attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Moves: Dragon Dance, Stone Edge, Crunch, Earthquake/Brick Break/Pursuit

or

-Tyranitar w/Leftovers
Nature: Brave/Quiet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 180 HP, 252 Attack, 76 Special Attack
Moves: Crunch, Stone Edge, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam

This is a mixed set, which Tyranitar is capable of doing. Not sure about the EV spread (could someone please check that?).

Click to expand...

I thought Black (1) also had a move tutor with Magikarp/Gyara Bounce...?

As for the T-tar. You know what? Ima try the support Tar first, see what it does.
If it aint working, Ima simply breed my self another Adamant/Jolly Tar. Dont want to hassle you no more bro, plus, its simple, especially now that I got the moves I need (that larv you gave me helps a lot too!). But I appreciate your help tho!