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  #1    
Old February 19th, 2014 (1:40 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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    Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    -Stealth Rock
    -Rapid Spin
    -Gyro Ball
    -Volt Switch/spikes

    Cresselia @ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Trick Room
    - Moonlight

    Umbreon @ Maranga Berry
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Curse
    - Sucker Punch
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Considering:
    Sylveon @ Leftovers:
    Ability: Pixilate
    EVs: 252 HP/ 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Bold Nature
    -Wish
    -Protect\ Baton pass...?
    -Hyper Voice
    -Heal Bell/Calm Mind

    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Protect
    - Substitute
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic

    Milotic @ Leftovers
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Def / 100 SAtk / 56 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Haze / Dragon Tail
    - Recover
    - Mirror Coat
    - Scald

    Ampharos-Mega (M) @ Ampharosite
    Ability: Static => Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Heal Bell\ Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Dragon Pulse
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      #2    
    Old February 19th, 2014 (4:06 PM).
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      It needs something... I can see it, I can feel it! It needs/require/wants a trick-room. The best choice is to put in Cresselia. or take out Milotic or charizard. Then put it on one of your new mon's. Your pokemons are generally slow, so if you play trick room it will let you to "probably" attack first.

      I just notices that a Clawitzer or a MegaBlastoise can blow them all (except Milotic). It has weakness in Fighting and Ice
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        #3    
      Old February 19th, 2014 (4:28 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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      Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
         
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        I see where you're going with trick room...for some of my team they would love to go first(Gliscor, Milotic Cresselia, Forrestres), but it contradicts Umbreon's Payback and is none too good for Charizard so it does require me to be rid of one of them... I'll definitely consider it; it's a really good move for most of my team
        I'm not terribly concerned about clawitzer; OHKO by Charizard's Solarbeam just stalled out by milotic.But mega blastoise is a problem...maybe a Roserade or Meganium? both are great leech stallers and have Aromatherapy...
        Ice and fire weakness is countered by Charizard, which it makes it so hard to replace him!
        Thanks for that advice; haven't considered a lot of what you said
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        Old February 19th, 2014 (4:33 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Wyrdfell View Post
          I see where you're going with trick room...for some of my team they would love to go first(Gliscor, Milotic Cresselia, Forrestres), but it contradicts Umbreon's Payback and is none too good for Charizard so it does require me to be rid of one of them... I'll definitely consider it; it's a really good move for most of my team
          I'm not terribly concerned about clawitzer; OHKO by Charizard's Solarbeam just stalled out by milotic.But mega blastoise is a problem...maybe a Roserade or Meganium? both are great stallers and have Aromatherapy
          This is just a quick reply since im cooking right now. You might have to take out charizard, and put Mega Ampharos, or Mega Mawile. Also for umbreom and payback... you can switch it for sucker punch !
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            #5    
          Old February 19th, 2014 (4:53 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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            Sucker punch is perfect, didn't know Umbreon has that...I'll change that right now
            honestly I don't know much about Ampharos,I'll have to look into that
            Thanks a ton; Mega Ampharos is perfect for trick room and the team
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              #6    
            Old February 19th, 2014 (4:59 PM).
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              I am really, really sorry =(. I just realized umbreon doesn't learn sucker punch. It was absol who was able to learn it . Anyways Foul play works too. It does learn it, in gen 4... it requires a move tutor
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                #7    
              Old February 19th, 2014 (5:13 PM).
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              Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
                 
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                Thanks for that amazing advice, I've replaced Charizard with Ampharos and got trick room...I would have never considered this strategy
                The team probably needs more tweeking, but this is really good progress
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                  #8    
                Old February 19th, 2014 (5:18 PM).
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                A couple of other things:

                Don't run 3 entry hazards on Forretress. You usually don't need that many hazards, and it's total Taunt and set-up bait. swap a hazard with Volt Switch or Gyro Ball.

                Gliscor's EV spread should be 252 HP, 248 Defense, 12 Speed. No amount of Sp.Defense EVs will save it from special attacks. And give it an Impish nature.
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                  #9    
                Old February 19th, 2014 (5:20 PM).
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                Forretress is massive setup bait. I wouldn't recommend it having all 3 entry hazards + Rapid Spin for this reason alone:
                -Spikes/Stealth Rock
                -Rapid Spin
                -Gyro Ball
                -Earthquake/Volt Switch
                Nature: Relaxed
                EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
                Item: Leftovers

                Klefki and Espeon get the nod ahead of Cresselia as dual screeners because the former has Prankster to ensure it gets a screen or a layer of Spikes up before it gets Taunted, while the latter can't be Taunted altogether thanks to Magic Bounce, among other things:

                Klefki:
                -Reflect
                -Light Screen
                -Spikes
                -Dazzling Gleam/Foul Play
                Nature: Bold
                EVs: 252 HP/152 Def/104 SDef
                Item: Light Clay
                Ability: Prankster

                Espeon:
                -Reflect
                -Light Screen
                -Psychic/Psyshock
                -Hidden Power (Fire)/Dazzling Gleam/Baton Pass
                Nature: Timid
                EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
                Item: Light Clay
                Ability: Magic Bounce

                Gliscor is better off with an Impish nature. Even with specially defensive investment, it still folds to strong Water and Ice moves:
                -Earthquake
                -Substitute
                -Protect/Taunt
                -Toxic
                Nature: Impish
                EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
                Item: Toxic Orb
                Abiilty: Poison Heal

                or
                -Stealth Rock/Taunt
                -Earthquake
                -U-turn/Knock Off
                -Protect/Roost
                Nature: Impish
                EVs: 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe
                Item: Toxic Orb
                Ability: Poison Heal

                I don't recommend Umbreon at all. It's outclassed as a bulky Dark Pokemon in general by Mandibuzz, who has more utility options, and as a Wish user by Vaporeon and Sylveon (the former passes bigger Wishes, while the latter has Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voices to pose more as an offensive threat if it has to):

                Mandibuzz:
                -Foul Play
                -Roost
                -Taunt/Whirlwind
                -Defog/Toxic/Knock Off
                Nature: Bold/Impish
                EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
                Item: Leftovers
                Ability: Overcoat

                Vaporeon:
                -Wish
                -Protect
                -Scald
                -Ice Beam/Toxic/Roar
                Nature: Bold
                EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
                Item: Leftovers
                Ability: Water Absorb

                Sylveon:
                -Wish
                -Protect
                -Hyper Voice
                -Heal Bell/Calm Mind
                Nature: Bold
                EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/12 Spe
                Item: Leftovers
                Ability: Pixilate

                I also wouldn't recommend Milotic on the team. It doesn't have much that makes it stand out from other Water Pokemon. I think that Greninja or Keldeo are better fits on the team because this team needs some sort of offensive muscle outside of Charizard:

                Greninja:
                -Hydro Pump/Surf
                -Ice Beam/Dark Pulse
                -Extrasensory/Dark Pulse
                -U-turn/Hidden Power (Grass/Fire)/Grass Knot
                Nature: Naive/Timid
                EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
                Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt
                Ability: Protean

                or
                -Spikes
                -Hydro Pump/Surf
                -Ice Beam
                -Extrasensory/U-turn
                Nature: Timid
                EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
                Item: Life Orb/Focus Sash

                Keldeo:
                -Hydro Pump
                -Secret Sword
                -Icy Wind
                -Hidden Power (Flying/Electric)/Surf/Scald
                Nature: Timid
                EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
                Item: Life Orb/Choice Scarf

                or
                -Calm Mind
                -Hydro Pump/Scald
                -Secret Sword
                -Hidden Power (Ghost)/Icy Wind
                Nature: Timid
                EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
                Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry

                I don't think Charizard Y is suited for this team, as its Drought will end up weakening the Water moves of whatever Water Pokemon you pick. Charizard X is the better option, IMO. While you did go with Ampharos, Charizard X is something else you can consider:
                -Dragon Dance
                -Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
                -Dragon Claw/Outrage
                -Earthquake/Roost
                Nature: Jolly/Adamant
                EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
                Item: Charizardite X
                Ability: Blaze

                or
                -Fire Punch
                -Dragon Claw
                -Will-o-Wisp
                -Roost
                Nature: Jolly
                EVs: 248 HP/84 SDef/176 Spe
                Item: Charizardite X
                Ability: Blaze

                Also, here's what Mega Ampharos should look like:
                -Rest
                -Sleep Talk
                -Volt Switch
                -Dragon Pulse
                Nature: Modest
                EVs: 252 HP/44 SAtk/192 SDef/20 Spe
                Item: Ampharosite
                Ability: Static

                or
                -Volt Switch
                -Dragon Pulse
                -Focus Blast
                -Thunderbolt/Discharge/Heal Bell
                Nature: Modest
                EVs: 236 HP/252 SAtk/20 Spe
                Item: Ampharosite
                Ability: Static
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                  #10    
                Old February 19th, 2014 (5:23 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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                Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
                   
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                  @ No Chance Without Zekrom: Okay, so replace toxic spikes with gyro ball, yes?
                  SDef could save him from neutral special attacks, but yeah, of its ice beam or light cannon or such there's no chance...

                  @PlatinumDude:
                  It's really difficult--really-- difficult to give up milotic; it's my favorite pokemon by far. Strategically, Milotic has mirror coat and is a good hazer which makes it stand out a bit, but I do see yours-- and Smogon's-- Point
                  Trusting your expertise you seem to show, I'll tweek Gliscor and Forretres and Ampharos according to your advice and re-considered Umbreon;I admit there are better pokemon (vaporeon, sylveon,mandibuzz,etc.) Out there
                  I'm not positive on of klefki or espepn has trick room, but as Krystia said, my team would want it
                  Thanks very much for your really lengthy reply; I really appreciate it
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                    #11    
                  Old February 19th, 2014 (5:28 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by PlatinumDude.
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Wyrdfell View Post
                  Okay, so replace toxic spikes with gyro ball, yes?
                  SDef could save him from neutral special attacks, but yeah, of its ice beam or light cannon or such there's no chance...
                  Not just that. Replace one of your other hazards with Earthquake or Volt Switch.

                  And it's "Flash Cannon", not "Light Cannon".

                  @Krystia: not all slow teams need Trick Room. The team has to be built around the move (which this team doesn't look like it is), instead of the move being slapped on the team with little to no thought at all.

                  Edit: here's a standalone Trick Room setter in Reuniclus. It helps vs. offensive teams:
                  -Trick Room
                  -Psychic/Psyshock
                  -Shadow Ball
                  -Hidden Power (Fire)/Focus Blast
                  Nature: Quiet
                  EVs: 192 HP/64 Def/252 SAtk
                  Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
                  Ability: Magic Guard

                  Porygon2 can also act as backup, but find someone else to take out:
                  -Trick Room
                  -Ice Beam
                  -Thunderbolt
                  -Recover/Tri Attack
                  Nature: Quiet
                  EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 SDef
                  Item: Eviolite
                  Ability: Download/Trace
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                    #12    
                  Old February 19th, 2014 (6:15 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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                  Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
                     
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                    Cresselia has much more bulk than either of them, and acts as a dual screener too...
                    Yes, Trick room should be carefully considered, as it can turn out disastrous when used carelessly, but my team is generally slow and can get slower of need be... I'll try it out to test of it proves more good than bad

                    Favoring Sylveon, but I'm inexperienced with it...
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                      #13    
                    Old February 19th, 2014 (6:19 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Wyrdfell View Post
                    Cresselia has much more bulk than either of them, and acts as a dual screener too...
                    Yes, Trick room should be carefully considered, as it can turn out disastrous when used carelessly, but my team is generally slow and can get slower of need be... I'll try it out to test of it proves more good than bad
                    While Cresselia is bulky, it's just too fast for Trick Room. It's also seriously screwed by Taunt. Both Reuniclus and Porygon2 also pose more offensive presence than Cresselia do.

                    Moving on with your changes:

                    See my other Gliscor sets. It uses 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe with an Impish nature. While the Defense investment isn't much, this spread gives Gliscor enough Speed to outspeed +Speed base 90 Pokemon like regular Lucario.

                    See my comments about Milotic. There are better Pokemon out there than it. What KOs does Milotic prevent/achieve with your current spread?
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                    Old February 19th, 2014 (6:25 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by PlatinumDude View Post
                    While Cresselia is bulky, it's just too fast for Trick Room. It's also seriously screwed by Taunt. Both Reuniclus and Porygon2 also pose more offensive presence than Cresselia do.

                    Moving on with your changes:

                    See my other Gliscor sets. It uses 244 HP/40 Def/224 Spe with an Impish nature. While the Defense investment isn't much, this spread gives Gliscor enough Speed to outspeed +Speed base 90 Pokemon like regular Lucario.

                    See my comments about Milotic. There are better Pokemon out there than it. What KOs does Milotic prevent/achieve with your current spread?
                    If he's gonna stick with Trick Room, the Speed EVs on Gliscor are a bit detrimental. And it sounds like he really wants to use Milotic. Though he should use a different set; what he's currently got is kinda inefficient at anything.
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                      #15    
                    Old February 19th, 2014 (6:28 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by No Chance Without Zekrom View Post
                    If he's gonna stick with Trick Room, the Speed EVs on Gliscor are a bit detrimental. And it sounds like he really wants to use Milotic. Though he should use a different set; what he's currently got is kinda inefficient at anything.
                    What if Trick Room wears off before Gliscor comes in? Not all Pokemon in Trick Room teams have to be slow, you know; there has to be a fast attacker or two should Trick Room wear off and if the primary Trick Room setters are gone.

                    Regarding Milotic, even if it's a favorite, I still don't see it performing well in OU.
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                      #16    
                    Old February 19th, 2014 (6:45 PM). Edited February 19th, 2014 by Wyrdfell.
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                    Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
                       
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                      My Milotic has been the deciding winning factor in quite a few battles I've had; Dragon tail has ended a few attempts at boosting, and mirror coat has beat the likes of Gengar and Thundurus. Milotic is not as terrible as you see it to be.
                      Concerning Trick Room, I do not have enough experience with it to argue it's effectiveness, which is why I've made this thread
                      Mirror Coat proof: 52 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Milotic: 224-266 (56.8 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
                      If mirror coat lands out is a OHKO
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                        #17    
                      Old February 19th, 2014 (6:50 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by Wyrdfell View Post
                      My Milotic has been the deciding winning factor in quite a few battles I've had; Dragon tail has ended a few attempts at boosting, and mirror coat has beat the likes of Gengar and Thundurus. Milotic is not as terrible as you see it to be.
                      Vaporeon can still phaze with Roar. Mirror Coat takes prediction and the wrong time can result in Milotic as setup bait. I still stand my point that Milotic isn't as good as it used to be in Gen III; it's only a niche Pokemon this time around.

                      Still, if it's working out for you, by all means, go for Milotic, but take this point above into consideration.

                      Edit: Trick Room is best suited for doubles and VGC formats, where the fast pace there makes it more effective. In Singles, Trick Room has a tendency to get stalled out, and keeping your TR setters alive is a big priority. If you can't handle that, you may as well use a different kind of team.
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                        #18    
                      Old February 19th, 2014 (6:58 PM).
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                      Wyrdfell Wyrdfell is offline
                         
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                        I'll use the current team, of I find flaws like trick room and such,I will definitely consider all the above that's been given
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