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  #1    
Old 1 Week Ago (2:56 AM).
osmyth osmyth is offline
     
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    As per previous posts I'm trying to help my son create his first deck. He was set on using Snorlax GX but after looking at a number of SUM/GRI set reviews with him he likes the look of Drampa GX and as he has some Yveltal we thought the following deck would suit (as it seems to be getting play in Japan).

    This is from Omnipoke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwsYZctw2E

    2 Yveltal-EX 2 Yveltal 2 Drampa-GX 2 Alolan Grimer 2 Alolan Muk 2 Tapu Lele-GX 1 Shaymin-EX
    4 Professor Sycamore 3 N 2 Lysandre 1 Hex Maniac 1 Olympia 1 Pokemon Fan Club
    4 VS Seeker 4 Ultra Ball 4 Max Elixir 2 Trainer's Mail 3 Choice Band 4 Altar of the Moone
    10 Dark Energy 4 DCE.

    Now, the issue I have is that quite a few cards are (very) expensive, so we won't be getting those.

    Therefore,
    Please could you give opinions on the above.
    Please could you suggest alternatives for Shaymin, Tapu Lele, VS Seeker and Max Elixir. This is due to the cost; I don't want to spend a lot of money if the enthusiasm doesn't last. Also would be looking at alternatives for those rotating out in a few months.

    Initially I'd like him to learn the initial set up for the first few turns, so could that mean more of Yveltal/Yveltal-EX/Energies?
    Could you play Rayquaza GRI as well as Yveltal?
    Maybe Nest Ball, Special Charge, Kukui, Hala (if using Drampa's GX attack early), Field Blower?

    Thanks.
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    Old 1 Week Ago (3:35 PM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
    As per previous posts I'm trying to help my son create his first deck. He was set on using Snorlax GX but after looking at a number of SUM/GRI set reviews with him he likes the look of Drampa GX and as he has some Yveltal we thought the following deck would suit (as it seems to be getting play in Japan).

    This is from Omnipoke
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwsYZctw2E

    2 Yveltal-EX 2 Yveltal 2 Drampa-GX 2 Alolan Grimer 2 Alolan Muk 2 Tapu Lele-GX 1 Shaymin-EX
    4 Professor Sycamore 3 N 2 Lysandre 1 Hex Maniac 1 Olympia 1 Pokemon Fan Club
    4 VS Seeker 4 Ultra Ball 4 Max Elixir 2 Trainer's Mail 3 Choice Band 4 Altar of the Moone
    10 Dark Energy 4 DCE.

    Now, the issue I have is that quite a few cards are (very) expensive, so we won't be getting those.

    Therefore,
    Please could you give opinions on the above.
    Please could you suggest alternatives for Shaymin, Tapu Lele, VS Seeker and Max Elixir. This is due to the cost; I don't want to spend a lot of money if the enthusiasm doesn't last. Also would be looking at alternatives for those rotating out in a few months.

    Initially I'd like him to learn the initial set up for the first few turns, so could that mean more of Yveltal/Yveltal-EX/Energies?
    Could you play Rayquaza GRI as well as Yveltal?
    Maybe Nest Ball, Special Charge, Kukui, Hala (if using Drampa's GX attack early), Field Blower?

    Thanks.
    Imo any Drampa deck should be running Hala. Field Blower can be used as an anti-Garb tech, play without it and see what happens. Nest Ball isn't great in decks with Shaymin and/or Lele, but if you are subbing those out go ahead and play a couple.

    The reason those cards are expensive is because they have no viable replacements. On a budget, feel free to drop Lele and Shay. It might screw over your turn 1 setup, but the deck should run fine without it, especially off the back of a T1 Big Wheel GX. No need to buy 3 50+$ cards for a first deck. If you want a replacement for Max Elixir, you need to open the deck to Expanded Format and run Dark Patch. In standard, there is no substitute for Max Elixir. VS Seeker you just need to have at least a couple. VS Seeker is what gives you the freedom to run only one copy of Hex (which seems redundant w/ AlolaMuk anyway) and only two Lysandre. If you decide to drop Seekers (don't), at least replace them with more Supporters.

    In other news, Alolamuk seems weird in this deck (there is a reason I don't go on Omnipoke) because the abilities it cancels (Read: Lele and Shay's and not terribly much else) don't threaten the deck any more than the next one. The abilities you want to cancel if you are cancelling abilities are your Feather Arrow (Decidueye GX) or Giant Water Shuriken (Greninja BREAK) or Ultra Road (Solgaleo GX) or, most importantly, EVIL DEATH POWDER OF ITEMSTOPPING (Vileplume). Unless I'm missing something terribly important, I'd kill the AlolaMuk line in favor of Garbodor and just run a Yveltal/Garbodor deck like it's still 2K16.

    Only other thing I might tech in is a Rainbow Energy or three, as they drop one damage counter on the Pokémon it gets attached to, powering up Drampa's Berserk attack to a more respectable 150 damage.

    So here is my revised list:
    3 Yveltal-EX
    2 Yveltal
    2 Drampa-GX
    2 Trubbish
    2 Garbodor (the Garbotoxin one from BKP)
    3 Professor Sycamore
    2 N
    2 Hala
    2 Lysandre
    1 Hex Maniac
    3 Float Stone
    2 EXP Share
    2 VS Seeker
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Nest Ball
    4 Max Elixir
    2 Trainer's Mail
    3 Choice Band
    4 Altar of the Moone
    8 Dark Energy
    3 Rainbow Energy
    4 DCE.

    I went down to 2 Seekers, although if you must they can be replaced by a Lysandre and a Hex. The 4 Elixirs are an absolute requirement for any Yveltal EX deck to function, which is why they are so expensive. I dumped Olympia as well, you're running Altar of the Moone. The new shiny Float Stones are to help Garbodork, as it requires a Tool for the ability lock to function. EXP Share just helps, trust me here. Also check my counting because I counted it in my head and I don't trust myself.

    My other issue with the whole plan remains that this is VERY complicated for a intro deck. You need a ton of thought into what order to play your cards and similar. If you are just looking to start play at your local League (which I highly advise) , consider something with less card manipulation (or something that doesn't require Elixirs). Obviously most competitive decks have this problem, that's what makes them competitive, but this is moreso than some. Plus TurboDark is just better.

    The thing about Drampa is that it can be used in ANYTHING except like Quad Lapras. Honestly I'd consider running it with the GRI Garbodor because that thing is just really good. The issue with Drampa though is that the reason Drampa is a top-tier card is because it pairs well with Shaymin and Lele (especially Lele).

    If you have any more questions feel free to quote me or message!

    Also I'm going to assume from your first line that you read my totally helpful set review (which left Drampa out but that's beyond the point), so thanks for that
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      #3    
    Old 1 Week Ago (7:23 AM).
    osmyth osmyth is offline
       
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      Thanks for the reply.

      re Muk - I was going to leave this til the end re buying anyway. Having re-read things then you may be right about old Garbodor being better, but it may depend on the deck.
      http://pokemonaustralia.com/card-clash-comparing-the-new-and-the-old/

      re Rainbow Energy - yes, had thought of that as well, as a starter for Drampa.

      We've changed the plan quite a few times re what the deck should look like, so I don't think he'd take too kindly to me saying it should be 'simpler'. I think we'll just go with it and it will be a good learning exercise; he's bright so should pick it up!

      Appreciate the staple cards are expensive for a reason, so will be looking for cards that can at least do some of those functions, without breaking the bank.
      Am also wary of buying BKT/BKP when there is a slim chance they will be rotated out.
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      Old 1 Week Ago (12:26 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
      Thanks for the reply.

      re Muk - I was going to leave this til the end re buying anyway. Having re-read things then you may be right about old Garbodor being better, but it may depend on the deck.
      http://pokemonaustralia.com/card-clash-comparing-the-new-and-the-old/

      re Rainbow Energy - yes, had thought of that as well, as a starter for Drampa.

      We've changed the plan quite a few times re what the deck should look like, so I don't think he'd take too kindly to me saying it should be 'simpler'. I think we'll just go with it and it will be a good learning exercise; he's bright so should pick it up!

      Appreciate the staple cards are expensive for a reason, so will be looking for cards that can at least do some of those functions, without breaking the bank.
      Am also wary of buying BKT/BKP when there is a slim chance they will be rotated out.
      BKT is the only one in threat there, BKP was the February 2016 set, so its safe. Honestly though, if they kill off BKT I will be very surprised.
      Also the rotation is in September. You still have all summer regardless.

      Muk is just not good in this format. It blocks Shay, Lele, and not much else. I suppose it could be useful in decks if all else fails. Honestly, because Field Blower exists, the current play is more often to either run a low count of Garbodork to counter Greninja or just not run it at all in favor of, you guessed it, more Trainers (and also Darkrai EX).

      Speaking of Darkrai EX, you probably will want one of those guys as well. Its kinda what makes Turbodark work, even if this isn't really TurboDark. I mean, the easiest way to fix this (helps the difficulty a lot as well) is just to run straight TurboDark w/ Yveltal. Its a tier 1 deck, and you can throw in Drampa for teh lulz if you really want. The main downside is doing this makes those 4 Max Elixirs absolutely mandatory.

      The simpler aspect is personal I suppose, and I can understand him not taking too kindly too it. I just know kid me (also very bright) would have taken a loooong time to understand Yveltal/Garb. It is doable, but you really need to play that deck very differently depending on the matchup. If you're playing Greninja, Garb is a huge priority. Against DeciduPlume it is even bigger, because once Vileplume gets up you can no longer drop the needed tool until you use a Hex Maniac and Deci will be killing it from the bench. In a mirror, Garb is deadweight except to block Shaymins and Leles. Is the opponent running Jolteon EX? You need to have access to either Lysandre or Ranger (not in the above list but w/e) every single turn or you lose, which is why those VS Seekers are so important. Playing against Zebstrika/Vespiquen? You lose and you can't do anything about it. Playing against something you've never seen? You need to figure out what to do and FAST.

      There is no card that does what VS Seeker does. I checked. Sorry about that. Max Elixir I suppose could be subbed for Ether (I think that's what its called), which is the same thing just a LOT worse.

      I guess the primary unanswered question is: "What is this deck going to be for?" Are you trying to X-0 a League Challenge? You will need to invest in good trainers. Trying to win Regionals? Those Shaymin/Lele are really helpful. But if you are just playing with your friends or at a local league, you can afford to skip some more expensive stuff (or you could just run a deck that's more fun to play than Yveltal).

      Last recommendation I would have if you are concerned about cost is Proxying. Try before you buy effectively. Print some cards off the internet, throw them in a sleeve (I'm assuming you're sleeving this deck) with any card behind it, and use those for testing. Some leagues allow them for causal play (mine does), but you can also use this to build multiple decks easily so you can test different matchups. I always got my proxies from http://www.bebessearch.com/PrintProxies.aspx when I played, but its not needed (I remember at one point taking a piece of napkin, writing Ultra Ball on it, and throwing that in a sleeve). Drawing your own proxies is sometimes fun too, usually ends up pretty hilarious.
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        #5    
      Old 1 Week Ago (3:29 AM).
      osmyth osmyth is offline
         
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        We had thought of Darkrai EX but ruled it out due to cost, may stretch to putting one in, or wait to Darkrai-GX.
        We have Yveltal/Yveltal EX/Drampa (and also Tauros actually), so just need to think about additional lines or more of the former.
        I know it seems petty but I don't want to spend money (however small) on something that may get rotated out. We almost have the cards for a deck now so happy to get this trialled and then adjust on the next expansion/rotation.
        The deck would be used in local tournaments, but he has aspirations to go to a Regional (they all seem to be Standard format in the UK). Am happy for him to start off with an uncompetitive deck as I think he'll learn a lot more about why he is losing and how the deck could change. However, he's a sore loser so..!
        I have created a second deck of generic dummy cards so we can play each other. Although that proxy site looks useful.

        Thanks for all your advice.
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          #6    
        Old 1 Week Ago (5:21 AM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
        As per previous posts I'm trying to help my son create his first deck. He was set on using Snorlax GX but after looking at a number of SUM/GRI set reviews with him he likes the look of Drampa GX and as he has some Yveltal we thought the following deck would suit (as it seems to be getting play in Japan).

        This is from Omnipoke
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwsYZctw2E

        2 Yveltal-EX 2 Yveltal 2 Drampa-GX 2 Alolan Grimer 2 Alolan Muk 2 Tapu Lele-GX 1 Shaymin-EX
        4 Professor Sycamore 3 N 2 Lysandre 1 Hex Maniac 1 Olympia 1 Pokemon Fan Club
        4 VS Seeker 4 Ultra Ball 4 Max Elixir 2 Trainer's Mail 3 Choice Band 4 Altar of the Moone
        10 Dark Energy 4 DCE.

        Now, the issue I have is that quite a few cards are (very) expensive, so we won't be getting those.

        Therefore,
        Please could you give opinions on the above.
        Please could you suggest alternatives for Shaymin, Tapu Lele, VS Seeker and Max Elixir. This is due to the cost; I don't want to spend a lot of money if the enthusiasm doesn't last. Also would be looking at alternatives for those rotating out in a few months.

        Initially I'd like him to learn the initial set up for the first few turns, so could that mean more of Yveltal/Yveltal-EX/Energies?
        Could you play Rayquaza GRI as well as Yveltal?
        Maybe Nest Ball, Special Charge, Kukui, Hala (if using Drampa's GX attack early), Field Blower?

        Thanks.
        There really are no alternatives to those cards. hence their price.

        As DDRox said as well, Yveltal isn't really a suited deck for newer players. If you're looking for a playble deck that doesnt break the bank check out budget quad Lapras builds (there's one that only runs 4 lapras, 10 energy and 36 supporters) or Passimian/Mew. VS seekers are your most needed items, you can get them cheap enough if you search around

        http://shop.tcgplayer.com/pokemon/xy-phantom-forces/vs-seeker


        there's a few on there below the 4 dollar mark
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        Old 1 Week Ago (1:23 PM).
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        What Hands said. Passimian/Mew is cheap (No Elixirs, Shay and Lele optional I suppose, but you still need a playset of VS Seeker), easy (Get a bunch of Passimian on the bench and start doing things), and fun (because monkeys). I budget that whole deck at ~$30 (with $16 of that being the Seekers). You can probably get away with running Drampa in there too. Plus, it has an 80/20 matchup against most TurboDark variants (I think) and a good matchup against many other top decks, although Decidueye and Lurantis variants are usually auto-losses.

        Hands for some reason still maintains that Quad Lapras is the best deck in the format, and barring the $8 each Lapras GX the deck is relatively cheap. You don't use Lele or Shaymin, although a Seeker or three is encouraged. Elixir is also encouraged, but can be swapped for Aqua Patches in a budget deck.

        Really though, if you must play 'Velt, do it right. You might be able to skimp on expensive cards in a deck that isn't as energy-consuming, but Yveltal absolutely NEEDS 4 each of Max Elixir and VS Seeker (or maybe 3 of the latter is tolerable), and it is hugely helped by Lele and Shaymin. Budget Yveltal isn't a thing for a reason.
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        Old 1 Week Ago (11:33 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Decidueye View Post
        What Hands said. Passimian/Mew is cheap (No Elixirs, Shay and Lele optional I suppose, but you still need a playset of VS Seeker), easy (Get a bunch of Passimian on the bench and start doing things), and fun (because monkeys). I budget that whole deck at ~$30 (with $16 of that being the Seekers). You can probably get away with running Drampa in there too. Plus, it has an 80/20 matchup against most TurboDark variants (I think) and a good matchup against many other top decks, although Decidueye and Lurantis variants are usually auto-losses.

        Hands for some reason still maintains that Quad Lapras is the best deck in the format, and barring the $8 each Lapras GX the deck is relatively cheap. You don't use Lele or Shaymin, although a Seeker or three is encouraged. Elixir is also encouraged, but can be swapped for Aqua Patches in a budget deck.

        Really though, if you must play 'Velt, do it right. You might be able to skimp on expensive cards in a deck that isn't as energy-consuming, but Yveltal absolutely NEEDS 4 each of Max Elixir and VS Seeker (or maybe 3 of the latter is tolerable), and it is hugely helped by Lele and Shaymin. Budget Yveltal isn't a thing for a reason.
        Lapras isn't bdif anymore :< arguably Trashbags is.
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        Old 1 Week Ago (11:37 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
        The deck would be used in local tournaments, but he has aspirations to go to a Regional (they all seem to be Standard format in the UK). Am happy for him to start off with an uncompetitive deck as I think he'll learn a lot more about why he is losing and how the deck could change. However, he's a sore loser so..!

        Thanks for all your advice.
        If you're planning on regionals he will need those expensive staples. Regionals themselves arent cheap either, they're 2-3 day events that are time intensive and the best players from Europe will often be present. If he's not a good loser and you don't have access to the staples then avoid regionals. He'll only end up auto losing each match and disappointed.

        Local league is a little different, there'll be many more novice/casual players there. People like me also use them to test decks that arent high end so him winning at locals is a lot more plausible, even without staples. I consistently top 8 at mine and haven't played Shaymin in months.
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        Old 1 Week Ago (11:50 PM).
        osmyth osmyth is offline
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Hands View Post
          If you're planning on regionals he will need those expensive staples. Regionals themselves arent cheap either, they're 2-3 day events that are time intensive and the best players from Europe will often be present. If he's not a good loser and you don't have access to the staples then avoid regionals. He'll only end up auto losing each match and disappointed.

          Local league is a little different, there'll be many more novice/casual players there. People like me also use them to test decks that arent high end so him winning at locals is a lot more plausible, even without staples. I consistently top 8 at mine and haven't played Shaymin in months.
          Agreed, we wouldn't go to a Regional without a lot of practice and at least a deck that won't be humiliated.
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          Old 1 Week Ago (12:11 AM).
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          Agreed, we wouldn't go to a Regional without a lot of practice and at least a deck that won't be humiliated.
          When you feel you are ready to attend one, drop myself and/or ChariotsofThyer a PM or something. Me and him are currently planning on attending some UK ones.

          Sept is when rotation will happen and shaymin/VS seeker will go. Max Elixir is still in for another year however.
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          Old 1 Week Ago (11:44 PM).
          osmyth osmyth is offline
             
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            Hands, thanks, that's very considerate of you.

            So, as per the other thread we’ll do things properly.

            Based on 2 Yveltal-EX, 2 Yveltal O.Wing, 1 Drampa-GX, 1 Shaymin/Lele, which basics/lines would you add.
            We have Tauros-GX/Ninja Boy so would like to add that in I think.

            Had one vote for Muk and one for Garbodor.

            What about Eevee/Umbreon-GX, Yveltal Fright Night, Yveltal Break or Mew. Or something else?

            Thanks.
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            Old 1 Week Ago (12:10 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
            Hands, thanks, that's very considerate of you.

            So, as per the other thread we’ll do things properly.

            Based on 2 Yveltal-EX, 2 Yveltal O.Wing, 1 Drampa-GX, 1 Shaymin/Lele, which basics/lines would you add.
            We have Tauros-GX/Ninja Boy so would like to add that in I think.

            Had one vote for Muk and one for Garbodor.

            What about Eevee/Umbreon-GX, Yveltal Fright Night, Yveltal Break or Mew. Or something else?

            Thanks.
            Tauros works in anything, and Drampa can work in most things.

            Garb is problematic though these days because of field blower. You'd have to run a lot of tools to keep it useful, however Muk only hits basics. Fright Night Yveltal is good, but not as good as it was (GXs phasing out EXs, tool scrapping being in the game now)

            If you throw out a rough idea of your collection I'll help you build a deck that'll be playable
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            Old 1 Week Ago (12:27 AM).
            osmyth osmyth is offline
               
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              Hands, thanks.

              Will have a chat to my son tonight after work, and look at the cards.

              Not sure he'll take too kindly to being asked to change the deck again! Anyway, would need to convince him that it's in his best interests long term!

              Having said that - maybe we can go for Yveltal at this stage then sub out those lines come rotation and the next couple of expansions. I would think he'd want to build something around Drampa-GX and Tauros-GX. And I have probably taken up enough of your time already!

              He def has M Ray (Dragon), M Venusaur, M Latios and Xerneas Break.
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              Old 1 Week Ago (1:17 AM).
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
              Hands, thanks.

              Will have a chat to my son tonight after work, and look at the cards.

              Not sure he'll take too kindly to being asked to change the deck again! Anyway, would need to convince him that it's in his best interests long term!

              Having said that - maybe we can go for Yveltal at this stage then sub out those lines come rotation and the next couple of expansions. I would think he'd want to build something around Drampa-GX and Tauros-GX. And I have probably taken up enough of your time already!

              He def has M Ray (Dragon), M Venusaur, M Latios and Xerneas Break.
              Drampa and Tauros work well being colourless, they can fit in almost anywhere (both are usually present in the super popular new garbador decks) so those are really versatile cards.

              For Yveltal, you really, really need Max Elixir, even more than Shaymin. You can almost work around Shaymin at lower tables/juniors so long as you can speed that energy up
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              Old 6 Days Ago (11:23 PM).
              osmyth osmyth is offline
                 
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Hands View Post
                If you throw out a rough idea of your collection I'll help you build a deck that'll be playable
                Apologies, haven't checked if all these are valid in Standard yet.

                GX - Drampa, Tauros, Snorlax.
                EX - Gardevoir RC30, Xerneas XY07, M Ray Dragon 61/108, M Latios 59/108, Latios 58/108, Noivern Break 113/162, Ray XY73, Mewtwo XY183, Ho-Oh Break XY154, M Blastoise 18/83, Blastoise XY30, Kyogre XY41, Venusaur 1/146, M Ven 2/108, Audino 84/124.

                Thanks very much.
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                Old 6 Days Ago (11:32 PM).
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                Apologies, haven't checked if all these are valid in Standard yet.

                GX - Drampa, Tauros, Snorlax.
                EX - Gardevoir RC30, Xerneas XY07, M Ray Dragon 61/108, M Latios 59/108, Latios 58/108, Noivern Break 113/162, Ray XY73, Mewtwo XY183, Ho-Oh Break XY154, M Blastoise 18/83, Blastoise XY30, Kyogre XY41, Venusaur 1/146, M Ven 2/108, Audino 84/124.

                Thanks very much.
                I THINK these are all still in except maybe Xerneas EX.

                Do you just have the x1 of each?
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                  #18    
                Old 6 Days Ago (11:35 PM).
                osmyth osmyth is offline
                   
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                  Yes, don't have multiple, except Yveltal EX, which I missed off.

                  Sounds like it's easier to just start from scratch with 'something', as it only saves on real cost if you string a couple of these existing ones together.
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                    #19    
                  Old 6 Days Ago (12:16 AM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
                  Yes, don't have multiple, except Yveltal EX, which I missed off.

                  Sounds like it's easier to just start from scratch with 'something', as it only saves on real cost if you string a couple of these existing ones together.
                  Yeah I was gonna say, the game runs on consistency, you'll have a really hard time with just a series of one-ofs.
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                    #20    
                  Old 6 Days Ago (12:33 AM).
                  osmyth osmyth is offline
                     
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                    Thanks.
                    Is it best just picking something which would work with Drampa-GX, from the newer cards.
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                      #21    
                    Old 6 Days Ago (1:21 AM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by osmyth View Post
                    Thanks.
                    Is it best just picking something which would work with Drampa-GX, from the newer cards.
                    Possibly yeah, Garb works well with it and is just a regular rare. They're usually about 2-4 quid a piece
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