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Team-Building Workshop

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PlatinumDude

Nyeh?
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KimbosUnova said:
Followed your advice, came up with the below
Spoiler:


Can't see an obvious weakness however still happy to take all feedback.
Click to expand...

Lele's Speed is actually decent so you can get away with max Speed instead of max HP. Sure, it's got decent special bulk, but it's rather physically frail, though its typing makes up for it somewhat.

Fire/Dragon has excellent coverage together, so Charizard X should use both Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw. Greninja can already handle Heatran. If you really want to keep Earthquake though, use it over Roost.

I don't see the point of HP Ice on Celesteela other than to hit Garchomp and Therian Landorus, neither of which like to get worn down by Leech Seed. Celesteela is also the best user of Heavy Slam, as it's the heaviest user of the move:
-Heavy Slam
-Flamethrower
-Leech Seed
-Protect
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers

Even though sandstorm is detrimental to most of the team, Sand Stream is still the better ability for Tyranitar so it can come in on Charizard Y more easily by disrupting and weakening its Solar Beam or taking a pittance from its Fire STAB thanks to the Special Defense buff that sandstorm gives to Rock Pokemon.

CinnamonPichu said:
I've created a wicked core of Lopunny, Aegislash, and Cresselia, who compliment each other nicely (If I see a fighting type as Lopunny, I switch to Aegislash, if I see a ground type as Aegislash, I switch to Cresselia for levitate, If I see a dark type, I switch to Lopunny.) But I'm having trouble deciding what to use for one of the slots. I need a SP.D wall who can check or counter Talonflame, any ideas? Also the stats on the Lopunny, Cresselia, and Aegislash are as shown

Cupcake (Lopunny) @ Lopunnite
Fake out, HJK, Ice punch, Return
Jolly, 252 Spe, 252 Atk, 4 SP.D

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Psychic, Moonblast, Moonlight, Calm mind
Bold, 252 Def, 252 HP, 4 SP.D

Aegislash @ Focus sash
Kings shield, Swords dance, Shadow sneak, Iron head
Adamant 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Def
Click to expand...
I'll assume this is for Battle Spot.

Lopunny's pre-Mega ability should be Limber so it can come in on predicted Thunder Waves/Stun Spores/Glares safely before it Mega Evolves.

Swords Dance + King's Shield isn't the best strategy for Aegislash because it's rather predictable. It's best played with all-out attacking or a Swords Dance set without King's Shield. It can also use a mean SubToxic set to stall out the walls its offensive sets struggle to break through:
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon/Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak
-King's Shield
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SAtk
Item: Ghostium Z/Weakness Policy/Spell Tag/Spooky Plate/Leftovers

or
-Substitute
-Toxic
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
Nature: Modest
EVs: 204 HP/164 SAtk/140 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Claw/Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
Nature: Adamant/Brave
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
Item: Life Orb/Weakness Policy/Leftovers/Ghostium Z

Tyranitar is one of the best Talonflame counters out there, though you have to be wary of the weaknesses it shares with Lopunny and Aegislash:
-Stealth Rock/Pursuit
-Rock Tomb/Stone Edge
-Ice Punch
-Superpower/Crunch/Earthquake
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lum Berry/Assault Vest/Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream

or
-Rock Slide/Rock Tomb
-Pursuit
-Foul Play
-Thunder Wave/Crunch/Stealth Rock
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/44 Atk/4 Def/204 SDef/4 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
 
Last edited:
wolf

wolf

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  • Age 27
  • Seen yesterday
KimbosUnova said:
Followed your advice, came up with the below
Spoiler:


Can't see an obvious weakness however still happy to take all feedback.
Click to expand...
I agree with PlatinumDude's changes, but physically defensive Celesteela might be worth keeping. Specially defensive Celesteela is generally better, but this team already has Mew for switching into Tapu Lele's Psychic so you can probably afford to run a physically defensive spread. Test both of them.

Adamant Charizard might be OK, but if you find yourself getting revenge killed by Scarf Tapu Lele a lot, switch to Jolly.

Thunderbolt is redundant with Specs Tapu Lele due to the sheer power of Psychic. A better move in that slot would be Psyshock for damaging special walls like Chansey and hitting Assault Vest Magearna harder than Psychic. Focus Blast is an option too for Magearna and Heatran, but it's very unreliable.

Be mindful that Scarf Tyranitar can't outrun +1 Volcarona or Mega Charizard X. However, it can take a hit from Volcarona that don't have Bug Buzz if it's kept healthy. Charizard is a problem though. Scarf Terrakion or Garchomp might be better suited for this team, which can both outrun +1 Charizard. Terrakion can also tank one unboosted Dragon Claw in a worst case scenario.

Consider Soft-Boiled over U-turn. It's really passive but Soft-Boiled is probably necessary for switching in repeatedly to Defog. I also like this spread more: Bold and 240 HP / 72 Def / 140 SpD / 56 Spe. Walls Mega Medicham more effectively.

Also look into adding another Water resist. Maybe Rotom-W over Celesteela?
 
Kimborelli

Kimborelli

203
Posts
11
Years
wolf said:
I agree with PlatinumDude's changes, but physically defensive Celesteela might be worth keeping. Specially defensive Celesteela is generally better, but this team already has Mew for switching into Tapu Lele's Psychic so you can probably afford to run a physically defensive spread. Test both of them.

Adamant Charizard might be OK, but if you find yourself getting revenge killed by Scarf Tapu Lele a lot, switch to Jolly.

Thunderbolt is redundant with Specs Tapu Lele due to the sheer power of Psychic. A better move in that slot would be Psyshock for damaging special walls like Chansey and hitting Assault Vest Magearna harder than Psychic. Focus Blast is an option too for Magearna and Heatran, but it's very unreliable.

Be mindful that Scarf Tyranitar can't outrun +1 Volcarona or Mega Charizard X. However, it can take a hit from Volcarona that don't have Bug Buzz if it's kept healthy. Charizard is a problem though. Scarf Terrakion or Garchomp might be better suited for this team, which can both outrun +1 Charizard. Terrakion can also tank one unboosted Dragon Claw in a worst case scenario.

Consider Soft-Boiled over U-turn. It's really passive but Soft-Boiled is probably necessary for switching in repeatedly to Defog. I also like this spread more: Bold and 240 HP / 72 Def / 140 SpD / 56 Spe. Walls Mega Medicham more effectively.

Also look into adding another Water resist. Maybe Rotom-W over Celesteela?
Click to expand...

PlatinumDude said:
Lele's Speed is actually decent so you can get away with max Speed instead of max HP. Sure, it's got decent special bulk, but it's rather physically frail, though its typing makes up for it somewhat.

Fire/Dragon has excellent coverage together, so Charizard X should use both Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw. Greninja can already handle Heatran. If you really want to keep Earthquake though, use it over Roost.

I don't see the point of HP Ice on Celesteela other than to hit Garchomp and Therian Landorus, neither of which like to get worn down by Leech Seed. Celesteela is also the best user of Heavy Slam, as it's the heaviest user of the move:
-Heavy Slam
-Flamethrower
-Leech Seed
-Protect
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers

Even though sandstorm is detrimental to most of the team, Sand Stream is still the better ability for Tyranitar so it can come in on Charizard Y more easily by disrupting and weakening its Solar Beam or taking a pittance from its Fire STAB thanks to the Special Defense buff that sandstorm gives to Rock Pokemon.


I'll assume this is for Battle Spot.

Lopunny's pre-Mega ability should be Limber so it can come in on predicted Thunder Waves/Stun Spores/Glares safely before it Mega Evolves.

Swords Dance + King's Shield isn't the best strategy for Aegislash because it's rather predictable. It's best played with all-out attacking or a Swords Dance set without King's Shield. It can also use a mean SubToxic set to stall out the walls its offensive sets struggle to break through:
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon/Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak
-King's Shield
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SAtk
Item: Ghostium Z/Weakness Policy/Spell Tag/Spooky Plate/Leftovers

or
-Substitute
-Toxic
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
Nature: Modest
EVs: 204 HP/164 SAtk/140 Spe
Item: Leftovers

or
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Claw/Iron Head
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
Nature: Adamant/Brave
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SDef
Item: Life Orb/Weakness Policy/Leftovers/Ghostium Z

Tyranitar is one of the best Talonflame counters out there, though you have to be wary of the weaknesses it shares with Lopunny and Aegislash:
-Stealth Rock/Pursuit
-Rock Tomb/Stone Edge
-Ice Punch
-Superpower/Crunch/Earthquake
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Lum Berry/Assault Vest/Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream

or
-Rock Slide/Rock Tomb
-Pursuit
-Foul Play
-Thunder Wave/Crunch/Stealth Rock
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP/44 Atk/4 Def/204 SDef/4 Spe
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Click to expand...

Taken both the above under consideration, and noticed a big water weakness. Did make some of the suggested changes though, and am now running the following:
Spoiler:
 

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?
12,964
Posts
13
Years
KimbosUnova said:
Taken both the above under consideration, and noticed a big water weakness. Did make some of the suggested changes though, and am now running the following:
Spoiler:
Click to expand...

Because Celesteela is using a physical attack, it's better that you go Relaxed so that Heavy Slam's power isn't reduced.

The power loss of using Scarf Bulu compared to Band Bulu is pretty noticeable, so you might want to have it use Wood Hammer alongside Horn Leech, preferably over Megahorn or Stone Edge. Wood Hammer can OHKO Unaware Clefable after Stealth Rock, something Horn Leech can't do. Wood Hammer also has a chance to OHKO Garchomp, too, which Horn Leech lacks. Horn Leech is more of a late-game attack or when Tapu Bulu needs to restore HP at low health:

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 351-414 (89 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 309-364 (86.3 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 195-229 (54.4 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
 
Kimborelli

Kimborelli

203
Posts
11
Years
PlatinumDude said:
Because Celesteela is using a physical attack, it's better that you go Relaxed so that Heavy Slam's power isn't reduced.

The power loss of using Scarf Bulu compared to Band Bulu is pretty noticeable, so you might want to have it use Wood Hammer alongside Horn Leech, preferably over Megahorn or Stone Edge. Wood Hammer can OHKO Unaware Clefable after Stealth Rock, something Horn Leech can't do. Wood Hammer also has a chance to OHKO Garchomp, too, which Horn Leech lacks. Horn Leech is more of a late-game attack or when Tapu Bulu needs to restore HP at low health:

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 351-414 (89 - 105%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable in Grassy Terrain: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 309-364 (86.3 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 195-229 (54.4 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Click to expand...

Am I trying to get too much out of Bulu, as my main water resist and my scarfer ? Am I better swapping my defensive poke to something than can take on water types easier, like Ferro, and running ScarfChomp ?
 
Thunderflare

Thunderflare

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8
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  • Age 39
  • Seen Sep 25, 2017
I leave for half a year and missed this? Sounds pretty cool. I've made a lot of teams and it's always good to get the opinions of others.

I always start with my favorite Pokemon and modify the team as needed (sometimes ditching a fave or two). My top five are: Golisopod, Crobat, Aegislash, Greninja, and Crustle. I'm thinking that a team that plays the priority game might be the best work with some of those. Crustle might not work out in that case. Would I need more to combat Psychic Terrain?
 

PlatinumDude

Nyeh?
12,964
Posts
13
Years
Thunderflare said:
I leave for half a year and missed this? Sounds pretty cool. I've made a lot of teams and it's always good to get the opinions of others.

I always start with my favorite Pokemon and modify the team as needed (sometimes ditching a fave or two). My top five are: Golisopod, Crobat, Aegislash, Greninja, and Crustle. I'm thinking that a team that plays the priority game might be the best work with some of those. Crustle might not work out in that case. Would I need more to combat Psychic Terrain?
Click to expand...
What tier are you playing at? Smogon OU? Battle Spot? VGC? What are your team's moves?

Golisopod is a rather priority-happy Pokemon, meaning that Tapu Lele can easily stop it in its tracks. Its Emergency Exit ability can be a hindrance, despite its good stats, because it forces it to switch out when it gets weakened. These reasons are why Golisopod isn't seen much in standard (OU) play.

I'm afraid that Greninja and Aegislash are the only viable Pokemon out of your top five. But Aegislash can't be used in Smogon OU because it's an Uber. In Battle Spot, it's okay to use Greninja and Aegislash together.
 
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