Where is racism today?

Magic Christmas Lights said:

Not to be offensive, but your post just basically stereotypes people as being all one way or another. Real life is usually much more ambiguous. :P

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Not that I have enough information about Australia to confirm that part, but there are still loads of Americans dwarrling around on the Internet.
In real life, we have lots of Islamitic people living here, in Europe, so I can accurately say about Europe and Arabs in general.
Of course I wasn't talking about all people in these groups, I was talking about the average.
In the end, no single person is equal, but you can still make an average measure out of it.

Europe is the birthplace of imperialist racist thought, and it's nowhere nearly as multicultural as North America, so perhaps there's some truth in what MKGirlism is saying. Europeans might think of immigration as invasion, as historically it's Europeans that did the immigrating. In North America, immigration is part of our identity. Nobody has a "blood claim" to this land (except for the natives I guess), but I can see that kind of argument being stronger in Europe.

Iranians aren't Arabs though, they don't even speak Arabic.

Well, I always thought every Muslim are classified as "Arab", but at the other hand, many Turkish people here say they aren't Arabs, even though they're Muslim.
It could be I'm wrong about it.

Yeah, that's a really big mistake, actually. I wouldn't want to go around perpetuating that misunderstanding if I were you. Islam is a religion, but being Arabic is being an ethnic group and speaking a certain language. There are Muslims that have an ethnic background from South and South-East Asia, and they certainly aren't Arabs.

I think some people classify Muslims as Arabs because they're ignorant and they have an agenda against Muslims. I don't listen to them because it's all propaganda, really, misleading people to think a certain way.

To say all Muslims are Arabs is incendiary to at least a minority from several groups, including Arab and non-Arab Muslims, as well as non-Muslim Arabs, since at least a small segment of each of these groups has some sense of either smug superiority or venomous hatred toward each of the other groups.

Racism does indeed exist today, it's just more subtle in America. It's societal and overt in many other parts of the world, though. Most racists will deny being racist if you confront them on it, however.

It's ignorant too though, blatant generalization. It's the same as saying all Christians are white.

The only way to be classified as Racist here, is when discriminating somebody based on skin colour, but for the most of the time, people here have a workaround for becoming angry about this.
I've met a couple of black people who I asked the question, "What do you say or do if somebody says "******"?".
Many of them told me they simply make fun of the ones who says that.
In the end, Racism is not prohibited, or something like that, people here rather look at it as something annoying.

In my opinion, everyone is a bit of a Racist, but it differs per person.
The one openly says they bloody hate them, the other only thinks about it, yet another one even loves them (positive Racism), etc.
And "them" being any Race other than you are, either specific, multiple, or all.

Edit: I didn't know there was a Word Filter on this Forum?

United Arab Emirates
- Religion: Muslim
- Language: Arabic

^ This. We generally tend to use the UAE and similar nations as a basis for Arabics and Muslims in a GOOD light since we see many Farsi-speaking regions as just "terrorists".

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Europe was NOT the basis of imperial racism. China was. China always was. Ironically, it got its butt handed to it BY imperial racism.

Rezilia said:

Europe was NOT the basis of imperial racism. China was. China always was. Ironically, it got its butt handed to it BY imperial racism.

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Because China exported racist anthropology to the west? Justified colonialism on a racial basis? I don't think those ideas came down the Silk Road. "Race" as we discuss it, as we use the term on a daily basis, is a modern European construct. Eastern - no, most cultures have never used the concept as defined and embodied by European imperialism. I don't know what reasoning you have to claim that "it came from China".

The Chinese do have a superiority complex, but this comes from a cultural background - which is mutable, not a racial background - which is biologically deterministic. Nobody cared how many quarters or eighth of you was Mongol, Tibetan, Hui, Han or whatever. There was never a concept of "racial hygiene", nor was racism ever rationalized scientifically.

Next time, include some support for you arguments.

I took a few classes on Chinese history in college and one thing I distinctly remember was that being Chinese, at least in ye olde days, was considered a cultural thing. Speak the language, be educated, and you were Chinese even if you had red hair.

Anyway, I'm still pushing the idea that there are two kinds of racism. There's the common definition of hatred or prejudice of certain races, and there's the institutional racism that pervades entire communities and affects people without necessarily being overt.

So, for instance, in America in the past we had poll taxes for voting. All you had to do was pay a fee and you could vote. Of course it ignored (intentionally) the fact that whites were much better off economically so the end result was to keep non-whites from voting. That's racism even though no one called any names or pointed fingers. That kind of racism is the kind that can't just be brushed aside or laughed at like you can do with some idiot spouting hatred on Youtube. That kind, I think, still persists in some way or another in most parts of the world.

Nymue said:

I think racism today is mostly about classism.

Here in Australia, the commonest form of racism I see is that of people who are uncomfortable around certain ethnic groups because of language barriers and especially because of their socio-economic backgrounds. That is, people who feel us-vs-them about other cultural groups are offended by kids who make a lot of noise, swear, and are poorly educated and seem aggressive or contrary on the whole; or annoyed by immigrants who aren't fluent in English and familiar with local etiquette, systems and rules.

Now, the same people who dislike these two groups aren't going to be as uncomfortable around someone well-educated from their own socioeconomic class, who just happens to be, say, indigenous, Asian, Arican, or what have you. Because the issue isn't really about skin colour or national origin. It's just culture difference, and classism.

I can only talk about what I've seen in my part of the world, in my (predominantly white) social groups.

But I do think classism is a major force in the modern economic world, and something we should be fighting just as hard as racism, if harder because it's an overlooked root problem. It's wrong to judge people based on the situation they were born into, just as much as it's wrong to judge them for their genetic traits.

Be aware of that socioeconomic factor. If you're uncomfortable about a broad group of people, not because of what they do but more because of who they are, that probably has something to do with it, more than racism does.

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One thing big about Australia is social class. It's not as bad as the UK or most of Europe, but it's worse than the US.

My family is lower middle class and most of my friends are either lower middle class or working class. A few are upper middle class. I have had mostly bad experiences with the well-to-do people. Several of my working class friends have been bullied by the rich kids.

I am SO GLAD there is no aristocracy in Australia. I've heard nightmare stories about European aristocrats. Blame the French Revolution and German unification for much of that. A lot of the Nazis, as well as fascists in Italy, France, Hungary, and the UK, were from aristocratic backgrounds.

I'm of Lebanese heritage (and Muslim - please don't hate me for that). My friends tend to be of European or Middle Eastern background, but I have friends of other races too. Actually, most of my friends are not of Lebanese heritage - though my girlfriend is (although she's Christian, not Muslim).

Silais said:

In my opinion, we are just as racist as a country as we were fifty to one hundred years ago, it just isn't legal to do so any longer and thus we have shifted our discrimination away from the public eye or shield it within the confines of the law. We still disproportionately stop and frisk African Americans, we still considered Hispanics to be lazy and thieves, we still express scorn for the Native Americans. As white Americans, we have so many privileges and we simply do not realize it.

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For someone who based their entire argument off over generalizations in which you provided no examples or facts, you are quite confident.

I've just realized that I use a lot of racist stereotypes in my interacting with people. Not in the way like I've never realized it before, but it just occurred to me again. Hopefully he won't kill me for this, but a good example is how I discuss themes of "brownness" with Dipu. I do see our relationship in racial terms - it's something that matters in a way meaningful enough to be brought up in discussion more often than less. Furthermore, I incorrectly assumed the race of a member here due to his interests X)

The point I'm trying to bring up is: when do perpetuating stereotypes become harmful? When do you considering it "perpetuating" a stereotype? Is it okay if we're all friends at the end of the day?

Silais said:

I thought this information was common knowledge based on the high frequency of these stereotypes being portrayed in them media.

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You have to be extremely careful when getting your sources from the media. Like with the Zimmerman case, the media kept using a picture of Tray Von Martin from when he was fourteen. This made it seem as if Zimmerman had just killed a little kid. Actually, Martin was eighteen and a big, muscular dude. Easily capable of beating someone within an inch of their life if he really wanted to.

Another point on the media, the Zimmerman case made national headlines and was even commented on by the President of the United States of America. There was a story where a black male shot and killed a white high school student that never even made it passed the local news. Which, also brings me to another point.

Racism isn't just against non-whites anymore. In today's society, people are much more prone to react to racism when it's targeted towards a minority group. Especially when a white person says it. If a minority makes the same remark, hardly anyone notices. Don't worry, I have another example.

In the tv show "Criminal Minds", most of the criminals are shown as being white people. In fact, over half of the people arrested in similar crimes in the real world are black (not trying to sound racist here). No one really notices this because racism against whites is somewhat okay in today's society. I bet that if the show portrayed these statistics in their show, people would be all over how the show is racist.

I'm really not trying to sound racist here, but rather trying to bring up a point that not all racism is against the minorities and that the media can't always be trusted. I sure hope it came out that way.

Anyway, to answer BlahISuck's new question.

Stereotypes become harmful when they're used in a demeaning manner. Such as someone calling me an ignorant (enter explicit word here) just because I'm an American. Even when not meant to be insulting, you still have to be careful. You never know how someone is going to react.

People fear that which is different. I don't think this will really ever change. What can change, though, is how people react to those fears of theirs. It takes a brave person to admit when they are prejudiced against a certain group, but then make a genuine attempt to confront that prejudice.

BlahISuck said:

Furthermore, I incorrectly assumed the race of a member here due to his interests

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People where I live often assume your interests based on your race. There are people who are surprised that I act very "white". These people expect Lebanese Australians to be kind of ghetto.

I hate the idea that a person who isn't overly proud of their culture or its media is branded as a race traitor. For example, most of my friends (even the Anglo-Celtic ones) don't watch Neighbours or other Australian sitcoms/soap operas. It doesn't mean they're ashamed of being Australian. I even think American media tends to be better. However, I love living in Australia and think it's a great place. I'm Lebanese and most of my favourite singers are not of Lebanese heritage.

It's like expecting someone's favourite character in a work of fiction to be the same race, gender, religion, and phenotype as them. For example, my sister prefers Princess Aurora over Princess Jasmine, even though Jasmine is Middle Eastern like my sister, and that's perfectly normal. Would you expect all blond guys to like Draco Malfoy or all Chinese girls to like Chun-Li?

Racism is stupid.

That's interesting. I think Lebanese people are white. I think most Arabs are white. If you look white, you're white lol. It's interesting when the War on Terror was in its heights in the hearts and minds of the people, Arab wasn't considered white.

No, Arab was still considered White. It's just that "Muslim" was considered its own race.