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The American Politics Discussion Thread

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?
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We do have a national ID system, or at least something that can be used as one.

Our SS numbers. That is, right now, our version of a 'National ID'

Anyway, the reason why the Fed is trying to get voter regulation is because what happens in a single state can easily affect the Union as a whole. Elections are a prime example of a, supposed state issue, that can and will effect the entirety of the Union.

Well, some elections. I agree that for minor voting issues, such as a town electing a new mayor, really don't play that large a part to the nation. But voting for senators and congress members? And the president? Those are going to effect much more then just a state.

In those cases, Voter Fraud isn't a state issue. It's a national issue. And the Federal Government is, as is should be, trying solve the issue for the betterment of the nation.
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
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We do have a national ID system, or at least something that can be used as one.

Our SS numbers. That is, right now, our version of a 'National ID'

Anyway, the reason why the Fed is trying to get voter regulation is because what happens in a single state can easily affect the Union as a whole. Elections are a prime example of a, supposed state issue, that can and will effect the entirety of the Union.

Well, some elections. I agree that for minor voting issues, such as a town electing a new mayor, really don't play that large a part to the nation. But voting for senators and congress members? And the president? Those are going to effect much more then just a state.

In those cases, Voter Fraud isn't a state issue. It's a national issue. And the Federal Government is, as is should be, trying solve the issue for the betterment of the nation.

The representatives who are elected represent the states (or portions of the states in the House). They don't represent the federal government. As for the President, the people don't even elect the President. The states do that.
 

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?
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Yes, but they represent their state against other states. Congress and the Senate, while made up of people from each state, make decisions that effect the nation as a whole.

And if the people don't elect the President, why so much firestorm over the President/Republicans trying to 'supress' voters?
 

FreakyLocz14

Conservative Patriot
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Yes, but they represent their state against other states. Congress and the Senate, while made up of people from each state, make decisions that effect the nation as a whole.

And if the people don't elect the President, why so much firestorm over the President/Republicans trying to 'supress' voters?

The people actually elected temporary representatives who in turn elect the President. Nothing in the Constitution says that members of the Electoral College have to be directly elected. To quote the U.S. Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore, "There is not federal constitutional right to vote for electors for President of the United States".

And electing a man who wears magic underwear, and has been caught numerous times tax dodging it isn't a huge mistake? It took eight years for Bush to make the mess, and I think Obama deserves eight years to clean it up.

I didn't vote for Romney, so that's a moot point. Also, the mess that Obama inherited can be traced back way farther than Bush's eight years. Let's also not forget that the Democrats controlled Congress before and after Obama was first elected.
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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Freaky, Zet wasn't replying to you, so why are you talking about your voting record? It's KingCharizard that he was addressing.
 

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
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And electing a man who wears magic underwear, and has been caught numerous times tax dodging it isn't a huge mistake? It took eight years for Bush to make the mess, and I think Obama deserves eight years to clean it up.
It isn't all Bush y'know. Really, this problem's been developing for 30 years
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
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And electing a man who wears magic underwear, and has been caught numerous times tax dodging it isn't a huge mistake? It took eight years for Bush to make the mess, and I think Obama deserves eight years to clean it up.

First of all his "Magic Underwear" shouldn't have anything to do with anything, and if he was caught tax dodging why isn't he arrested? also he wouldn't have been allowed to run for office. They are accusations, and last time I check american courts still run by the rule innocent until proven guilty.

But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents. Also Bush did not make this problem, it was coming for a long time bush just threw gas on the fire.

Lastly Obama cant get anything done because most of congress and the senate doesn't approve of him and they will vote against him for that fact. So far Obama hasn't done anything for this country but bad things... He had atleast 4 years to do one thing good that would make a huge impact and yet he has done nothing....


Romeny was a business man and when your on the brink of going "Bankrupt" - for lack of a better word, you want a businessman who can make the hard decisions. Someone who will cut losses and stupid spending. Not someone who will continue to press for obama care, and waste money. Someone who wouldn't let China cheat us on our trade deals just because we owe them someone who will continue to push for the things we need, someone who wont show up on TV about twice a week, someone who wife wasn't on Sesame Street....

Obama is a celebrity, a good campaigner bad president.
Romney is a businessman, a horrible campaigner but a great president...

That is my opinion.
 

Mr. X

It's... kinda effective?
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Mitt Romney, intentionally, paid more taxes then he was legally required to.
He did this to ensure that he wouldn't pay under a tax rate, that he earlier said he never paid under.
He also said, that he doesn't think that a person who pays more then they have to in taxes shouldn't to be president.

Lets just ignore the rest of what he said, and focus on this. Mitt Romney admits that he shouldn't be President.

We can't blame Obama for the fact that the other parts of government refuse to work/comprimise with him. This isn't his fault.

Romney is invested in Chinese business, and his experience at Bain can easily be summed up as this - Outsourcing. I highly doubt that a person who's primary business experience is outsourcing will be able to make jobs. Sure, he can send them away, but not bring them back. He wouldn't have done **** about China, that was just a election promise in hopes of getting people to vote for him. And even if he planned on doing this, the end result would be us getting ****ed over as China makes a large amount of our items.

And lets not forget, that Mitt Romney created the frameworks for Obama Care. He says he hates it, but just look at everything else he has said and later went back on.
 
14,092
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First of all his "Magic Underwear" shouldn't have anything to do with anything, and if he was caught tax dodging why isn't he arrested? also he wouldn't have been allowed to run for office. They are accusations, and last time I check american courts still run by the rule innocent until proven guilty.

But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents. Also Bush did not make this problem, it was coming for a long time bush just threw gas on the fire.

Lastly Obama cant get anything done because most of congress and the senate doesn't approve of him and they will vote against him for that fact. So far Obama hasn't done anything for this country but bad things... He had atleast 4 years to do one thing good that would make a huge impact and yet he has done nothing....


Romeny was a business man and when your on the brink of going "Bankrupt" - for lack of a better word, you want a businessman who can make the hard decisions. Someone who will cut losses and stupid spending. Not someone who will continue to press for obama care, and waste money. Someone who wouldn't let China cheat us on our trade deals just because we owe them someone who will continue to push for the things we need, someone who wont show up on TV about twice a week, someone who wife wasn't on Sesame Street....

Obama is a celebrity, a good campaigner bad president.
Romney is a businessman, a horrible campaigner but a great president...

That is my opinion.

Your opinion is completely invalidated by the fact you played the "birther" card. Keep that garbage out of here.
 

TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
8,123
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19
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Romney is invested in Chinese business
Irrelevant. So is Obama, so am I, so is a heck of a lot of middle class people who have generic investment portfolios set up with their local bank branches as part of their retirement savings.

But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents.
But he did. Twice. Both the short-form and long-form certificates.
 

KingCharizard

C++ Developer Extraordinaire
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Your opinion is completely invalidated by the fact you played the "birther" card. Keep that garbage out of here.

Really? I cant expect to know if my president is a US citizen? And that doesn't invalidate everything I said just makes that point moot.

Secondly are you saying that as a mod or a person?

Third I didn't pull the card, I said Donald Trumph did, and I though it was selfish to not provide simple documents so a man can donate 5 million to charity, if someone asked to see my birth certificate so they could donate 5 million i would..

Irrelevant. So is Obama, so am I, so is a heck of a lot of middle class people who have generic investment portfolios set up with their local bank branches as part of their retirement savings.

Exactly Romney made a good business decisions. But that's all people say when it comes to romney, oh he is gonna outsource because he did that for his company, you dont know that.. that is an assumption. I'm done with this thread, it honestly seems no one understand the realties of keeping Obama in the white house, you'll see soon enough..
 

droomph

weeb
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Really? I cant expect to know if my president is a US citizen? And that doesn't invalidate everything I said just makes that point moot.
I think that he did, didn't he? But iirc all the other people who want to "prove" he's not american just ignored that and kept on saying "SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE BB" and that's what so annoying about it to Livewire I presume.
 

KingCharizard

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I think that he did, didn't he? But iirc all the other people who want to "prove" he's not american just ignored that and kept on saying "SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE BB" and that's what so annoying about it to Livewire I presume.

I never said he didn't and trumph wasn't asking for the birth certificate he was asking for he other docs

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/donald-trump-obama-college-five-million.html

As far as i know he never showed the docs...

my point was if someone asked for documents i knew i had to donate to charity i'd done it, even if it was for good publicity
 
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TRIFORCE89

Guide of Darkness
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Exactly Romney made a good business decisions. But that's all people say when it comes to romney, oh he is gonna outsource because he did that for his company, you dont know that.. that is an assumption. I'm done with this thread, it honestly seems no one understand the realties of keeping Obama in the white house, you'll see soon enough..
Well, it's something I never entirely bought into. A President does not directly create or cut jobs, unless they are public-sector jobs. For the private sector, they can put steps forward that would lead to one environment or another. Heavy regulations and taxation lead to outsourcing, which I don't think is something Romney would have done. Quite the opposite.

However, that doesn't mean I think Obama is going to have heavy regulations or taxation either. His approach seems mild and responsible, not heavy-handed.

The US was fine under Clinton-era taxation, so that level for the upper classes shouldn't be a problem. Besides which... we're talking about income tax here. Not corporate taxes. I don't know why people keep saying that by raising taxes on the rich, it effects business. Business are supposed to pay corporate taxes, no income taxes. Is this another strange byproduct of "corporations are people"?

I never said he didn't and trumph wasn't asking for the birth certificate he was asking for he other docs

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/donald-trump-obama-college-five-million.html

As far as i know he never showed the docs...
Well, for one thing... why negotiate with terrorists? :p Seriously. Basically Trump was extorting the President.

And secondly, he was kinda busy being the President during a hurricane.
 
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Ivysaur

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If you think that birth certificates backed by the state of Hawaii aren't good enough evidence that a person was born in the US, nothing will. What does a Passport prove? Nothing!! I mean, you could get an US passport by acquiring citizenship later into your life, without having to be born in the US on the first place, which is the requirement for becoming president. Thus, president Obama has shown the birth records that prove that he was born in the US- the only thing the law requires. You aren't required to "have studied in the US", so his college records don't mean a thing either. So if the documents proving that he meets the ONLY requirement to be President aren't enough evidence that he is 100% legitimate, I don't know what will prove them.

At this point Trump is only asking for phone bills and random stuff so he can scream "Aha! He isn't showing absolutely pointless and irrelevant documents that prove nothing about anything! THERE MUST BE SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT HIM!" so the Fox News tribe can feel good about themselves.
 

KingCharizard

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If you think that birth certificates backed by the state of Hawaii aren't good enough evidence that a person was born in the US, nothing will. What does a Passport prove? Nothing!! I mean, you could get an US passport by acquiring citizenship later into your life, without having to be born in the US on the first place, which is the requirement for becoming president. Thus, president Obama has shown the birth records that prove that he was born in the US- the only thing the law requires. You aren't required to "have studied in the US", so his college records don't mean a thing either. So if the documents proving that he meets the ONLY requirement to be President aren't enough evidence that he is 100% legitimate, I don't know what will prove them.

At this point Trump is only asking for phone bills and random stuff so he can scream "Aha! He isn't showing absolutely pointless and irrelevant documents that prove nothing about anything! THERE MUST BE SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT HIM!" so the Fox News tribe can feel good about themselves.

The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.

But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as his tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.
 
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Ivysaur

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The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.

But what's the point of showing those? It's a "don't enter their game, ignore them" kind of thing. He showed the only certificate he's legally bound to have. And yet now Trump and the "birthers" are asking for random pointless stuff that might intrude his privacy- like college records. And, if he shows them, they'll ask for his elementary school grades and his medical records or his phone bills or anything else you can think of claiming that failure to produce them would somehow invalidate his birth certificate. It's pointless. I'd rather donate the money myself, privately, and ignore those guys.

And what does "siding with him" mean, anyway? Because if you want to know whether your president is American or not, I can direct you to his birth certificate- the only document that can prove where he was born, and which he showed long ago.
 

KingCharizard

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And what does "siding with him" mean, anyway? Because if you want to know whether your president is American or not, I can direct you to his birth certificate- the only document that can prove where he was born, and which he showed long ago.

Meaning I wanted him to show the requested docs, I see your point about him showing them, once you give in people will try to milk everything out of you, but I dont see the harm in showing the docs once and telling them no more, They wont get anything else...
 

Oryx

CoquettishCat
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The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.

He already showed his birth certificate. What else do you want him to show to 'prove himself'? In reality, what you should be thinking is "why is Trump holding this 5 million hostage when he could donate it to charity?" If he wanted to donate money to charity, nothing's stopping him. But he's choosing not to, because he didn't get his way. And he's the charitable one?

Edit: Until Trump offers another 5 million for his baby book. Then you'll be back to "OBAMA SHOULD JUST DO WHAT THE RICH PEOPLE WANT".

But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as hit tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.

His business decisions are what he was running on, basically. His logic was "I was great at my business, so I'll be great at AMERICA". Nevermind that businesses and countries are run in incredibly different ways. Nevermind that his success in business came from outsourcing jobs, when he wanted to argue that he'll create jobs in America as President. What economic plan do you think he had that would have been good for America? Details, please. With sources. If you're such a big supporter I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to outline what he actually was planning on doing to help the economy, right? :)

Edit: And there are issues beyond the economic, which are important to different people.
 
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