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Old 4 Weeks Ago (2:46 PM).
LDSman LDSman is offline
     
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    LDS, let me put it this way. I've seen so many horrible stories on the news these days about cops beating up pre-teens, and even worse replies from folks siding with the cops.

    Recorded footage is aired of a cop beating up a female 12-year-old student half his size. Comments call the kid a hooligan and say the cop was justified. Course, all the "hooligan" did was act rowdy in class, and rather than give her detention, the teacher has the cop beat her up.

    A cop is recorded on tape at a kid's birthday pool-party, using mace on a kid. Again, the cop is justified, and the "hoodlums" are to blame. Yeah, there house and all they did - maybe - was make too much noise, but it's their fault.

    It's like Rodney King with children.

    Are we such barbarians that this has become acceptable? Each time I asked, "WTF? Why is this an issue? Police who beat up kids are bullies and dirty cops who should be stripped of their badges and fired, end of story!"

    What has America become? I ask you that. We used to be better than this. The flag is NOT more important than a child's well-being. End of story.
    Beating up pre-teens? Problem with some of these videos is you only get part of the story. That 12 yr old, swung on the cop and got dropped for it. Minimal injuries but the media and you call it her getting beat up.
    Teachers don’t get to tell the cops to “beat up” students. You try removing what could be a full grown teen from a class when they don’t want to leave. You don’t want cops following their training for non compliant individuals then remove them from schools. Of course that means that teachers will get hurt when a bad student attacks them.

    Rodney King is a bad example. He was high on PCP and kept getting up to fight the cops.
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    Old 4 Weeks Ago (3:25 PM).
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    LDS Man, do you have kids?

    If you do, is this truly your idea of "discipline"?
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    Old 4 Weeks Ago (3:34 PM).
    LDSman LDSman is offline
       
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
      LDS Man, do you have kids?

      If you do, is this truly your idea of "discipline"?
      Question 1 is none of your business. And question 2 is not relevant.

      Here’s a question for you.

      How would you handle a middle school student who refuses to comply with the teacher? High school student? One who disrupts class vs one who doesn’t. And not just about this incident but in general. Nothing whatsoever to do with the pledge of allegiance.
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      Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:08 PM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by Maedar.
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      Quote:
      How would you handle a middle school student who refuses to comply with the teacher? High school student? One who disrupts class vs one who doesn’t.
      That is a no-brainer. I'd give him detention and call his parents, plus probation if it became a continuing and/or serious issue. I'd also have him speak to the guidance councilor.

      If it started happening on a regular basis, I'd consult the principal and/or dean of students, seeing as that is their jurisdiction, and do not have further authority.

      Only if he was a danger to others or himself would I consider legal or psychiatric intervention.
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        #55   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
      Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:17 PM).
      EnglishALT EnglishALT is online now
         
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        While it’s not exactly similar as the pledge, here in Japan, children must stand and bow at the start and finish of every class. While the vast majority of the time this is not a problem, on some occasions children have refused to do so. Atleast twice I have seen an adult teacher grab a child by the arm and physically throw them out of their chair for refusing to do this.
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        Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:20 PM).
        LDSman LDSman is offline
           
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
          That is a no-brainer. I'd give him detention and call his parents, plus probation if it became a continuing and/or serious issue. I'd also have him speak to the guidance councilor.

          If it started happening on a regular basis, I'd consult the principal and/or dean of students, seeing as that is their jurisdiction, and do not have further authority.

          Only if he was a danger to others or himself would I consider legal or psychiatric intervention.
          All things that happen after you get them under control and out of the classroom and only work if they choose to comply. How do you get someone under control and out of the classroom so the other things happen? What are the teachers supposed to do if they believe the student is an immediate danger or the student just wants to disrupt class and refuses to leave the room?
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          Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:24 PM).
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          LDS Man, a teacher who cannot escort a child to the principal's office should not be teaching. Plain and simple.
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          Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:29 PM).
          EnglishALT EnglishALT is online now
             
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
            LDS Man, a teacher who cannot escort a child to the principal's office should not be teaching. Plain and simple.
            It is not always that simple, children beyond the 4th grade are usually strong enough to hurt an adult if they want to, and when you get into middle and high school, students have been known to assault teachers.

            https://japantoday.com/category/national/principal-of-school-where-student-attacked-teacher-criticized-for-half-hearted-apology
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            Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:32 PM).
            LDSman LDSman is offline
               
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
              While it’s not exactly similar as the pledge, here in Japan, children must stand and bow at the start and finish of every class. While the vast majority of the time this is not a problem, on some occasions children have refused to do so. Atleast twice I have seen an adult teacher grab a child by the arm and physically throw them out of their chair for refusing to do this.
              Isn’t that about showing respect to the teachers?
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
              LDS Man, a teacher who cannot escort a child to the principal's office should not be teaching. Plain and simple.
              “Escort”. Implies cooperation where none may be.

              So no old teachers, no small teachers, no handicapped teachers. Only strong, fit, large teachers?
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              Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:32 PM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by Maedar.
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              One, that is Japan. Two, the story focuses on an apology from the principal.

              Three, these incidents are exceptions, not the rule.

              A teacher worthy of his certificate has taken enough child psychology and ethics classes to control a room full of students. And viewing them all as potential thugs only worsens it.

              Edit: LDS, I remember my first grade teacher was a 72 year old woman, and she could make the fifth grade students cower simply by raising her tone.

              NOBODY messed with her, and that included the PTA.

              (That last part was a joke I heard about some years later, but it was hardly surprising.)
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              Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:41 PM).
              LDSman LDSman is offline
                 
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                One, that is Japan. Two, the story focuses on an apology from the principal.

                Three, these incidents are exceptions, not the rule.

                A teacher worthy of his certificate has taken enough child psychology and ethics classes to control a room full of students. And viewing them all as potential thugs only worsens it.
                You’ve never been in a classroom that was hostile to the teacher or had thugs in it. Ethic classes and psychology don’t work as well as you hope.

                https://www.apa.org/education/k12/teacher-victimization

                APA considers it a serious problem.
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                Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:47 PM).
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                LDS, read the 4th slide of the article you just posted. I agree with that one completely. The 5th and 6th are good too.
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                Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:57 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                  LDS, read the 4th slide of the article you just posted. I agree with that one completely. The 5th and 6th are good too.
                  I wonder how many of those injured teachers tried those “tips”.

                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/04/21/students-attacked-threatened-thousands-of-school-employees-last-year/amp/

                  This older woman got beat up.

                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HQYmE40dl9A
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                  Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:58 PM).
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                  YOU provided the link, I didn't.
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                  Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:00 PM).
                  LDSman LDSman is offline
                     
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                    YOU provided the link, I didn't.
                    Out of all the data and links, you stopped at the short slideshow?
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                    Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:17 PM). Edited 4 Weeks Ago by Maedar.
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                    I saw the rest. Unfortunately, I agree that it is accurate. See, both my parents are teachers, as is my brother and sister-in-law, and I worked as a substitute, and I can honestly tell you, my family has seen quite a few students like this. Bullies who assault other students are even worse.

                    What is your solution? Corporal punishment? Arming teachers? Turning schools into jails? No teachers I know nor any my family knows would approve of such methods. We all agree that violence against students is the LAST resort to take, never the first.

                    You may think being "tough" with students will convince them to comply, but it does not. It only makes them worse. I may be wrong, yes, the "nature versus nurture" concepts have been debated in child psychology for decades, with no concrete solutions. But all my life I've stood by the "nurture" path, and in the end, I have viewed it as successful.

                    You may think the Bible says "spare the rod, spoil the child". It does not. The infamous quote was made by Samuel Butler. Closest the Bible comes is "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves [his son] is careful to discipline him." (Proverb 13:24)

                    But before you say "that means the same thing", it does not. Given the number of shepherd/sheep metaphors in the Good Book people often misinterpret what it means to use "the rod." Shepherds never hit sheep with a rod; rather, they use it to steer the flock in the direction they want the sheep to go. Watch The Ten Commandments with this in mind. Yvonne DeCarlo is shown guiding sheep to the well with soft "drrr, drr" sounds and pushing them with the side of her staff. Western civilization tends to equate "discipline" with "punishment". In truth, they are two different concept.

                    I do know one thing the Bible says:

                    "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

                    - Matthew 19:14

                    I'll end tonight with that.
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                    Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:42 PM).
                    LDSman LDSman is offline
                       
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                      So back tracking a bit. What is a teacher supposed to do when students won’t comply?
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                      Old 4 Weeks Ago (5:45 PM).
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                      I already gave you my opinion, LDS, and I wholeheartedly believe it works.

                      If you don't agree, you're welcome to your own opinions. Please respect mine.
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                      Old 4 Weeks Ago (4:57 AM).
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                      This has gotten rather off topic/derailed and I think that most people have said what they were going to say on this matter, so I think I'll just lock this thread.

                      If anyone wants to continue to talk about the original topic, feel free to make a new thread, but try to stay on-topic next time, ok?
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