ROM Hacking Discussion General discussions about all things fan games. Topics relating to both ROM hacks and custom games are welcome here. Posting links to ROMs is illegal and is not tolerated anywhere on the forum.

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  #26   Link to this post, but load the entire thread.  
Old April 19th, 2018 (7:10 PM). Edited April 19th, 2018 by 00.Archer.
00.Archer 00.Archer is offline
     
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ResidentEcruteak View Post
    I hope I'm not too blunt here, but honestly...

    building a game out of a massive amount of content within copyrighted IP that it's creator never has given (and probably never will give) permission to use for adapting it to personal projects and sharing the derived work, all this despite of repeated objections of the original creator of the IP for it's unauthorized use, and then feeling bad for the idea of sharing the tiny input he/she added to the game along with the IP...

    I'm sure it's hard work creating fakemon or any content of your own into a fangame, but I really feel that even in the more larger projects the amount of original content is most of the time trivial compared to the IP - pokemon franchise - that everyone is using. Not wanting to despise anyone's hard work, but I was surprised no one had raised this point yet. (Also sorry for a long sentence)

    But to end this post positively: do it, share your work, for good ideas are worth sharing :)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ResidentEcruteak View Post
    My concern with my post was that the Gamefreak staff are no less artists than fans that create fakemons. So, if people take the official work and use it without permission why would a fakemon artists be offended or surprised if a fakemon they add to fangame etc. gets used without permission? I think, ironically, that someone using your work without permission is, in a way, a mark of that work's greatness as no one would not care about it if it wasn't any good - it's not of course respectful towards the artist to act against his/hers will, but still...

    And so what if Gamefreak staff is paid for their work? Is, for example, Kenji Sugimori's work with creating all the 800+ original pokemon designs - which we all love and are inspired by - over the course of 20 or so years, less valuable because he got paid for it? It doesn't matter if he agreed to effectively sell his rights to the work by doing it for the company; it is simply what he, as an artist, agreed to do - it is his terms of use.

    However, if his and Gamefreak's, for which he worked for, wishes are not heeded regarding the use of the official work, then again why a fakemon artist - or creator of any fan content - would try to, as someone said, horde all the work for him/herself? Yes, your work is dear to you and you don't want it to be misused, but I'm pretty sure that the official artist and rest of the Gamefreak staff feel the same way.

    Simply put, it's not fair to use someone's work without permission or affiliate with a project doing it and then demand the very rights to yourself that you took away or helped took away from someone.

    I know it's tricky; we all would like to build on what we grew up with, but we will likely never get permission for it. I was also interested to make fangame with fakemons and all of my own, but in the end I could not find honest way to do it and respect the wishes of those people who gave all these good childhood memories. So, I dropped it and started to sough ways make completely original game idea which was still "inspired" by pokemon - I just wish more people would do it this way. All those great fakemons for example could be creatures of their own right in a world where there is no conflict with an existing IP...


    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult anyone :( I just made a point: something that single fan adds to fangame is small compared to the pokemon franchise/phenomenom as whole (i.e not fakemons compared to rom hacking).
    These 2 posts represent my view perfectly.

    Give people freedom to use. There is no way that limiting the use of an asset you made will benefit the end user of that asset - in this case, the player.

    As long as you're not claiming to have created something you didn't, then it's all fair game to me. And guess what - this is exactly what copyright laws were originally made for.
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    Old April 24th, 2018 (10:28 AM).
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    Chillywray Chillywray is offline
       
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      Where would you share them if you had some.

      I'd be willing to share fakemon sprites so long as I was able to play the game they was used in.
      :)
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      Old May 16th, 2018 (3:02 AM).
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      Yotes Yotes is offline
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        It'd be a wicked cool collab. Imagine an ultimate fan dex with the best of the best fakemon and credits out to their creators and projects of origin.
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        Old June 7th, 2018 (2:27 AM). Edited June 7th, 2018 by Chris_P.
        Chris_P Chris_P is offline
           
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          I feel like once you put your creations on the internet, it is unrealistic to assume you can moderate how they are used effectively. They are out there for anyone to steal, whether you like it or not. Stealing is of course terrible, since it is manipulative and shows disrespect, but it is what it is.

          And on the other hand, just as it's been said before in this thread, in the same way that you were inspired by the official pokemon franchise and wanted to toy with it and add your own spin, others will want to do the same inspired by your creations under that brand name, and, well, isn't that the point of creativity and sharing?

          In an ideal world, everything would be open and everyone would be crediting their sources properly and I believe that we would all benefit collectively and individually from such conditions. In my opinion!

          I'd rather show goodwill and openly state that my creations are free to use in hope people will in return have the goodwill to credit me, instead of telling people "look at what I did with the material someone else created, but don't you dare do the same with mine." It just... doesn't work.

          edit: It is of course a different case if someone is profiting financially from your work or if you do have financial benefits from the work you are doing and that's why you want to protect it. But making money off a brand that does not belong to you and that you do not work for is problematic in the first place, and another kind of stealing in and of itself.
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          Old August 24th, 2018 (4:31 PM).
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          Urrr Urrr is offline
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            In the end this all comes down to honor and how you want to be viewed in the community.

            Legally, as a Fakemon creator, you could do nothing. Someone could go out their and "steal" every fakemon out of every popular fan-game and you could do nothing to him/her in court.

            1. You don't even know who you had to sue. The person "stealing" the spirtes is anonymous.
            2. Even if you knew the person, he most likely comes from a different country, with different laws. You are a private person, let's say from the US and want to sue someone from Poland? Better do in the polish justice system, otherwise even if you came through with your ridiculous lawsuit, it might not be recognized in the other country.
            3. You are creating something that is already in a legal gray area because you are calling them Fakemon, an obvious alteration of an existing franchise under which you already only allowed to exist thorugh fair use. Even more so, when these sprites are already part of a existing fangame. Good luck finding a lawyer for such a case.
            4. Even if the stars aligned and it comes to a lawsuit, what are your chances to win? The amount of money you would have to pump into this, just to get to this point is in no relation to your chances to win.

            So in the end, all that prevents someone from "stealing" your content is their own honor and how they are viewed in the community.
            You could of course decide you don't want to make your work public to prevent this, but hey, are you then even a content creator anymore?
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            Old August 27th, 2018 (2:04 AM).
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            Marin Marin is offline
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            I'd say something that also prevents stealing content, is that they and their game wouldn't be allowed on PokéCommunity (or any other fangame/hack community with moderation)
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            Old August 28th, 2018 (12:48 PM).
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            Weter 23 Weter 23 is offline
               
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              I'm actually currently working on a fan game with Fakemon from other games. I feel like the variety of Fakemon would make an interesting concept. Of absolute course, there'd be no way I'd use Fakemon without their creator's permission and credit. Not every creator I've asked has said yes, which I can respect, because different people have different opinions. As a Fakemon creator myself, I'm fine with people using my designs, as long as they ask first and credit me. It's different for everyone, and although the concept sounds cool to share designs, the choice is ultimately up to the creator.
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              Old August 30th, 2018 (4:04 PM).
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              Fairy Fairy is offline
               
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              So I responded to this thread a year ago but I'd like to amend my statement:

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Fairy
              As a fakemon artist - and I want to explicitly state that this is my own opinion and not necessarily reflected by any other artist - I always felt it was part of my duty as a Pokemon fan to make my art available to game devs in an effort to strengthen the custom game / artistic pokemon community. So long as I am personally asked for my permission, appropriate credit is given, and no one profits from my art, I really can't see a good reason for me personally to horde fakemon to myself. Art is meant to be shared and enjoyed, after all! It allows for more creativity to be spread throughout the community!

              At the same time though, I can completely understand why some artists choose to be protective of their sprites. Often times people do steal their hard work or withhold credit, and as a result the artist is all but invisible compared to the irresponsible dev. Maybe the artist has exclusive loyalties to a dev who is a close friend? And others still are justifiable jaded. You enter a weird grey area of usage rights when you're editing another company's intellectual property.
              At the end of the day, no one can stop another person from using their art without permission. It's just a consequence of putting your content on the internet. However, I think we can all agree that it is good etiquette to get permission and credit the artist. But there is no legal recourse in this case for "reclaiming" your artwork, like Urrr said. It's just not possible. The best that can be done is to try to convince other people not to download the hack.

              I still believe that sharing your fakemon should be done despite the possibility of someone stealing it. Part of being a reasonable artist online is recognizing that you're helpless to prevent every person from doing whatever they want with your work. Keep creating, keep posting, and keep doing the artwork that makes you happy.
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              Old August 30th, 2018 (10:31 PM).
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              Logan Logan is offline
               
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              People have asked me if they could use fakemon from Sienna in the past and I've always said yes, however I've never seen those games come to fruition :P
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              Old January 21st, 2019 (12:21 AM).
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              riles riles is offline
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                I am strictly against sharing fakemon with strangers! Using someone else's fakemon in your game is a CRIME! All such offenders need to be PUNISHED! If anyone tries to use my fakemons, or any of my custom assets, I'll see them in Kangaroo Court! i"ll suuuuuuuue them to their last penny!!

                P.S.: I don't have any fakemon or custom assets designed yet ;) ;)
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