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Old 4 Weeks Ago (6:22 AM).
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So, I'll gear this mostly towards the US since that's we're most of our userbase is from but feel free to discuss other countries as well.

How much influence over the government does the Christian church (or other majority religion) have? Is it a problem? In what ways? If it is a problem, what can be done about it in the short and long term?
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Old 6 Days Ago (10:26 AM). Edited 6 Days Ago by Maedar.
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Simple:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Anything that deviates from that is a problem. End of story.
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Old 6 Days Ago (12:08 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
Simple:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Anything that deviates from that is a problem. End of story.
I agree but I feel like you're not answering a lot of what I asked here.
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Old 6 Days Ago (1:21 PM). Edited 6 Days Ago by LDSman.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
    So, I'll gear this mostly towards the US since that's we're most of our userbase is from but feel free to discuss other countries as well.

    How much influence over the government does the Christian church (or other majority religion) have?
    Not as much as some hope or some fear. There are so many different denominations of Christian out there and they don't agree with each other.

    Quote:
    Is it a problem?
    Hard to say. The gov't is supposed to reflect the desires of the voters. If your campaign has you elected by appealing to the local Christians, then you should be following what they want as long as it complies with the Constitution. Can have drawbacks. Look at Scientology and Clearwater, FL. Clear abuses there.

    Quote:
    In what ways? If it is a problem, what can be done about it in the short and long term?
    Part of the problem is people applying their "morals" to others. And that's a problem for all groups, religious or not. Not sure if there is a solution.

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    Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
    Simple:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    Anything that deviates from that is a problem. End of story.
    And yet people try to create laws prohibiting people from practicing their religious, dietary habits (kosher meat), decorating how they want, and from saying things that can be considered insulting to certain religions. And that doesn't even consider the various things the hardcore atheists try. Freedom of religion doesn't equal being free from ever hearing or seeing anything religious.
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    Old 6 Days Ago (5:54 PM).
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    LDSMan, it clearly says, "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

    I oppose ALL laws that you mentioned, and I oppose the folks - like Trump and most folks on Fox News - trying to do so.
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    Old 6 Days Ago (7:08 PM).
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      Faith shouldn't be something that directs public policy. I'm not sure about the laws in my state, but in many states you can use religion to put your kid through Gay Conversion Therapy (which doesn't work) and not use modern medicine such as vaccines (I understand if a kid can't be vaccinated due to age or medical issues).
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      Old 6 Days Ago (7:23 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
        LDSMan, it clearly says, "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

        I oppose ALL laws that you mentioned, and I oppose the folks - like Trump and most folks on Fox News - trying to do so.
        Note it isn’t just Trunp or Fox that are trying to push religious or anti religious laws or engaging in religious litmus tests.

        Kamala Harris’ questioning about the Knights of Columbus to a nominee to a district court position can be considered a violation of church and state, and a clear violation of not applying a person’s religion to their consideration for a government position.

        https://freebeacon.com/columns/the-outrageous-assault-on-the-knights-of-columbus/

        The same could be said for Diane Feinstein saying “The dogma lives loudly within you” to Judge Barrett when considering her for the 7th circuit court of appeals.

        http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2017-09-11/feinstein-s-anti-catholic-questions-are-an-outrage
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        Old 6 Days Ago (7:33 PM).
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          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
          LDSMan, it clearly says, "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

          I oppose ALL laws that you mentioned, and I oppose the folks - like Trump and most folks on Fox News - trying to do so.
          Dude you really got to get over the republican hate and look at the antiChristian bias from the Dems.
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          Old 6 Days Ago (7:48 PM).
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          There is no specific or direct influence on government from any particular church, denomination, religious group, etc in the US, because of separation of church and state. However, there are private Christian groups that can lobby legislatures. Christian voters influence politics through voting and participating in campaigns. Politicians themselves may be Christian. I would say there is a lot of informal bias, but very little to no formal bias if that makes sense. Whether that is problematic, it depends how you view things. All of these practices are totally legal and just a part of democracy where any citizen can vote and express his or her's values. But that means that certain things, such as previous bans on gay marriage, can find their way into public policy. Simply because I am a Christian, its hard for me to say that this is a very bad thing on the whole (at least in modern times and with some exceptions like gay marriage, which I think should be legal).
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          Old 5 Days Ago (6:11 AM).
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          Quote:
          Dude you really got to get over the republican hate and look at the antiChristian bias from the Dems.
          Examples, please?

          And don't give me the garbage Trump spouted the other day about Democrats being anti-Semitic. There are 36 Jews in Congress and all but 2 of them are Democrats,
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          Old 5 Days Ago (6:49 AM).
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            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
            Examples, please?

            And don't give me the garbage Trump spouted the other day about Democrats being anti-Semitic. There are 36 Jews in Congress and all but 2 of them are Democrats,
            See Englishalt post for two examples. Dems do that a lot. Dems even demand that Christian college groups allow leadership that isn’t Christian. Trying to force Christians to do things against their beliefs like provide contraception or support gay weddings. Etc.
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            Old 5 Days Ago (7:04 AM).
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            Can we not make this a partisan debate? This isn't a thread about republicans or democrats and their political war.
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            Old 5 Days Ago (8:14 AM). Edited 5 Days Ago by LDSman.
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              Quote:
              Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
              Can we not make this a partisan debate? This isn't a thread about republicans or democrats and their political war.
              It does show that the religious influence is far less than some people think.
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              Old 5 Days Ago (11:51 AM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
                Dude you really got to get over the republican hate and look at the antiChristian bias from the Dems.
                You know that a majority of people in the US (including Democrats and/or Liberals) are Christian, right?
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                Old 5 Days Ago (12:10 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by gimmepie View Post
                  Can we not make this a partisan debate? This isn't a thread about republicans or democrats and their political war.
                  To get back on topic how do you feel about a church endorsing political candidates, should they be able to weld any kind of political influence with its members? At the same time should political candidates appear at church services and give speeches?
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                  Old 5 Days Ago (12:23 PM).
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                  Quote:
                  To get back on topic how do you feel about a church endorsing political candidates, should they be able to weld any kind of political influence with its members? At the same time should political candidates appear at church services and give speeches?
                  How do I feel about it?

                  It's an unethical and anti-American practice, a blight on what this country stands for.

                  Why? Because:

                  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

                  Simple as that.
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                  Old 5 Days Ago (12:31 PM).
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                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                    How do I feel about it?

                    It's an unethical and anti-American practice, a blight on what this country stands for.

                    Why? Because:

                    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

                    Simple as that.
                    What part of that is considered “making a law”? Furthermore not all political candidates are members of Congress. We see Presidential candidates show up to churches and make speeches all the time during an election season.
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                    Old 5 Days Ago (3:11 PM).
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                    IC

                    And what is your opinion on this?

                    https://www.rawstory.com/2019/03/devos-opens-door-taxpayers-funding-religious-orgs-stopping-enforcement-church-state-separation-rule/?utm_source=push_notifications

                    THAT is "making a law" in my book.
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                    Old 5 Days Ago (6:56 PM).
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                      Quote:
                      Originally Posted by TheGhostHunter View Post
                      You know that a majority of people in the US (including Democrats and/or Liberals) are Christian, right?
                      Thats what people say and yet there are still issues.

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                      Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                      That not making a law. That’s pointing out that you can’t deny services, like updating school/daycare playgrounds simply because the building happens to be a church.

                      Quote:
                      The Washington Post adds, “school districts are now open to contract with religious organizations,” although “the services they provide must be ‘secular, neutral and non-ideological.'”
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                      Old 4 Days Ago (6:29 AM).
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                      Please LDS Man, explain to me why non-Christians should have to pay taxes for a Christian institution, which is itself tax-exempt.
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                      Old 4 Days Ago (7:04 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by LDSman.
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                        Quote:
                        Originally Posted by Maedar View Post
                        Please LDS Man, explain to me why non-Christians should have to pay taxes for a Christian institution, which is itself tax-exempt.
                        Yeah, that’s not what was happening. Christians and non-Christians all pay taxes. All groups should have access to programs aimed at the general public. The case was about updating the playground the kids use to be safer. Not to fund proselytizing of the general public. Don’t you want kids to be safe??? (Humor)

                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Lutheran_Church_of_Columbia,_Inc._v._Comer

                        Anyway. It didn’t endorse religion.

                        Edit:
                        Quote:
                        Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
                        Honestly I think some people have taken this further than it was meant to go. Attacking war memorials for being crosses or attacking govt employees who decorate for Christmas.
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                        Old 4 Days Ago (8:29 AM).
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                        Quote:
                        Honestly I think some people have taken this further than it was meant to go. Attacking war memorials for being crosses or attacking govt employees who decorate for Christmas.
                        Okay, I will admit that folks who do THAT go a little too far.
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                        Old 4 Days Ago (9:08 AM).
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                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
                          Thats what people say and yet there are still issues.


                          That not making a law. That’s pointing out that you can’t deny services, like updating school/daycare playgrounds simply because the building happens to be a church.
                          Please go on about the issues that the majority of the US population face.
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                          Old 4 Days Ago (10:05 AM). Edited 4 Days Ago by TailsMK4.
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                            Yes, there shouldn't be a single religion that dictates how the government should respond, but what's also wrong is if the government tries to impose rules that cause problems for people that follow religion. The first amendment, which I will quote here:

                            "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

                            One of the main reasons the US was formed in the first place was because the settlers didn't want to subject themselves to the primary religion Great Britain was practicing at the time, which was Roman Catholicism, and to instead have more of an open mind as to the various aspects of life. So the US was built on the concept that religion was not to be enforced in government. While God is mentioned in various documents, the Founding Fathers looked to Him as part of how they treated others (so while Christianity is not being played out as a primary religion, God's name is preserved mainly for historical reasons, and to remove any references to him means to go against what the Founding Fathers had intended for this country, although the current government, especially the House, is having many Founding Fathers turning in their graves even now), and it is through that viewpoint that this country allows anyone of any religion to come and be prosperous while not being persecuted for their belief.

                            What the liberal media will not tell you is that there have been MANY attacks on Christianity in particular, especially in schools. And do you think we're bad people if we try to fight back against these so-called "rules"? There have been many attacks on Muslims as well, and probably out of fear because of 9/11. The recent comments against Jews also has my attention, and who knows what other religions have also been brutally attacked against (I know here in Texas for a short time there were some smaller religions that had hate crimes committed against them). This is not about prohibiting any religion from being law in the US, but there are attacks to prohibit some religions from being practiced, and that is a violation of the First Amendment. The reason conservatives tend to also get mixed in is because a majority of the Christians are conservatives, and their freedom of speech is being attacked as well by the other side.

                            TL;DR, I am not saying that Christianity should be the main religion, as that goes against the ideals of how this country was founded. My problem is that especially those on the far-left are breaking the First Amendment by trying to impede or even silence people of religion. I know there's problem people on the far-right as well, but the majority of the attacks I've heard about have come from liberals or socialists.
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                            Old 4 Days Ago (10:14 AM).
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                              Quote:
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                              Please go on about the issues that the majority of the US population face.
                              This is just going to generate one of those nit picky “but it doesn’t affect ALL Christians” arguments.

                              These things, to me anyway, are issues that affect all Christians whether or not all Christians agree with the issue at hand. Each item gives some group, govt or other, the ability to determine how Christians, individual or otherwise, express their faith. Note, I am not expressing my veiwpoint on these matters.

                              1. Senators demanding to know what nominees think about specific religious groups stances on thinks. Perilously close to litmus tests.
                              2. Trying to force bakers, florists, wedding coordinators, wedding location owners to support gay marriage or be shut down. Also while ignoring other religions that refuse to support gay weddings.
                              3. Kicking Christian groups off campus
                              4. Demanding Christian groups allow non Christians become leaders of said group.
                              5. Demanding groups allow female or trans leaders/priests/ministers
                              6. Demand Christians remove bibles and other Christian religious items from university chapel.
                              7. Demand Christian colleges or universities change their code of conduct to allow whatever

                              Based on this, it doesn’t appear that the Christian religion has a lot of influence.
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